Should we put our faith in the youth?

[The only place to be 11,313]

It's because you're asking to prove a negative. You can't prove readiness one way or another until he plays but the same is true of a player who plays for the third division in Scotland or me. How can you prove that I'm not good enough to start for Chelsea without me playing for Chelsea? (and falling over in a heap after 3 minutes) I will say this.

1) The jump from the Championship to the Premier League is enormous. If a player looked poised in say the Polish or Slovakian league, would you say he's shown he's good enough for Chelsea? Of course not.

2) The record of players coming from the Championship to the Premier League is poor.

3) Being good even great in the Championship is no guarantee of even being decent in the Premier League. Of all the 7 players to win the Championship player of the year , not one is currently on a top-5 club and 3 aren't even in the Premier League and 1 isn't even in football. Those are the very best of the best of the Championship players. Those were players performing at a higher level than Chalobah is now and with more experience and they still have a very poor record of performance.

4) The record for teenagers having as positive impact in the Premier League is very poor and it's even poorer at top clubs.

So, no, it's not possible to prove that he's not ready, just that the chances of him being good enough for Chelsea right now are slim, the likelihood of his making an impact at Chelsea if he got the chance is doubtful, and that both he and the club would be better served going on loan to a Premier League club.

Why don't I want him to fight for a spot? Because it's pointless. The best player in our pre-season was probably Marin who has been maybe the worst player during our regular season. Looking good on a tour of America or Asia is meaningless because you're facing different quality and your top players are more interested in getting into game-shape than in trying to impress.

You haven't really referred to any of his qualities, attributes or virtues when saying he isn't ready.

Have you seen him play?

[Rmpr 8,977]

This kid loves Chelsea and he's proven he's good enough for the Premier League. Why don't we give him a shot rather than buying a 26 year old to put in his way? I know there's plenty of fans who love everything about this guy and I'm one of them. I'd rather we sell him then treat him like this.

I am not 100% positive on my wish to loan him if we get UCL, but I dont see it doing that much damage to him. I mean, Cavani and Ba would be temporarily, since Ba is 'old' and injury prone and maybe we even start using 2 strikers, so buying Cavani is not as crazy as it sounds. Loaning him for just one more year might be a good option.

Also, Cavani/Lukaku in the future will be so deadly, wow!

Could do, or we could actually use him in the first team. This kid has something special and I'd probably agree with you if I hadn't seen him play so many times. Finding the right loan for him would be very tough.

I must admit i have only seen him playing 3-4 times, but what worries me is that his body is not ready to take on the Premier League. If he prefers a Marin role for the next year or so, I see no problem. if he wants to play, then we must loan Feruz.

I do agree it will be hard to find a good team for him...

He's done better than I expected at Malaga. It's early days but if we can get rid of Marin then I'd include him in the squad.

I would include him if we are out of UCL. However, I absolutely think Moses and Hazard are not enough (not in quality) for a strong run in both the English League and Champions League. Gaitan or Rodriguez would do really well on our team, seriously. They provide good width, dribling and crossing ability and they know how to defend.

Nailed on for a spot next year.

Yes!

Sadly I agree. He needs at least two more years before he's even ready for a squad spot in my opinion.

Maybe in one year he surprises us all and do really well, but definetly not ready for an immediate spot. Agreed!

If we include Chalobah in the first-team squad then he could go on loan. Again, it has to be the right loan (Brighton would be ideal if they lost Bridcutt) but his versatility would be usefu.

Ake has no place right now, imo. We would have 3 DMs and none of them would be world class. I just dont see Romeu thriving anymore (seems harsh, but idk) and Mikel + Ake wont do. Someone like Capoue is one of our highest priorities.

He's been playing in midfield for Watford and he could come in and compete for us. He's just an outstanding prospect and I don't know what he'd gain from another season on loan. This kid has everything and he'd be a great presence in the squad.

I actually think you might be right. At least so he can see how things are in Cobham and get that everyday life experience...

He's about as ready as a player could be. If we're going to transition then there's always the option of cashing in on Cech and letting this kid help establish a new spine in our team.

He is, but do we just tell Cech to pack his things and go? Wouldnt it be disrespectful?

I just feel sometimes we gotta do what is right and not what is rationally the best...

If Lamps is gone then JT will go next summer. Got to imagine he has no transfer value left with his public image and deteriorating physical condition.

I just dont see them sadly being worth not even 90-100k, let alone 150k+. Very sad, but true!

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So, what you think of the squads? Balanced? Totally out of line? Way to unrealistic?

Also, how sure are you that Torres will leave?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

You haven't really referred to any of his qualities, attributes or virtues when saying he isn't ready.

Have you seen him play?

I have seen him a few times only, but it doesn't matter because it is impossible to compare quality when the difference in competition is so enormous. He's looked good when I've seen him, especially considering his age. However, there are dozens of players that look poised, confident, and talented in the Championship who would be devoured in the Premier League. It's the same concept (although bigger gap) with our youth teams. This is the point. You can't judge a players' ability until he plays at a high level. Teams like Chelsea can't afford to bring young players along and nourish them while they make mistakes as they adjust to the new league (which they all will). We need players who are already quality and have proven it at a top level.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

Just my opinion on a few of our younger players who are on loan and who could be/wont be part of a future Chelsea team:

Courtois is more than ready to start.

Josh needs a season or two in the Championship before 2 seasons of regular PL football before being ready realistically.

Lukaku needs another year of regular football but could probably do a job.

Chalobah is probably the same as Josh another year in the Championship or a few seasons of PL football if Watford get promoted.

Piazon, unsure, looked out of place in the FA cup game vs United. Probably a season or two of regular top level football in any country would do him good.

Kalas, is he ready? Not watched much of him but I've heard very promising reports about him. Maybe use him as a backup RB with Ivan used as a CB or a PL loan depending on who comes in as coach.

De Bruyne, more than ready and capable just where to play him? Wide left, wide right, attacking midfield? Box to Box MF role? Depends on the coach next year and his preffered formation.

Feruz, keep him with the u21s then maybe a loan deal in the Championship depending on his progression next season.

Omeruo, really impressed with him at ACON, apparently his agent said we were considering taking him back next season, unsure if hes ready or not but based on his ACON performances he could maybe get a loan at a mid table PL club.

Kakuta, he can just fuck off tbh, wasted talent, shit attitude.

Ake looked solid vs Middlesbrough, should get a loan in the Championship, then another year then maybe a year in the PL after.

Sam, hate to say it his career looks like it has been over for a few years.

Bruma, probably be sold at the end of the season to Hamburg. Doesn't look like hes going to be a top center half anyway.

PVA, don't know, probably be sold, hasn't really settled as well at a club as well since his Newcastle loan.

Davila, never had hope for him at all really, unsure how hes doing, don't think he'll get much of a chance with our current attacking options.

Thorgan, really surprised me, actually see him getting a chance in our team in 3 or 4 years tbh. Depends on picking good loans though but still promising.

Wallace, unsure, not seen much, could be good, could be bad. We'll see though. Will he be loaned out in Brazil next year? Probably not, with the likes of Napoli, Juve, Roma all wanting him last year maybe we should look to loan him out in Italy next year.

The other English lads, George, Patrick, Billy, Sam etc don't see much of a chance for them sadly due to the players we have in their positions.

Lalkovic, had hoped that he'd have had better chances on loan but it hasn't worked for him too well. Still young, probably get him a league 1 or championship loan next season see where he goes from their.

[English Freak 456]

Just my opinion on a few of our younger players who are on loan and who could be/wont be part of a future Chelsea team:

Courtois is more than ready to start.

Josh needs a season or two in the Championship before 2 seasons of regular PL football before being ready realistically.

Lukaku needs another year of regular football but could probably do a job.

Chalobah is probably the same as Josh another year in the Championship or a few seasons of PL football if Watford get promoted.

Piazon, unsure, looked out of place in the FA cup game vs United. Probably a season or two of regular top level football in any country would do him good.

Kalas, is he ready? Not watched much of him but I've heard very promising reports about him. Maybe use him as a backup RB with Ivan used as a CB or a PL loan depending on who comes in as coach.

De Bruyne, more than ready and capable just where to play him? Wide left, wide right, attacking midfield? Box to Box MF role? Depends on the coach next year and his preffered formation.

Feruz, keep him with the u21s then maybe a loan deal in the Championship depending on his progression next season.

Omeruo, really impressed with him at ACON, apparently his agent said we were considering taking him back next season, unsure if hes ready or not but based on his ACON performances he could maybe get a loan at a mid table PL club.

Bruma, probably be sold at the end of the season to Hamburg. Doesn't look like hes going to be a top center half anyway.

PVA, don't know, probably be sold, hasn't really settled as well at a club as well since his Newcastle loan.

The other English lads, George, Patrick, Billy, Sam etc don't see much of a chance for them sadly due to the players we have in their positions.

Feruz: Find the right club (championship or league 1) and loan him out

Josh: Still don't see him as physically ready

Lukaku: Depends on top 4 finish and possibility of signing a big name striker like Cavani

Piazon: Probably another loan spell...making him play in the Chelsea reserves will just end his development

De Bruyne: Definitely needs to come back..

Kalas: Depends on top 4 finish...he couldn't do much worse than Cahill or Luiz at CB...

Bruma: Sell him for a good fee...

PvA: Has done well at Vitesse...bring him back...

Omeruo: Needs regular games.

Courtois: The more he stays in Spain...the more I think Barca might take him..

[Santiago. 1,500]

I'd make it a solid fucking goal that we won't sell anyone to Barca.

Getting rid of Terry and Lampard would diminish the development of our youth players/loanies in my opinion. We are not better off without them .

[Mundaka 243]

rmpr i agree with everything you said !

Same , except for the winger part, i think Marin should get a proper chance first + De Bruyne can also play wide by the way if needed (yeh what cant he do?!) especially since we don't use out and out wingers. (And we shouldn't , ours are too good technically/creatively)

Also Piazon could get 1st team gametime if he is ok with playing 20 minutes/game. In your example he could sub Moses or Hazard if needed @ minute 65/70 to gain experience... which could happen quite often as wingers get subbed the most. Next to that the early rounds in cups/EL. (if we fail in CL or dont qualify)

Would be the same way Hazard played his first year @ Lille and that didnt turn out bad

[Stingray 9,441]

I agree we aren't a youth team in any way. Still, still seeing KDB, Courtois and Lukaku as youngsters is weird. Those three have developped beyong the level of 'youth players'.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I have seen him a few times only, but it doesn't matter because it is impossible to compare quality when the difference in competition is so enormous. He's looked good when I've seen him, especially considering his age. However, there are dozens of players that look poised, confident, and talented in the Championship who would be devoured in the Premier League. It's the same concept (although bigger gap) with our youth teams. This is the point. You can't judge a players' ability until he plays at a high level. Teams like Chelsea can't afford to bring young players along and nourish them while they make mistakes as they adjust to the new league (which they all will). We need players who are already quality and have proven it at a top level.

So until he's played in the Champions League, we shouldn't take a risk on him? You say there are dozens of players who look a poised and talented as him - name 3.

No offence, but your view on our youth is what I hate about modern football. We're a family and these young kids WILL make mistakes but we'll support them because that's what families do. You'd rather go out and spend £50 million on someone guaranteed to make no mistakes (which doesn't actually happen) when we have to change our mindset and start putting faith in these talented youngsters.

The supporters of Chelsea Football Club have always supported (or nourished) young kids when they make mistakes adjusting to the first-team.

[calculatingInfinity 1,472]

Chelsea should. But no manager is going to dare and use youngsters when they are always under the danger of being sacked with a few bad results.

[Joker10 946]

I will write something longer next time. But few things:

People information on this forum on Kakuta and PVA are still behind. Both players have played really well this season, and Kakuta attitude has significantly improved. Piet De Visser on numerous occasions has praised them for their development this season at Vitesse.

On Lukaku- I definitely agree we need to buy a superb and proven striker in the summer, but that doesn't mean that Lukaku should go on loan. If there is something to take away from United and City success over the years is the abundance of strikers they have at the club. People on numerous occasion here have said "City and United got lucky again with a late winner/equalizer." Its not luck that on numerous occasion one of Chicharito, Welback, Rooney, or RVP steps up. Lets not forget United is a flawed team in midfield and defense(less so now that Vidic is back), they would not be first if it was not for their strikers. Same thing with Shitty.

The decision to keep Lukaku is a easy one, because without a doubt he would make us a better team. I like the prospect of him coming in the 70-80 minute when we need a goal. His speed and strength is no doubt going to be an asset.

On the other side people are nuts to think Lukaku and Ba alone would be good enough for next season. We definitely need to buy a proven striker.

Feruz? lol he needs to go on loan, forget about him getting minutes at Chelsea, he would not even get a loan spell at any PL team let alone get playing time at Chelsea.

Ake? A loan spell he definitely needs, after that lets reevaluate.

I will write something later on my philosophy how to integrate youths another time.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I will write something longer next time. But few things:

People information on this forum on Kakuta and PVA are still behind. Both players have played really well this season, and Kakuta attitude has significantly improved. Piet De Visser on numerous occasions has praised them for their development this season at Vitesse.

On Lukaku- I definitely agree we need to buy a superb and proven striker in the summer, but that doesn't mean that Lukaku should go on loan. If there is something to take away from United and City success over the years is the abundance of strikers they have at the club. People on numerous occasion here have said "City and United got lucky again with a late winner/equalizer." Its not luck that on numerous occasion one of Chicharito, Welback, Rooney, or RVP steps up. Lets not forget United is a flawed team in midfield and defense(less so now that Vidic is back), they would not be first if it was not for their strikers. Same thing with Shitty.

The decision to keep Lukaku is a easy one, because without a doubt he would make us a better team. I like the prospect of him coming in the 70-80 minute when we need a goal. His speed and strength is no doubt going to be an asset.

On the other side people are nuts to think Lukaku and Ba alone would be good enough for next season. We definitely need to buy a proven striker.

Feruz? lol he needs to go on loan, forget about him getting minutes at Chelsea, he would not even get a loan spell at any PL team let alone get playing time at Chelsea.

Ake? A loan spell he definitely needs, after that lets reevaluate.

I will write something later on my philosophy how to integrate youths another time.

Are Ba and Lukaku not proven strikers? I've been one of the people who said I'd be happy going into the season with those two and one other utility striker who can also play on the wings. Does that make me nuts?

Lukaku has done everything we asked of him and more. He's got a fantastic attitude and has a fantastic scoring record in his first real season of Premier League football. I'd show a bit of loyalty to this guy and give him an honest shot to lead the line, along with Ba.

Oh, and for those people worried he might make mistakes - he will. That's why we're called 'supporters'. We're going to support him, we're going to cut him some slack and we're going to help him up when he falls.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I've said this before, but if we kept Sturridge we would've been better off - Ba, Lukaku and Sturridge next season would've been a great strikeforce IMO.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

I am not 100% positive on my wish to loan him if we get UCL, but I dont see it doing that much damage to him. I mean, Cavani and Ba would be temporarily, since Ba is 'old' and injury prone and maybe we even start using 2 strikers, so buying Cavani is not as crazy as it sounds. Loaning him for just one more year might be a good option.

Also, Cavani/Lukaku in the future will be so deadly, wow!

I must admit i have only seen him playing 3-4 times, but what worries me is that his body is not ready to take on the Premier League. If he prefers a Marin role for the next year or so, I see no problem. if he wants to play, then we must loan Feruz.

I do agree it will be hard to find a good team for him...

I would include him if we are out of UCL. However, I absolutely think Moses and Hazard are not enough (not in quality) for a strong run in both the English League and Champions League. Gaitan or Rodriguez would do really well on our team, seriously. They provide good width, dribling and crossing ability and they know how to defend.

Yes!

Maybe in one year he surprises us all and do really well, but definetly not ready for an immediate spot. Agreed!

Ake has no place right now, imo. We would have 3 DMs and none of them would be world class. I just dont see Romeu thriving anymore (seems harsh, but idk) and Mikel + Ake wont do. Someone like Capoue is one of our highest priorities.

I actually think you might be right. At least so he can see how things are in Cobham and get that everyday life experience...

He is, but do we just tell Cech to pack his things and go? Wouldnt it be disrespectful?

I just feel sometimes we gotta do what is right and not what is rationally the best...

I just dont see them sadly being worth not even 90-100k, let alone 150k+. Very sad, but true!

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So, what you think of the squads? Balanced? Totally out of line? Way to unrealistic?

Also, how sure are you that Torres will leave?

Ba is only 27 or 28, thats someone in their prime, not an old player. The injury prone thing is also overstated, he hasn't had a lengthy injury in the PL yet. There was a stat flying about that he hadn't missed a game in like 6 years due to injury before he signed for us.

Also on Feruz.

Physically Feruz is actually probably one of the players more ready for senior football games be it Championship or PL. He is actually better physically than what you'd think for being 17 and 5 ft 7 or whatever he is. Hes nowhere near as big as Lukaku but hes not a frail boy like Josh. Hes been compared to a younger Wayne Rooney because hes a strong, powerful and dynamic player. Hes probably the best prospect we have after Nate, in fact I don't know whos the better prospect out of Chalobah or Feruz (may be a biased opinion because Feruz is an adopted Scot haha). But honestly, Feruz was playing with Scotland 17s by the time he was 13 or 14 I read, he played in a testomonial game for the late Tommy Burns in 2008 or 2009 when he was 15 or something. If he was still at Celtic he'd be a first team player, no doubt, Lennon was absolutely gutted to lose him. I know its only the SPL but if it were allowed he probably would have been a first team player at 15.

I'm going out on a limb and saying he will be a full time Scottish international by the time hes 19 or 20. Hes more the capable.

[mediator 2,026]

Chelsea should. But no manager is going to dare and use youngsters when they are always under the danger of being sacked with a few bad results.

Arsene Wenger is that man for it