Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No offence guys, but there are so many missing facts and misconceptions in this debate it's actually funny. Comparing Hezboullah to Al Qaeda

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

If you are wondering,@Fulham Broadway, why we have death sentencing for big numbers, it is because of acts like the one that happened today at Cairo University where three bombs went off. I don't know if the western media covers this or not. But practically this is what the Muslim brotherhood and its members have been doing on weekly basis. Either they destroy something, kill someone, injure many burn places or plant bombs. Only yesterday I read that Cameron has asked for an investigation regarding the presence of the Muslim Brotherhood in England. Don't be surprised mate at the number of death sentences. It will only increase they way things are going unfortunately.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

If you are wondering,@Fulham Broadway, why we have death sentencing for big numbers, it is because of acts like the one that happened today at Cairo University where three bombs went off. I don't know if the western media covers this or not. But practically this is what the Muslim brotherhood and its members have been doing on weekly basis. Either they destroy something, kill someone, injure many burn places or plant bombs. Only yesterday I read that Cameron has asked for an investigation regarding the presence of the Muslim Brotherhood in England. Don't be surprised mate at the number of death sentences. It will only increase they way things are going unfortunately.

Cheers. I am sure you know more about this than me, so all info gratefully acknowledged. Yes I heard on the media yesterday Cameron wanted someone to look into the Brotherhood, and was surprised to hear the Brotherhood had been around since 1922.

As far as the death sentences are concerned, they never act as a deterrent, and actually inflame a situation more. We know dialogue is the only way to solve conflict, but is very difficult when one side is intransigent, or restrained by ideology - as we see on this forum !

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Cheers. I am sure you know more about this than me, so all info gratefully acknowledged. Yes I heard on the media yesterday Cameron wanted someone to look into the Brotherhood, and was surprised to hear the Brotherhood had been around since 1922.

As far as the death sentences are concerned, they never act as a deterrent, and actually inflame a situation more. We know dialogue is the only way to solve conflict, but is very difficult when one side is intransigent, or restrained by ideology - as we see on this forum !

The Muslim Brotherhood was found in 1928 Hassan El Banna, a junior high teacher at the time. The purpose of the brother hood was to bring back the fallen Islamic Ottoman Empire. Egypt was a monarchy at that time. Our country was controlled by Britain at that time too. During this era, Egypt was divided into social classes. Only certain classes would have access to education and good medical treatment and good jobs. One would have to be from a certain family, or of certain heritage or power to be able to go to college for example. My family was one of those who had access to education at college level. The majority of the population were not that fortunate and were poor. Suffering from the wounded pride of the fall of the Islamic Empire, the brotherhood seemed like a good dream and cause for Hassan El Banna and his followers at the time. Islam, (to people who actually bother and read about it with the purpose of understanding it) is a peaceful religion. Like any Christianity and Judaism (according to Muslims) come from God. So it would be no surprise that some of the few teachings would include helping the poor, the orphans, not stealing, no killing,....etc. That was how the Muslim Brotherhood started to preach for their cause. Doing good deeds for the people who were suffering. That way they would gain loyalty and also be able to preach for their cause without being suspicious. After all why would helping people in need, being a good person and wanting your country to be as strong as it was be a bad thing. As the followers grew, Hassan's power grew. Now remember that he was not a Muslim Scholar, he was a teacher who taught some non religion related subject to junior high students. The upper class in Egypt was liberal. Egypt was somehow secular, where religion was practiced only in Mosques or Churchs. Sure it formed a lot of the culture and tradition, but never in the ruling or law at that time. Egyptian law is more or less close to the French law. That was an obstacle in front of the dream of El Banna. We had pubs, we were one of the first countries to have cinemas, we were following Britain. For El Banna to realize his dreams he had to get rid of the western ideology in Egypt. We had a lot of British, French, and Greek in our country all who were there for different reasons. As he preached for his idea amongst the poor and uneducated ( the number of educated were increasing though but still formed the minority), his closest members would demand some physical action to achieve this dream. Hence, the bombings of pubs, theaters and nigh clubs and the atacks on British soldiers. They would start taking quotes from the Quran and put them out of contexts and misinterpret them to persuade people that they are doing would God asked them to. In 1947 a Judge called El-Kazendar carried out a sentence of 25 years in prison for the attacks and bombings. A few months later, they assassinated him and the ones in charge of the assassination were captured. As these acts grew, the King ordered an assassination of El Banna and he was shot and left to die in a hospital without any treatment in 1949. But that was not the end of the brother hood as a successor came in power called Hassan El Hudaiby. He was a moderate Muslim and had a more moderate approach, yet the same dream. He started attracting and preaching the idea to educated people. A key figure was called Sayyed Qodb. Qodb was well educated. He traveled around and got educated in the United States. For some reason he became obsessed and radical. He was the founder of the Jihadi Salafis (basically if you are not a follower of THEIR ideas, concepts and interpretations, you are an infidel and anything can happen to you or your family--------sounds familiar?Does it ring a bell like ElQaida:)). In 1952 there was the Egyptian revolution. The king was exiled and the British soldiers left our country. The Free Officers ( a group of military officers) led by Abdul Nasser where in charge of that revolution. However they did it with the help of the Brotherhood. The Bortherhood demanded to share power in the ruling of the new Republic of Egypt but were denied. The Muslim brotherhood did not take it will and carried out where they left when El Banna was assassinated. El Hudaiby lost control and the radical ideologies if Qodb took over the brotherhood. They felt they were betrayed and they had to retaliate aggressively with blood. In 1954, during the celebration of the revolution, and as Nasser was giving his speech in public in Alexandria, the Brotherhood carried an assassination attempt. Following that a lot of the people of the brotherhood were captured, including Qodb. Some were court martialed, in a very unfair trial, no witnesses, no lawyers, no appeals. It was more like a sentence hearing without a trial. Some executed, some sentenced to prison. Qodb was executed. By all means, it was unfair and there were many innocents amongs the executed and the ones sent to prison ( where they were tortured in a way that would make water boarding a childish act).

When Nasser died El Sadat came to rule. He too was one of the Free Officers. One of the first things he did was to free all the political prisoners and " open a new page". That ofcourse included the members of the brotherhood. The peace treaty between Egypt and Israel made things bad. Not only did most of the Arab nations at the time suspend all their connection with Egypt, but the brother hood and their new division "the Jihadis" were enraged. (Ayman El Zawahri the one leading al Qaida now was on of them:)). They causes uprisings in Egypt. This time the ones caught in the act were fairly, publicly trialed and some were given prison time. Out of fear that they would face the same fate as the ones during Nasser's era, the decided to assassinate Sadat and this time they were successful. The ones who carried the assassination were captured and were not sentenced to death but where in prison for life (Only to be freed by Morsy). They people rejected the brotherhood. They got divided themselves into more groups. Salafis. Jihadis, Hihadi Salafis and others including HAMMAS, But all remain under main ideas put by the Muslim brotherhood.

I am quiet sure there were many times you have heard or perhaps read in the media about racism in Egypt against the Christian Coptics and killings. That was in upper Egypt (on the map that would be south towards Sudan the perfect turf for their ideology and still is along with Sinai). Upper Egypt is the poorest part of Egypt. If you google the income level in these areas you would be shocked. Maybe you heard about Sharm El Sheikh bombings too. Or perhaps the Luxor massacre. All carried out by groups related to the brotherhood. You can only identify a Muslim brotherhood of you were a Muslim. It is because you would have to know Islam in order to see the areas where they misinterpret or try to change. You would have to be able to pick out the extremism and frankly if you are not a Muslim, you will be basing your evaluation upon your own beliefs, values and culture.

With the rise of corruption of Mubarak, increase of poverty, injustice, disease, failing education system in Egypt, people would only become desperate. You recall in western history when the religious people of the church were in power. For example during the era od Henry 8th,Edward 6th, Elizabeth and Mary....etc That is the current situation now in Egypt. People have no hope. So they would turn to their savior, in our case it is God. But because they were not educated, don't have access to books, schools and where not taught how to think, analyze or try to scientifically or objectively to understand they would turn to someone whom they think would know. Usually it is a guy, with a beard, who recites versus from the Quran. They don't even try to question his knowledge or ask about his education or background. If anyone would think to question him, someone from his followers would say " He is a man of God". At that point, their only option is to shut up and either listen or walk away. Being desperate to find a way out of their misery a lot decide to sit and listen. The second revolution was started by Egyptians with no affiliations. People were asking for " Bread, Freedom and Social Equality". The brotherhood did not take part initially. Only when things started to go in favor of the demonstrators did they join. They have stated that during the first days of the revolution and after Mubarak stepped down.

When we finally decided to have the elections it came down to either Morsy (member of the brotherhood) or General Shafik (Closely affiliated with Mubarak and was on of his ministers). When people had to choose, they decided to go for Morsy. It was 51% to 49% in favor of Morsy. People wanted to change and they thought that the Brotherhood was just a myth that Mubarak created in order to stay in power. But they were no myth. When Morsy and the brotherhood made their constitution and people were asked to vote, take a good guess on what basis people voted on:) YES you go to HEAVEN, NO you would go to HELL. Yes, you are a good Muslim and with Islam, No you are against Islam. Can you imagine what destiny will a nation face based on this approach? Furthermore we started allowing more Jihadists, Al Qaida members and other radical groups in our country. We freed their leaders who were in prison and we started giving them weapons. Ofcourse that was one of the major reasons Morsy was kicked out and is being trialed for. With so many people, poor, uneducated and indoctrinated talking is hard. Yet after the second wave of the revolution was carried out ( what the westerns call Coup) the Egyptians were still willing to accept the brotherhood as fellow Egyptians but would ask them to give up their radical ideas and help build the nation that has been in great devastation for decades under Mubarak. They refused and for the first 3 months not a single day would pass without any major killings or destruction. Nearly every day our military is in combat with them and other groups in Sinai. We breached the peace treaty with Israel, and allowed our military deep into Sinai. The Israelis are not complaining. They know the threat very well. But the western media doesn't report that and the Egyptian media is very ignorant of the world's public opinion. We do a bad job telling he world what happens too. These trials are no longer about the political affiliations. They are about the destruction, murders and criminal acts that resulted from this politica, religious division.

I was trying to give you a brief summary and that is hard to do. The History of the Brotherhood so long and full of events that would be written in books. Feel free to ask about specifics I know a lot about this matter.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

@Mohammed Seif Thanks. Quite comprehensive history. It is sad that the seeds seem to be sewn when colonialism exists, and we can' t go back. Yes I know islam is a religion of peace. I work with a guy who's family have been killed by US drones on the Pakistan/ Afghan border, yet he has no thoughts of retribution.

The poverty in Egypt is so wrong, a large country with many resources. This economic climate is also a recipe for revolution- social media can act as a catalyst. I was in Egypt a few months ago - yes youve guessd Sharm al Sheik, the guys in the hotel were mainly from Alexandria, and rural areas, and hardly earned anything. They were friendly, and jokingly I think, ! Kept asking if they could marry my daughter. They were really keen to come to the UK, but I had to explain how comparatively, everything , rent, food, bills etc is expensive here compared to Egypt. There were speed bumps on the roads etc, the legacy of the terrorist attacks a few years ago, and there was a major security alert when i started wandering around the wrong hotel. Overall though, loved it and would go back

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

@Mohammed Seif Thanks. Quite comprehensive history. It is sad that the seeds seem to be sewn when colonialism exists, and we can' t go back. Yes I know islam is a religion of peace. I work with a guy who's family have been killed by US drones on the Pakistan/ Afghan border, yet he has no thoughts of retribution.

The poverty in Egypt is so wrong, a large country with many resources. This economic climate is also a recipe for revolution- social media can act as a catalyst. I was in Egypt a few months ago - yes youve guessd Sharm al Sheik, the guys in the hotel were mainly from Alexandria, and rural areas, and hardly earned anything. They were friendly, and jokingly I think, ! Kept asking if they could marry my daughter. They were really keen to come to the UK, but I had to explain how comparatively, everything , rent, food, bills etc is expensive here compared to Egypt. There were speed bumps on the roads etc, the legacy of the terrorist attacks a few years ago, and there was a major security alert when i started wandering around the wrong hotel. Overall though, loved it and would go back

I am from Alexandria. Sharm Sheikh is one of my favourite destinations. like many other places it should be than this though. Hope you did a bit of diving and snorkeling there a bit of safari too

As much as I am tempted to blame others, but it is wrong. Can't blame colonization. It is not a good thing at all, but still can't put the blame there. I blame people for not willing to try and think. See what good thhey would get out of certain actions and behavior. My friend works there in Sharm too I know how it is for the workers there. Believe it or not, as poor as they might seem to you, but those are not the really poor ones. They would be considered well off compared to the ones I am talking about. And yes they were joking a lot. It is our nature as Egyptians, we most joke all the time, even during disasters. We will make a joke of our sufferings and laugh at it from the heart. Hope you you would visit Egypt again and see other places. It is always an honor

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

I am from Alexandria. Sharm Sheikh is one of my favourite destinations. like many other places it should be than this though. Hope you did a bit of diving and snorkeling there a bit of safari too

As much as I am tempted to blame others, but it is wrong. Can't blame colonization. It is not a good thing at all, but still can't put the blame there. I blame people for not willing to try and think. See what good thhey would get out of certain actions and behavior. My friend works there in Sharm too I know how it is for the workers there. Believe it or not, as poor as they might seem to you, but those are not the really poor ones. They would be considered well off compared to the ones I am talking about. And yes they were joking a lot. It is our nature as Egyptians, we most joke all the time, even during disasters. We will make a joke of our sufferings and laugh at it from the heart. Hope you you would visit Egypt again and see other places. It is always an honor

Yes mate would go back. Did a bit of diving (will do the PADI course next time), loads of snorkellig -the coral reefs are great.(Ras mohammed) Stayed in a bedouins tent, Quadbiking etc -all the usual tourist stuff. The desert should be made into a proper tourist business -with a slant on the eco/ preservation side of things, would attract a lot of naturalists etc

[Peppen 934]

Dunno if it's fake, but wtf...

[psgfanxx 18]

Watch that brilliant video:

Take that disgusting piece of zionist propaganda and kindly shove it up your ....

[bushman 2,043]

Take that disgusting piece of zionist propaganda and kindly shove it up your ....

Should we be surprised? Sorry, but I am not. I have seen these people doing it for years.

[psgfanxx 18]

yeah if it helps you sleep well at night after bombing kids with white phosphorus

listen buddy, your country's time will definitely come whether tomorrow or in a decade or in 100 years

palis and other arabs will never forget

karma is a bitch

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Seriously people need to learn how to talk to each other. Going at each other makes it a street fight, or a childish act. It is such attitude that doesn't allow us to talk properly and reach solutions. People need to know how to put an argument rather than insulting each other and whining.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Seriously people need to learn how to talk to each other. Going at each other makes it a street fight, or a childish act. It is such attitude that doesn't allow us to talk properly and reach solutions. People need to know how to put an argument rather than insulting each other and whining.

It's hard to hear you opponent or really anything when you're screaming insults at them.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

It's hard to hear you opponent or really anything when you're screaming insults at them.

True, everyone gets defensive man. The funny thing is that no side has the complete truth and knows it all. Just nonsense man.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

Both sides are fed propaganda, I think the Palestinian side is a more desperate situation because of sanctions/poverty, but the only way is dialogue not abuse or killing - you can not understand anothe man until you walk in his shoes -the danger is when some parties on one side do not want a settlement...and have a vested interest in perpetuating conflict -eg The arms industry and its billionaire shareholders