The Benitez Thread

[Kez 2,727]

I don't understand these 2 points. You can't say the players do not want to play for him since many of them have been playing like this since under RDM, so they didn't want to play for RDM either?

And his ideas are actually solid as far as i'm concerned. Someone posted an article that likened the way he wants Chelsea to play to how BVB play, but we just don't have a good enough squad atm, which is shocking looking at how much some of those players cost.

You can't say that the players have the same relationship with Rafa as they did with RDM. You could see the way RDM celebrated with his players, when we eventually win a game I very much doubt that their will be many celebrations with rafa, he very rarely celebrates anyway.

As for his ideas, they are very negative, the defense was solid for the first 2 games but we literally created fuck all going forward. Okay things were not great under RDM but we looked like a team with spirit we were able to come back from going down. Right now the atmosphere around the club is very negative, the fans & the players. Rafa is not the man to get us out of this depressing spell he's just going to make it worse and worse.

[zolayes 14,489]

It is sometimes ok for a manager to criticise his players if he has been with them a time and previously praised and defended them .

for a new manager to come in and criticise everything is hardly a way like to achieve good results ....already he is making man management mistakes.

[Sheva. 5,373]

You can't say that the players have the same relationship with Rafa as they did with RDM. You could see the way RDM celebrated with his players, when we eventually win a game I very much doubt that their will be many celebrations with rafa, he very rarely celebrates anyway.

As for his ideas, they are very negative, the defense was solid for the first 2 games but we literally created fuck all going forward. Okay things were not great under RDM but we looked like a team with spirit we were able to come back from going down. Right now the atmosphere around the club is very negative, the fans & the players. Rafa is not the man to get us out of this depressing spell he's just going to make it worse and worse.

His ideas are based on being solid and organized defensively first, being good on the counter and passes in behind the defence instead of passing it in-front of them 30 times to create an opening.

Negative maybe, when you compare to some managers who love to play open attacking football, but i don't have much of a problem with it.

The atmosphere is negative because of the fans. Roman brought Benitez in because he was the best person available, but the fans don't like him and are creating a negative atmosphere around the club, one that makes it even more difficult to succeed.

And right now if Rafa was fired, who would come in and get Chelsea out of this "depressing spell"? Avram Grant? Steve Kean? Sparky?

[Sheva. 5,373]

It is sometimes ok for a manager to criticise his players if he has been with them a time and previously praised and defended them .

for a new manager to come in and criticise everything is hardly a way like to achieve good results ....already he is making man management mistakes.

What did he criticize apart from the lack of leaders thing? i've not read any football related articles since the West ham loss

[Kez 2,727]

His ideas are based on being solid and organized defensively first, being good on the counter and passes in behind the defence instead of passing it in-front of them 30 times to create an opening.

Negative maybe, when you compare to some managers who love to play open attacking football, but i don't have much of a problem with it.

The atmosphere is negative because of the fans. Roman brought Benitez in because he was the best person available, but the fans don't like him and are creating a negative atmosphere around the club, one that makes it even more difficult to succeed.

And right now if Rafa was fired, who would come in and get Chelsea out of this "depressing spell"? Avram Grant? Steve Kean? Sparky?

Being solid defensively is important yes, shipping 3 against West Ham not so solid.

But my original point wasn't about sacking Rafa was it? It was about sticking with RDM in the first place if Rafa was the only option to bring in. Things weren't exactly a disaster but now things have a danger of spiraling out of control. I honestly believe Rafa is never going to be the right man for Chelsea with his ideas of playing football, whether the fans were onside with him or not.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Being solid defensively is important yes, shipping 3 against West Ham not so solid.

But my original point wasn't about sacking Rafa was it? It was about sticking with RDM in the first place if Rafa was the only option to bring in. Things weren't exactly a disaster but now things have a danger of spiraling out of control. I honestly believe Rafa is never going to be the right man for Chelsea with his ideas of playing football, whether the fans were onside with him or not.

2 wins out of 8 and likely elimination from the CL is as close to disaster as it gets for the current "Champions of Europe".

I do get your point though, but my point is - now that Rafa is here, why want him out, when there's really no good option to replace him?

[super_frank8 186]

I don't understand these 2 points. You can't say the players do not want to play for him since many of them have been playing like this since under RDM, so they didn't want to play for RDM either?

And his ideas are actually solid as far as i'm concerned. Someone posted an article that likened the way he wants Chelsea to play to how BVB play, but we just don't have a good enough squad atm, which is shocking looking at how much some of those players cost.

What she is saying is that Rafa is a frivolous incompetant delinquent of a manager who has not only lost his mind - but the dressing room along with it. You must be almost as deluded as the paella-guzzling cunt is if you can't see that yourself by now.

To be perfectly honest, his footballing ideals & philosophy have never been particularly 'solid' as you describe. At least not in comparison to truly great managers such as Mourinho, Fergie, Pep etc. who understand that winning at all costs is what matters most if you want to get the results that bring success - rather than playing for the draw due to unnecessary over-cautious conservatism. Rafa's convoluted beliefs & methods simply do not induce the aura of confidence & relentless never-say-die attitude that a truly dominant trophy-winning team should possess & exude constantly.

He is not in any way, shape, or form an astute or intellectually superior manager - unless you enjoy hopelessly negative strategies that seem to rely far more on individual brilliance & blissful fortune to save his blushes than actual tactical prowess.

& so I guess you'll go with the typical 'oh but he won the Champions League/he has a proven record' - & in response to that retort I will gladly tell you that he is the luckiest piece of shit to have ever won anything at all, let alone the CL, considering they shouldn't have even made it to that final at all if justice was in fact upheld in the football world. He basically makes RDM seem like the pinnacle of engenuity, which I'm not going to even for one second pretend is the indisputable truth.

You know why he could never win the league? Because the only thing that he excelled at was trying to not get beaten whilst frustrating the opponents into either submission - or rampage - & the only reason his Liverpool team ever recovered from the less-than ideal positions they constantly found themselves in due to this was down to Gerrard & Alonso pulling their shit together when it actually mattered most. & so once again he would ride his luck to the very end & pretend for all the world that it was all of his own doing & was always part of the plan all along - despite the fact being that when his luck has run out on him & he has failed to achieve expectations, it is only the players who didn't perform on the day. Don't think I've ever witnessed anyone spew such an absolute load of shit at press conferences over the years...

& seriously - who in their right sane mind would even attempt to make us play anything like Dortmund when they have one of the best finishers in the world to rely on for the majority of their goals in Robert Lewandowski - & we have the massive flapping vagina that is Fernando Torres up front?

No one but Rafa I guess.

[Kez 2,727]

2 wins out of 8 and likely elimination from the CL is as close to disaster as it gets for the current "Champions of Europe".

I do get your point though, but my point is - now that Rafa is here, why want him out, when there's really no good option to replace him?

Roman is expecting too much from this season, top 4 finish is the most important thing. I'm guessing it's because things started so well in the league & we were humiliated in the super cup & CL against Juve. Things have fell off lately but we always always seem to have this slump in November I have no idea why. Roman reacted too harshly sacking RDM, but we were never going to win the CL again this season.

My point wasn't about getting rid of rafa, but i'm pretty sure things aren't going to get any better under him, hence why we should have stuck with RDM who the players and fans trusted. I can only see things getting worse from now on in, and we have to put up with it and stick it out because of the decision to let RDM go. Top 4 feels like it is slipping away with every game.

[Sheva. 5,373]

1. What she is saying is that Rafa is a frivolous incompetant delinquent of a manager who has not only lost his mind - but the dressing room along with it. You must be almost as deluded as the paella-guzzling cunt is if you can't see that yourself by now.

2. & so I guess you'll go with the typical 'oh but he won the Champions League/he has a proven record' - & in response to that retort I will gladly tell you that he is the luckiest piece of shit to have ever won anything at all, let alone the CL, considering they shouldn't have even made it to that final at all if justice was in fact upheld in the football world. He basically makes RDM seem like the pinnacle of engenuity, which I'm not going to even for one second pretend is the indisputable truth.

3. You know why he could never win the league? Because the only thing that he excelled at was trying to not get beaten whilst frustrating the opponents into either submission - or rampage - & the only reason his Liverpool team ever recovered from the less-than ideal positions they constantly found themselves in due to this was down to Gerrard & Alonso pulling their shit together when it actually mattered most. & so once again he would ride his luck to the very end & pretend for all the world that it was all of his own doing & was always part of the plan all along - despite the fact being that when his luck has run out on him & he has failed to achieve expectations, it is only the players who didn't perform on the day. Don't think I've ever witnessed anyone spew such an absolute load of shit at press conferences over the years...

4. & seriously - who in their right sane mind would even attempt to make us play like Dortmund when they have one of the best finishers in the world to rely on for the majority of their goals in Robert Lewandowski - & we have the massive flapping vagina that is Fernando Torres up front? No one but Rafa I guess.

1. He lost the dressing room? lol. My point previously stands, many of our players have been under-performing since under RDM, so does that mean he lost the dressing room too?

2. No i wasn't going to say that, but i'd say you need luck to win the CL. Pep needed huge luck to knock us out and win his first one. RDM needed luck to knock out Barca and somehow win the CL in another team's home stadium. Man utd needed luck to beat us in the final etc.

3. Didn't he win the league in Spain?

4. That's right, but what way can we successfully play exactly without a proper striker? at the beginning of the season we were fortunate we had Hazard and Mata carrying us, now they have both slowed down and so has the team, and one of the main reasons is we don't have a striker we can depend on for goals.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Roman is expecting too much from this season, top 4 finish is the most important thing. I'm guessing it's because things started so well in the league & we were humiliated in the super cup & CL against Juve. Things have fell off lately but we always always seem to have this slump in November I have no idea why. Roman reacted too harshly sacking RDM, but we were never going to win the CL again this season.

My point wasn't about getting rid of rafa, but i'm pretty sure things aren't going to get any better under him, hence why we should have stuck with RDM who the players and fans trusted. I can only see things getting worse from now on in, and we have to put up with it and stick it out because of the decision to let RDM go. Top 4 feels like it is slipping away with every game.

Several managers recently have lost their job due to the November slump, RDM is just another victim.

He was fired quicker than all the others though, and that probably highlights how Roman didn't trust him.

[Kez 2,727]

Several managers recently have lost their job due to the November slump, RDM is just another victim.

He was fired quicker than all the others though, and that probably highlights how Roman didn't trust him.

It baffles me how he couldn't trust the guy who won us the CL for at least one season yet he trusts rafa to perform another miracle in 6 months. Was 6 months extra really too much to ask for RDM? I think the fans would have been able to accept that he would go at the end of the season for Pep. We all know this was always his plan.

[Henrique 9,133]

Right so thats ok then. Fuck him. I dont want some twat who had a few lucky cup games.You are in a select minority, and youre entitled to your opinion but 100%, no proper Chelsea fan wants him, or youre playing devils advocate

-Abramovich is probably thinking what the fuck have I done ? Hes now running out of options as Ray Wilkins said. Wednesday he'll get a bit of slack as we beat the Danes, but hes on his way sooner than later

I really dont care if the manager is Lucky Twat, Fat Waiter, John Lennon, Paul McCartney or Bono Vox, as long as the guy is doing a decent job, RDM was doing an awful job, sorry if it hurt your feellings, but the matches against Shaktar and Atlético were typical matches were a team was beaten because there was no team, but a bunch of players on the pitch. I think in 2 or 3 matches Chelsea looked a solid team.

If this form remains in coming months, I will be here to ask for Benitez' head, but people here are even saying RDM is a better manager than Benitez, when the italian is not even a manager.

[Sheva. 5,373]

It baffles me how he couldn't trust the guy who won us the CL for at least one season yet he trusts rafa to perform another miracle in 6 months. Was 6 months extra really too much to ask for RDM? I think the fans would have been able to accept that he would go at the end of the season for Pep. We all know this was always his plan.

Yeah me also, RDM had his negatives, but i had no problem with him staying for the rest of the season, even with the way we were playing.

[Henrique 9,133]

It baffles me how he couldn't trust the guy who won us the CL for at least one season yet he trusts rafa to perform another miracle in 6 months. Was 6 months extra really too much to ask for RDM? I think the fans would have been able to accept that he would go at the end of the season for Pep. We all know this was always his plan.

RDM got much more than six months, and during his ternure I failed to see Chelsea playing as strong team, one or another game aside. I remember FA Cup final, Chelsea were leading 2-0, then in the 2nd half Liverpool just dominated the game, and it was almost 2-2.

To other side if you give a guy like RDM this job, you cant expect him to do much better than that, so why give him the job?

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a gret coach.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Some of my comments on the hot discussion:

1. Benitez is a proved coach, he is not one of the very best, but still a great coach. There is no need to diminish his honors or his failures.

2. RDM deserved (more than needed) one year. He wasnt an excellent coach but he was improving and had the players and fans admiration.

3. Roman wanted a change because he saw something wrong (he isnt known for his patience either), that does not mean he hates the fans or need to go out!

4. By appointing Rafa he thought it would improve, it is proving to be a very bad decision. Lets not overreact and wait. Any manager deserves time, even if he is a fat spanish waiter.

5. Our problem lies beyond the manager, dont try to blame everything on the coach (RDM or Benitez).