🇧🇷 David Luiz

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Luiz an awful CB? Jesus Christ.

[JDY 1,290]

I've seen the goal a few times. Just two matches ago Terry allowed EXACTLY the same thing to happen, but the opponent - don't remember who - didn't capitalize and headed wide or Cech deflected it... can't remember.

Wasn't two games ago but Terry did the exact same thing against Southampton away in the 0-3 win. It was 0-1 at the time and Lambert should've really scored the header. Nothing was said probably because we won.

[Viper22 2,418]

I'm no expert, but Dante isn't exactly a world-beater is he? He's only been at a top club for a couple of seasons, didn't make his international debut until he was 29 (by which point Luiz was somewhat established since his time in Benfica) and was something of a journeyman before that. He was playing in Belgium until the age of 26.

You're talking about someone who made his international debut about the same age Leon Osman did and who has the same number of international caps as Chris Smalling.

If you want to say that selection for the Brazilian national team should reflect his quality, then you know you're just setting yourself up for people listing players like Andre Santos (24 caps), Jo (14 caps) and Robinho (92 caps) who were all busts in our league.

Conversely Willian and Fernandinho have 9 caps between them. Maybe the Brazilian selectors aren't the bastions of football knowledge you're holding them up to be in support of Luiz, or maybe they are.

All very good points, but I would just say: Dante just isn't very good.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I'm no expert, but Dante isn't exactly a world-beater is he? He's only been at a top club for a couple of seasons, didn't make his international debut until he was 29 (by which point Luiz was somewhat established since his time in Benfica) and was something of a journeyman before that. He was playing in Belgium until the age of 26.

You're talking about someone who made his international debut about the same age Leon Osman did and who has the same number of international caps as Chris Smalling.

If you want to say that selection for the Brazilian national team should reflect his quality, then you know you're just setting yourself up for people listing players like Andre Santos (24 caps), Jo (14 caps) and Robinho (92 caps) who were all busts in our league.

Conversely Willian and Fernandinho have 9 caps between them. Maybe the Brazilian selectors aren't the bastions of football knowledge you're holding them up to be in support of Luiz, or maybe they are.

My point is, if Luiz was such an awful CB he'd not be playing ahead of Dante, Marquinhos, Alex etc. because they are all decent players at the least.

Andre Santos and Jo made most of their caps when they were in Brazil. Robinho was actually good in his first season here in the PL and was Brazil's wonder kid for awhile.

Willian and Fernandinho barely got picked because they played in Ukraine.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Luiz had a good game in my opinion. Cahill's injury & our inability to keep the ball in their half for a sustained period of time was what cost us.

[Fernando 6,585]

He is just better in the midfield then cb.

And he should play more in the mid, simple as that.

The fact that he can play those double role like essien and ivan is great. Therefore I'm against selling him, as these versatile players are important to the team.

[lionsden 4,689]

If he was so awful, why does he get ahead of Dante for his NT? Explain that one.

The same way Cantonna never got a proper look in for the french national team over the years despite his superiority over his peers

Heskey got in ahead of players like Andy Cole, defoe,bent,crouch et al for many years

Higuain ahead of Aguero for many years for the argies.

There are factors that determine a player's hierachy and inclusion in the NT that doesn't neccessarily indicate superiority such as managerial preference (personal choice), reputation (once a player becomes established member of the NT, it's almost impossible to toss them aside even for better options) sometimes it's a case of luck and timing. The case of Torres for the spanish NT proves that point, he remained ahead of superior strikers like Negredo and soldado who were performing better for both club and country in the hierachy for many years/months despite his sharp decline and awful form simply because he had become a prominent member of the team.

then you have the manager or team's philosophy factor where the player who fits the philosophy and able to carry out the tactical instructions better is the preferred choice, this was the case with heskey, doesn't mean he was a superior striker to the competitions he managed to survive through the years .

[hjperdeath 2,226]

The same way Cantonna never got a proper look in for the french national team over the years despite his superiority over his peers

Heskey got in ahead of players like Andy Cole, defoe,bent,crouch et al for many years

Higuain ahead of Aguero for many years and Gago ahead of superior midfielders like Banega for the argies.

There are factors that determine a player's hierachy and inclusion in the NT that doesn't neccessarily indicate superiority such as managerial preference (personal choice), reputation (once a player becomes established member of the NT, it's almost impossible to toss them aside even for better options) sometimes it's a case of luck and timing. The case of Torres for the spanish NT proves that point, he remained ahead of superior strikers like Negredo and soldado who were performing better for both club and country in the hierachy for many years/months despite his sharp decline and awful form simply because he had become a prominent member of the team.

then you have the manager or team's philosophy factor where the player who fits the philosophy and able to carry out the tactical instructions better is the preferred choice, this was the case with heskey, doesn't mean he was a superior striker to the competitions he managed to survive through the years .

Examples of defenders?

[The Skipper 20,609]

The same way Cantonna never got a proper look in for the french national team over the years despite his superiority over his peers

Heskey got in ahead of players like Andy Cole, defoe,bent,crouch et al for many years

Higuain ahead of Aguero for many years and Gago ahead of superior midfielders like Banega for the argies.

There are factors that determine a player's hierachy and inclusion in the NT that doesn't neccessarily indicate superiority such as managerial preference (personal choice), reputation (once a player becomes established member of the NT, it's almost impossible to toss them aside even for better options) sometimes it's a case of luck and timing. The case of Torres for the spanish NT proves that point, he remained ahead of superior strikers like Negredo and soldado who were performing better for both club and country in the hierachy for many years/months despite his sharp decline and awful form simply because he had become a prominent member of the team.

then you have the manager or team's philosophy factor where the player who fits the philosophy and able to carry out the tactical instructions better is the preferred choice, this was the case with heskey, doesn't mean he was a superior striker to the competitions he managed to survive through the years .

Again, my point is that if Luiz was so awful as a CB, why is he even in the NT to begin with?

[lionsden 4,689]

Again, my point is that if Luiz was so awful as a CB, why is he even in the NT to begin with?

Luiz isn't "awful" and that's not the point I'm disputing. but fair enough.

[AswinR 96]

luiz wasnt bad and definitley not awful! Barbara is right terry almost let one in against southampton.....but terry usually does something physical with the player to try and make him miss....the mistake with that goal was why didnt anybody press for the ball before it was crossed in?!..he had a good 2 sec to pass the ball....it was almost like a freekick... who was the midfielder along with iva covering it? wouldnt be surprised if it was mikel!!!

imo we needed a physical midfielder to impose us back on the game.....the last 20-30 mins was all west brom(and they where good!) and the goal was waiting to happen....

we completely lost the midfield battle....think terry might have been able to marshall us better...

imo cech aint the best captain (no abuses plz!) we got....

was it just me or did anybody else feel fatigue amongst players?!!

[bababoom 4,478]

Wasn't two games ago but Terry did the exact same thing against Southampton away in the 0-3 win. It was 0-1 at the time and Lambert should've really scored the header. Nothing was said probably because we won.

Terry did it once, Luiz consistently makes mistakes, that's the difference.

Victor fucking Anichebe had Luiz quaking in his boots...

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Terry did it once, Luiz consistently makes mistakes, that's the difference.

Victor fucking Anichebe had Luiz quaking in his boots...

JT has had his fair share of mistakes as well. He's risen from it, no point in bringing players down like that.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

For all intents and purpose he was. It was only because Terry was injured that he played yesterday and it cost us.

Luiz cost US the win?

Im sorry what did you smoke?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Luiz cost US the win?

Im sorry what did you smoke?

No, the fact that we had to use Luiz instead of Terry cost us. There is a tiny distinction. Let's see if you can find it.

[haranr 485]

For all intents and purpose he was. It was only because Terry was injured that he played yesterday and it cost us.

Play Iva in the CB and Aspi on the right, cole on the left. better than Luiz in the CB especially in a game like this when we need a real leader in the final minutes.

[haranr 485]

Personally I think we should sell him if we get a fantastic offer.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

No, the fact that we had to use Luiz instead of Terry cost us. There is a tiny distinction. Let's see if you can find it.

What did it cost us? The game?

Luiz instead of Terry cost us the game? Not the fact that we chose the wrong approach and didnt score another goal?

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Terry's strength is physical challenges, headers and anticipation, but his weakness is against raw pace.

Cahills strength is last ditch challenges in the box, goal saving tackles but his weakness is people who run at him, but he's developed of late on this.

Luiz strength is his speed and anticipation of passes, but his main weakness is constantly defending crosses. That needs total concentration.

Luiz in midfield is better than ramires on his current form imo.

Lampard doesn't offer the energy mourinho likes in the middle.

We've won 90% of games with luiz in midfield. I think he should be moved there beside matic. He won't have to face his main weakness of constantly defending crosses and is a better partner for matic imo.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

Should definitely start in the midfield from now on.