Oscar

[DYC. 7,542]

I prefer Hazard on the wing. He has less people to beat there. Playing him through the middle would make it easier to defend against him. Besides, if we play Oscar and Willian on the wings, most of our attacking threat would be through the centre where Hazard and Fabregas are. We would be very predictable and narrow.

The current set up is already very narrow though. Oscar and Willian on the wings would make it possible to play Azpi and Luis, without worrying too much about possible exposure at the back, who could then provide the needed extra width. Azpi is now the guy who 'can't attack' but I bet you he'll be a lot more capable of contributing offensively on his natural flank.

Hazard's dribbling would be easier to defend (though I'm convinced most still won't be able to stop him as his control is too tight and his dribbling is too varied for them to deal with) but his goal threat would increase and his passing game would be of much better use to the team. He'll be able to set up his team mates a lot more with a greater role in the middle.

Either way, Eden's current role is fine. This is just a bit of fantasy on my part, though I think it could work. Ideally, someone like Reus would join, which would make the switch work out better for the collective. Oscar doesn't seem to able to deal with the responsibility. Not strange at this level at his age, even if he was of a higher talent bracket, but it does hurt the team.

[Spike 12,049]

Tumblr seems to be into that lately:

"Eight and ten: working together, trying to get near each other all the time." - Pat Nevin

How I fucking hate tumblr and everything about it.

[Stingray 9,441]

How I fucking hate tumblr and everything about it.

Op sounds like a halfchan or 8chan oldfag! [emoji12][emoji12][emoji12]

[Spike 12,049]

Op sounds like a halfchan or 8chan oldfag! [emoji12][emoji12][emoji12]

>tfw you tru to greentext on other websites

[Stingray 9,441]

>tfw you tru to greentext on other websites

Beware or this could become a Wincest thread! Tits or gtfo!

[iseah100 5,612]

He had a few bad games and he seems to have been banged up. Give him time before declaring he's in a slump and should be dropped.

[didierforever 7,349]

we cant afford him to drop off like last season. cesc is notoriously known to drop off the pace too towards the end of the season. really needs to up his game.

[Barbara 15,149]

we cant afford him to drop off like last season. cesc is notoriously known to drop off the pace too towards the end of the season. really needs to up his game.

The Cesc thing is BS fabricated by bitter fans. His best seasons stats wise he had around the same amount of goals and assists in both halves. Don't believe what some people have been saying.

As for Oscar, absolutely, we - or he - can't afford those long slumps. Hopefully he'll do alright

[Dion 2,476]

And to be honest, it's a miracle Cesc's form has not dropped a single bit as of now, he's been overplayed a lot, just as Hazard has. Mourinho needs to start rotating the squad, still a long season ahead of us.

[Rom2013 446]

This. Most players don't hit their primes till mid to late twenties. With the exception of the very best, that's usually when it is. He has time.

I hope he spends all that time he has on the bench and we buy a proper number 10.

His vacations this season started earlier.

[The Chels 2,502]

There are no Ozil/Oscar hybrids in football. It's the one or the other.

Koke is probably as close as it comes. We were apparently interested in him before we got Fabregas but I think he'll end up at Barcelona.

[DYC. 7,542]

Koke is probably as close as it comes. We were apparently interested in him before we got Fabregas but I think he'll end up at Barcelona.

Mehh, Koke's not a playmaker. He's a good passer but not someone who dictates play and sets the tempo. And his ability to create chances is mostly the result of his awesome crossing and set-piece delivery. He's a dynamic, all-round footballer. Wonderful talent. Barca can't get anyone until 2016. If he does decide to leave (he seems to be very happy at Atletico though), I think Chelsea has a shot. The presence of Courtois, Luis and Costa (and Cesc and Azpi) helps a lot.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Mehh, Koke's not a playmaker. He's a good passer but not someone who dictates play and sets the tempo. And his ability to create chances is mostly the result of his awesome crossing and set-piece delivery. He's a dynamic, all-round footballer. Wonderful talent. Barca can't get anyone until 2016. If he does decide to leave (he seems to be very happy at Atletico though), I think Chelsea has a shot. The presence of Courtois, Luis and Costa (and Cesc and Azpi) helps a lot.

Yeah, many people have the misconception that Koke is a creative playmaker. He isn't. Most of the chances he creates are from set pieces. Oscar actually creates more chances than him from open play.

Koke creates 0.7 chances per game from open play. Oscar creates 1.6 chances per game from open play.

In comparison, Eden creates 2.4 chances per game and Cesc creates 2.3 chances per game from open play.

Koke is not what many people think he is. He wouldn't add more creativity than Oscar.

[The Chels 2,502]

Mehh, Koke's not a playmaker. He's a good passer but not someone who dictates play and sets the tempo. And his ability to create chances is mostly the result of his awesome crossing and set-piece delivery. He's a dynamic, all-round footballer. Wonderful talent. Barca can't get anyone until 2016. If he does decide to leave (he seems to be very happy at Atletico though), I think Chelsea has a shot. The presence of Courtois, Luis and Costa (and Cesc and Azpi) helps a lot.

Atletico set out to attack through counter attacks and high turnovers rather than through dominating possession so Koke isn't really given the opportunity to dictate play. I think he has the ability to do it but either way I don't think we'll get him - he'll be at least £40m and will probably not leave until after 2016 when Barca will be very strongly competiting for his signature.

Yeah, many people have the misconception that Koke is a creative playmaker. He isn't. Most of the chances he creates are from set pieces. Oscar actually creates more chances than him from open play. Koke creates 0.7 chances per game from open play. Oscar creates 1.6 chances per game from open play. In comparison, Eden creates 2.4 chances per game and Cesc creates 2.3 chances per game from open play. Koke is not what many people think he is. He wouldn't add more creativity than Oscar.

We dominate possession in the majority of our games a lot more than Atletico do so it's inevitable that Oscar creates more open play chances than Koke. I think it's a misleading stat as it does give the impression that Oscar is the more creative player which is not true imo.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Atletico set out to attack through counter attacks and high turnovers rather than through dominating possession so Koke isn't really given the opportunity to dictate play. I think he has the ability to do it but either way I don't think we'll get him - he'll be at least £40m and will probably not leave until after 2016 when Barca will be very strongly competiting for his signature.

We dominate possession in the majority of our games a lot more than Atletico do so it's inevitable that Oscar creates more open play chances than Koke. I think it's a misleading stat as it does give the impression that Oscar is the more creative player which is not true imo.

Koke isn't exactly a creative force when he plays for Spain and Spain completely dominate possession. In the games I watched him play in 4-3-3 midfield with Busquets and Cesc, Koke looked out of place and seemed to be struggling. He's a talented lad, but I've seen nothing from him that suggests he's particularly creative or can dictate play. He's not a playmaker. He's a very good midfielder, but he's not a creative playmaker.

We actually don't have a lot more possession than Atletico do. Atletico have the average possession of 52%. We have the average possession of 56%. The difference is negligible to explain Koke's little creativity from open play. Hell, even Matic creates 0.6 chances per game playing a DM, which is almost the same amount of chances Koke creates from open play.

I'm not a big fan of Oscar, but he's not less creative than Koke. Koke's set pieces boost his stats a lot. And he's more hyped than Oscar.

[The Chels 2,502]

Koke isn't exactly a creative force when he plays for Spain and Spain completely dominate possession. In the games I watched him play in 4-3-3 midfield with Busquets and Cesc, Koke looked out of place and seemed to be struggling. He's a talented lad, but I've seen nothing from him that suggests he's particularly creative or can dictate play. He's not a playmaker. He's a very good midfielder, but he's not a creative playmaker.

We actually don't have a lot more possession than Atletico do. Atletico have the average possession of 52%. We have the average possession of 56%. The difference is negligible to explain Koke's little creativity from open play. Hell, even Matic creates 0.6 chances per game playing a DM, which is almost the same amount of chances Koke creates from open play.

I'm not a big fan of Oscar, but he's not less creative than Koke. Koke's set pieces boost his stats a lot. And he's more hyped than Oscar.

I don't think the Spanish NT is the best way to judge a player's creativity. Koke is a very direct player a la Cesc and when I've watched Spain recently it seems like they still don't know whether they want to play a more direct style to accomate the likes of Costa and Koke or whether they want to play their tika-taka football. Where are you getting your stats from by the way and do you have a detailed breakdown because I suspect we dominate possession in the final third much more than they do.

You can't just ignore set pieces because that's a huge part of Koke and Atletico's game. You see it with us even - when Costa and Luis get to the byline they will very often just hit it against the defender wanting to win a corner (all players do this of course but I've noticed Atletico players tend to do it a lot). If Oscar was that good from set pieces he'd be a hell of a lot more useful. Koke does all the defensive work Oscar does and still does more going forward relative to the demands of his team whereas Oscar is often a passenger attacking-wise. I would swap them in a heartbeat.

Edited January 6, 2015 by The Chels

[Daniel1980 1,425]

I don't think the Spanish NT is the best way to judge a player's creativity. Koke is a very direct player a la Cesc and when I've watched Spain recently it seems like they still don't know whether they want to play a more direct style to accomate the likes of Costa and Koke or whether they want to play their tika-taka football. Where are you getting your stats from by the way and do you have a detailed breakdown because I suspect we dominate possession in the final third much more than they do.

You can't just ignore set pieces because that's a huge part of Koke and Atletico's game. You see it with us even - when Costa and Luis get to the byline they will very often just hit it against the defender wanting to win a corner (all players do this of course but I've noticed Atletico players tend to do it a lot). If Oscar was that good from set pieces he'd be a hell of a lot more useful. Koke does all the defensive work Oscar does and still does more going forward relative to the demands of his team whereas Oscar is often a passenger attacking-wise. I would swap them in a heartbeat.

Yeah, Spanish NT is a mess at the moment, but still, he doesn't seem to do all that well when he has a lot of possession.

Actually, according to WhoScored, we and Atletico have practically identical "Action Zones": 31% in the attacking third. I know that Koke creates the majority of Atletico's goals from set pieces, but that doesn't make Koke a creative playmaker - it makes him a great set piece taker, is all. We aren't doing too bad in that regard either, but unlike Atletico, we score a lot more goals from open play too. And in open play Koke doesn't bring that much to the team. The fact that Atletico scored 12 goals from open play in half a season is very poor, regardless of their set pieces - we scored 30, with about the same amount of possession as Atletico. It says nothing good about Atletico players' creativity.

Look, I know where you're coming from - Oscar isn't the most creative player around and I'd be happy if we get someone who could offer more in attack, but Koke isn't the answer. Oscar has his flaws, but he created 27 chances from open play this season. Koke created just a bit over 10. Regardless of Koke's superiority in set pieces, he should do more in open play to be called a playmaker. Cesc has created over 40 chances from open play in addition to the set piece chances. That's what a playmaker is supposed to do.

[The Chels 2,502]

Yeah, Spanish NT is a mess at the moment, but still, he doesn't seem to do all that well when he has a lot of possession.

Actually, according to WhoScored, we and Atletico have practically identical "Action Zones": 31% in the attacking third. I know that Koke creates the majority of Atletico's goals from set pieces, but that doesn't make Koke a creative playmaker - it makes him a great set piece taker, is all. We aren't doing too bad in that regard either, but unlike Atletico, we score a lot more goals from open play too. And in open play Koke doesn't bring that much to the team. The fact that Atletico scored 12 goals from open play in half a season is very poor, regardless of their set pieces - we scored 30, with about the same amount of possession as Atletico. It says nothing good about Atletico players' creativity.

Look, I know where you're coming from - Oscar isn't the most creative player around and I'd be happy if we get someone who could offer more in attack, but Koke isn't the answer. Oscar has his flaws, but he created 27 chances from open play this season. Koke created just a bit over 10. Regardless of Koke's superiority in set pieces, he should do more in open play to be called a playmaker. Cesc has created over 40 chances from open play in addition to the set piece chances. That's what a playmaker is supposed to do.

I watch every Atletico game because I really admire Simeone's work and their tactical nous, and I do feel like quite a lot of those stats are misleading. Atleti are a very clinical team which means they don't require Koke to create so many chances from open play. The fact that they have Mandzukic up front now instead of Costa only adds to the significance of set pieces for them and their play is heavily orientated towards winning free kicks and using clever set piece routines rather than on creating lots of chances from open play like ours is. Hence just because Koke doesn't create so many chances from open play doesn't necessarily mean he can't (he is very good and decisive with the ball) and I would suggest that if he were given the number 10 role in our team his attacking output would increase a lot.

Another thing you have to take into account is that Atleti always overload defensively, even at home against lesser sides which means Koke (who plays out wide) is always behind the ball when the opposition have it and he has to press amd track back a hell of a lot. Oscar does a good defensive job for us but he doesn't need to do as much as the Atletico forward players, who arguably have to defend more even the likes of Ivanovic and Cesc (which is why they are a more defensively stable side, conceding significantly fewer shots on goal than we do). It probably sounds like I'm making excuses for him and while I am willing to admit that while he is the not the best playmaker, he is a lot better than those stats suggest and I see a lot of potential in him. It's just my personal opinion though and I understand why you might think otherwise.