Eden Hazard

[Special Juan 28,139]

Interview was absolute gold with Willian.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

12 hours ago, Robguima said:

The key player thing is very nuanced.

Argentina, despite good overall quality in the squad had been playing like shit in WCQ, like Italy level of shit. Then Messi shows up and qualifies them with 3 goals when needed. Still, I cannot say that argentina would not have qualified without messi. Because without him, they might have had more cohesion, and become a better team without depending so much on a single player. It is a team sport. Now, of course they would be more likely to win a WC with messi on the team.

well we agree on the last point for sure. Our staff like big strong players - technical ability does not seem as important to them.

On Mourinho, I don't blame him for losing the players; I blame the club. He's known for rarely rotating and rarely giving minutes to youngsters. If a manager refuses to give play time to promising youngsters, he should be sacked even while bringing the results. Long-term vision should always take precedence... do we have one?

Ofcourse there's a lot of things that come into play.

 

Argentina is a weird team. They have so many options in attack but they don't really fit as a team. Too many players of the same sort trying to use the same space. 

Well we kinda did before we hired Mourinho. We seemed to move away from a pragmatic approach and we were signing small technical players at the time trying to play a more free flowing attacking brand of football.

We were heavily linked with Guardiola at the time aswell but when he turned us down we then turned to  Mourinho. I always felt that was an odd way to go. 

I mean it's weird to have Guardiola and Mourinho as nr1 and nr 2 on a list of managers to get because i don't think you'll be able to find a bigger clash of styles then that in world football.

Gotta wonder what we were thinking at the time. Did we expect Mourinho to change ? To play in a different way or did we simply give up our attempt at playing more attacking football.

 

[Tomo 21,751]

25 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Ofcourse there's a lot of things that come into play.

 

Argentina is a weird team. They have so many options in attack but they don't really fit as a team. Too many players of the same sort trying to use the same space. 

Well we kinda did before we hired Mourinho. We seemed to move away from a pragmatic approach and we were signing small technical players at the time trying to play a more free flowing attacking brand of football.

We were heavily linked with Guardiola at the time aswell but when he turned us down we then turned to  Mourinho. I always felt that was an odd way to go. 

I mean it's weird to have Guardiola and Mourinho as nr1 and nr 2 on a list of managers to get because i don't think you'll be able to find a bigger clash of styles then that in world football.

Gotta wonder what we were thinking at the time. Did we expect Mourinho to change ? To play in a different way or did we simply give up our attempt at playing more attacking football.

 

You could tell by Jose's early interviews he was looking to settle down after his European tour and was on board with the direction we were heading in, so much so he went on record after we lost to Everton saying he was happy with the performance despite the loss and at the stage we were at preferred it to winning ugly, quotes are at the bottom of this page.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11945/8927730/chelsea-boss-jose-mourinho-says-he-is-not-obsessed-with-champions-league

I think after a few months he realized he wasn't capable of such a build and resorted to type. A lot of people, me included, gave him the benefit of the doubt he was doing it to get top 4 or possibly the title and will carry on with such project afterwards, but it wasn't to be. Although while we are on that subject looking back the Lukaku signing was really strange, he was the opposite of the way we were trying to go and if we did succeed in getting Pep Rom would have been chased out of Cobham with a machine gun after the first session  Did we get suckered in by his claim he supported us and that oscar winning acting on the Stamford Bridge tour? 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Anyone has video with all his touches vs huddersfield?

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

31 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Anyone has video with all his touches vs huddersfield?

Be quick though as all the other have been taken down and this one will likely be taken down aswell. 

[The Skipper 20,609]

On 08/12/2017 at 10:07 PM, BlueLyon said:

No, fancy haircuts, big cars, fuckboy attitude, swag and instagram pics give recognition. 

The fact mbappe ended 7th and Hazard 19th last season in balon dor, sums it all up. 

Welcome to 20s of 21 century. Performances on the pitch and off the pitch good guy mentality are overrated. 

Mbappé generally had a better season than Hazard last season though.  

The guys in defence that usually get recognition (Ramos, Bonucci, Silva, Pique etc.) literally do none of the things you described...

Like @Fernando said, Azpi doesn’t get global recognition because he hasn’t really shined at the highest stages of the global platform (CL). He gets recognised in the PL though. Gary Neville and Carragher for example always call him the best 1v1 defender in the league. 

[Jase 43,479]

9 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Mbappé generally had a better season than Hazard last season though.  

The guys in defence that usually get recognition (Ramos, Bonucci, Silva, Pique etc.) literally do none of the things you described...

Like @Fernando said, Azpi doesn’t get global recognition because he hasn’t really shined at the highest stages of the global platform (CL). He gets recognised in the PL though. Gary Neville and Carragher for example always call him the best 1v1 defender in the league. 

Would argue that the Premier League is just as big as the Champions League, if not even bigger, given the money involved and most countries around the world have access to it. Azpi isn't getting as much recognition as he should because he's not a flashy player, doesn't do anything outrageous to stand out (in a good way) and he plays for Chelsea FC. Put him at United and you'll be hearing pundits, journalists etc calling him the best defender in the world.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

12 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Mbappé generally had a better season than Hazard last season though.  

The guys in defence that usually get recognition (Ramos, Bonucci, Silva, Pique etc.) literally do none of the things you described...

Like @Fernando said, Azpi doesn’t get global recognition because he hasn’t really shined at the highest stages of the global platform (CL). He gets recognised in the PL though. Gary Neville and Carragher for example always call him the best 1v1 defender in the league. 

Oh come on. Mbappe didnt have as good season as Eden last year 😂 

I love watching Mbappe, he is great already, but Eden raises the level. He is among very top players in europe, Mbappe still has to get there. 

Mbappe got all that hype in CL and it went like a train...he is fantastic yes, but it all got blown out.

In no world are Ramos, Silva, Bonucci...better defenders than Chiellini, Barzagli, Azpilicueta, Godin,...yet they get more recognition because of their fancy football style. 

Saying defender is good when he can pass well and defend average is like saying striker is good for his link up and not finishing. Defenders defend and strikers have to score goals. Period. Being versatile is just bonus, but not requirement. 

All in all the balondor just turned into a joke popularity contest whatever way you turn it...

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

12 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Mbappé generally had a better season than Hazard last season though.  

The guys in defence that usually get recognition (Ramos, Bonucci, Silva, Pique etc.) literally do none of the things you described...

Like @Fernando said, Azpi doesn’t get global recognition because he hasn’t really shined at the highest stages of the global platform (CL). He gets recognised in the PL though. Gary Neville and Carragher for example always call him the best 1v1 defender in the league. 

He certainly did not. Based on what? CL success maybe because Hazard didn't play in it last season. But there's no doubt Hazard was hands down the better player in his own league for instance

http://www.squawka.com/football-player-rankings#performance-score#player-stats#top-5-european-leagues|season-2016/2017#all-teams#all-player-positions#16#43#0#0#90#12/08/2016#28/05/2017#season#1#all-matches#total#desc#total 

Sites like Squawka provide at least a certain degree of objectivity in determining the best players in Europe every season. These algorithms consider everthing. Goals, assists, key passes/chances created, possession score, defensive contribution and efficiency not just subjective opinions. Unsurprisingly Hazard was 2nd to only Messi in 2016/17 and 3rd I think to Messi and CR7 in 2014/15.

 

[The Skipper 20,609]

10 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Oh come on. Mbappe didnt have as good season as Eden last year 😂 

I love watching Mbappe, he is great already, but Eden raises the level. He is among very top players in europe, Mbappe still has to get there. 

Mbappe got all that hype in CL and it went like a train...he is fantastic yes, but it all got blown out.

Oh, yes he did. Monaco’s main man during crunch time in the season. Won Ligue 1 and dropped amazing CL performances against top teams. Eden just won the PL last year, and Eden is at an automatic disadvantage with him not participating in the CL. 

9 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

He certainly did not. Based on what? CL success maybe because Hazard didn't play in it last season. But there's no doubt Hazard was hands down the better player in his own league for instance

If you want to bring statistics into it then we can look at the numbers: Mbappé had 24 goals and 8 assists in 41 appearances (15 coming on as a substitute). Eden had a great year, yes, but this was Mbappé’s break out season at 18. An 18 year old performing like that in the league and the CL - last time we saw that with a player was Messi (UCL performance vs. CFC where he announced himself to the world). He performed just as well in his league plus has his CL performances to count on which Eden doesn’t have.

I don’t really think you should use Squawka as proof that Eden was definitely better. Those stats only use league games, not the CL where Mbappé’s best performances happened. That algorithm also has Dries Mertens and Insigne (both good players obviously but still) as the 3rd and 4th best players last season.

Don’t conflate better player with better season. I’m not saying Mbappé is the better player, I’m saying that he had a better season. 

Just like I can say this season so far, Eden is having a better season than Mbappé, I’m saying that Mbappé had a better, more iconic season than Eden last year.

[cfcs most wanted 657]

7 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Oh, yes he did. Monaco’s main man during crunch time in the season. Won Ligue 1 and dropped amazing CL performances against top teams. Eden just won the PL last year, and Eden is at an automatic disadvantage with him not participating in the CL. 

If you want to bring statistics into it then we can look at the numbers: Mbappé had 24 goals and 8 assists in 41 appearances (15 coming on as a substitute). Eden had a great year, yes, but this was Mbappé’s break out season at 18. An 18 year old performing like that in the league and the CL - last time we saw that with a player was Messi (UCL performance vs. CFC where he announced himself to the world). He performed just as well in his league plus has his CL performances to count on which Eden doesn’t have.

I don’t really think you should use Squawka as proof that Eden was definitely better. Those stats only use league games, not the CL where Mbappé’s best performances happened.

Don’t conflate better player with better season. I’m not saying Mbappé is the better player, I’m saying that he had a better season. 

Just like I can say this season so far, Eden is having a better season than Mbappé, I’m saying that Mbappé had a better, more iconic season than Eden last year.

Seriously you wanna bring in the fact that Hazard scored less goals  not everyone in the team is their to score goals. He's the sole creative force for the team. Why are you evaluating him on something he just isn't meant to be doing?

[The Skipper 20,609]

Just now, cfcs most wanted said:

Seriously you wanna bring in the fact that Hazard scored less goals  not everyone in the team is their to score goals. He's the sole creative force for the team. Why are you evaluating him on something he just isn't meant to be doing?

I didn’t say that at all, you’re assuming stuff and putting words in my mouth. Read the post carefully. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

18 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Oh, yes he did. Monaco’s main man during crunch time in the season. Won Ligue 1 and dropped amazing CL performances against top teams. Eden just won the PL last year, and Eden is at an automatic disadvantage with him not participating in the CL. 

If you want to bring statistics into it then we can look at the numbers: Mbappé had 24 goals and 8 assists in 41 appearances (15 coming on as a substitute). Eden had a great year, yes, but this was Mbappé’s break out season at 18. An 18 year old performing like that in the league and the CL - last time we saw that with a player was Messi (UCL performance vs. CFC where he announced himself to the world). He performed just as well in his league plus has his CL performances to count on which Eden doesn’t have.

I don’t really think you should use Squawka as proof that Eden was definitely better. Those stats only use league games, not the CL where Mbappé’s best performances happened. That algorithm also has Dries Mertens and Insigne (both good players obviously but still) as the 3rd and 4th best players last season.

Don’t conflate better player with better season. I’m not saying Mbappé is the better player, I’m saying that he had a better season. 

Just like I can say this season so far, Eden is having a better season than Mbappé, I’m saying that Mbappé had a better, more iconic season than Eden last year.

Winning PL is more difficult than winning Ligue 1. Its definately bigger achievement here. Eden didnt even play in CL, so we cant hardly compare their performances there, but Mbappe had excellent CL campaign indeed. 

However simply put, considering they can both play in same position, who would you prefer? 

I would definately not have Mbappe ahead of Eden last season nor this season in Chelsea. Mbappe can score more indeed, but Eden is allround playmaker, dribbler and very decent scorer too. 

And yes Mbappe was 18 last season. If you throw that out, then compare him to other 18 year olds where he easily wins in quality. But when you compare who is best in the world, age has nothing to do with it. 18 or 32, if you are best you are best. Just because someone is younger, doesnt mean he gets different criteria to be judged on. It just tells he has higher potential for the future. 

Hands down last season Cr, Messi, Neymar and Hazard were in league of their own, much like this season but with CR in decline. Then come the likes of Mbappe, Lewandowski, Modric etc. 

Mbappe has serious potential though. But his ability is to be extremly skilled goalscorer and when he bangs 30 a season, then we will talk he fullfilled his potential, and be compared to worlds best. 

Right now, Eden is still ways ahead, as are some other players. Its kind of sad he gets so little recognition even among Chelsea fans. Mbappe considering he is 18 had awesome season, but when comparing him to worlds best, they do it every season, almost every game. 

 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

19 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Oh, yes he did. Monaco’s main man during crunch time in the season. Won Ligue 1 and dropped amazing CL performances against top teams. Eden just won the PL last year, and Eden is at an automatic disadvantage with him not participating in the CL. 

If you want to bring statistics into it then we can look at the numbers: Mbappé had 24 goals and 8 assists in 41 appearances (15 coming on as a substitute). Eden had a great year, yes, but this was Mbappé’s break out season at 18. An 18 year old performing like that in the league and the CL - last time we saw that with a player was Messi (UCL performance vs. CFC where he announced himself to the world). He performed just as well in his league plus has his CL performances to count on which Eden doesn’t have.

I don’t really think you should use Squawka as proof that Eden was definitely better. Those stats only use league games, not the CL where Mbappé’s best performances happened. That algorithm also has Dries Mertens and Insigne (both good players obviously but still) as the 3rd and 4th best players last season.

Don’t conflate better player with better season. I’m not saying Mbappé is the better player, I’m saying that he had a better season. 

Just like I can say this season so far, Eden is having a better season than Mbappé, I’m saying that Mbappé had a better, more iconic season than Eden last year.

Late response @The Skipper my friend.

I'm not sure why you're bringing the CL into it since Hazard didn't even play there. Of course Mbappe had an iconic season. He played for the best goalscoring team in Europe last season. Put Hazard on that Monaco team of last season and this is not debatable. 

I'm also not sure why you're downplaying sites like Squawka. I think these sites give a much fairer representation of a players' season than subjective opinions. Mbappe wasn't even a starting XI player in his team till Christmas/January and Monaco were still the dominant team in France. There were a lot of goalscorers in that team. Falcao, Germain, Lemar even. Bernado Silva.. Hazard along with Fabregas were our only real creative forces last season and Fabregas was barely even a real consistent factor as Conte didn't trust him so it was mainly Hazard. Costa also didn't show up last season while Falcao had one of his best seasons in recent memory. Hazard had way more responsibility to be good and dominated in most of the PL games he played (or was allowed to play by the coaches tactics)

Hazard created more chances than any other player in Europe's top 5 leagues last season.  https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/pIE68Mj2lU6L-wBGAJVziw/Show/European-Team-of-the-Season-ST-Eden-Hazard-(Chelsea) If he were playing for a more free-scoring team or if his teammates (i.e Costa, Willian) converted his chances to goals he could easily have been in double figure assists. Hazard only had 2 assists to Costa last season. This season he has 7 already so he's clearly more comfortable playing next to Morata and (or) through the middle.

 He was statistically the best dribbler in Europe last season . http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2016/185/en/ This is not just aesthestically pleasing but as you know this allows him to create space for his teammates and himself when he's able to dribble past players. It's difficult to quantify with stats how important an effective dribbler is to a team. Look at Zaha for instance. It's not a coincidence that last season when he developed into one of Europe's most effective volume dribblers, his status as a top winger became visible to everyone.

It's very impressive being the most creative and best dribbling winger in Europe. This is why sites like Whoscored and Squawka are relevant to such debates. If it were just about subjective opinions then it's meaningless. Everyone has an opinion that can be argued.

It depends on what the argument is. If you say Mbappe had a more iconic season (in your words) then I'll have to agree. His team reached the semi-finals of the Champions league. Hazard didn't even play the Champions league. So it's a bit of a moot point to bring up in the 1st place. 

However if you're debating if Mbappe had a better season including league football then I'll have to strongly disagree. Mbappe was not even a starter over Germain till January (IIRC) and Monace were still the dominant team in France and topping the table, scoring for fun. Can you imagine what Chelsea will look if Hazard was not a starter will January last season? We would have struggled for top 4 (!) And don't discount what stats based algorithm sites have to say. Insigne and Mertens were superb last season playing for one of Europe's best teams. Mertens had a better season in the league last season than Mbappe. 

 

 

[The Skipper 20,609]

36 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Winning PL is more difficult than winning Ligue 1. Its definately bigger achievement here. Eden didnt even play in CL, so we cant hardly compare their performances there, but Mbappe had excellent CL campaign indeed. 

However simply put, considering they can both play in same position, who would you prefer? 

I would definately not have Mbappe ahead of Eden last season nor this season in Chelsea. Mbappe can score more indeed, but Eden is allround playmaker, dribbler and very decent scorer too. 

And yes Mbappe was 18 last season. If you throw that out, then compare him to other 18 year olds where he easily wins in quality. But when you compare who is best in the world, age has nothing to do with it. 18 or 32, if you are best you are best. Just because someone is younger, doesnt mean he gets different criteria to be judged on. It just tells he has higher potential for the future. 

Hands down last season Cr, Messi, Neymar and Hazard were in league of their own, much like this season but with CR in decline. Then come the likes of Mbappe, Lewandowski, Modric etc. 

Mbappe has serious potential though. But his ability is to be extremly skilled goalscorer and when he bangs 30 a season, then we will talk he fullfilled his potential, and be compared to worlds best. 

Right now, Eden is still ways ahead, as are some other players. Its kind of sad he gets so little recognition even among Chelsea fans. Mbappe considering he is 18 had awesome season, but when comparing him to worlds best, they do it every season, almost every game. 

You don't have to explain that Eden is the better player between the two. I am literally just comparing the individual seasons both players had. You're getting confused. I'm literally just stating that Mbappé had a better season last year because he also had excellent CL performances.

I literally said this:

Don’t conflate better player with better season. I’m not saying Mbappé is the better player, I’m saying that he had a better season.

Also, you're diminishing the fact that Monaco beat PSG to the title... I know Ligue Un isn't PL level but Monaco's feat last season was impressive.