Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 03/01/2020 at 22:47, oldportblue said:

iran has been overtly aggressive towards US for years... benghazi consulate attack in 2012, taking US navy offciers hostage a few years later, taking down US drone, attack on US consulate a few days ago...

They were warned numerous times, especially by trump after the drone attack that there would be repercussions. They didn't listen, thought it was a bluff and decided to attack a US consulate so US kills the leading war monger of the region who's been sowing terror and killings for years in ME, suleimani.

and now ppl are saying the US is pushing for war after they've shown restraint for years and iran has been antagonizing and attacking US for years lmao

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fuck the US (especially Trump who is Israel's and KSA's bitch) and the UK and Israel and the butchers in Saudi Arabia vis-a-vis Iran

They fucking brought this last 40 years of shit (including the 2 Iraq wars as they initially backed Saddam Hussein against Iran) on themselves by the CIA war crime/coup d'état of the democratically elected and secular Mohammad Mosaddegh in the 1953 Operation Ajax.

They propped up the monster Shah Reza Pahlavi, who brutalised the country with terror via the SAVAK for decades, whilst selling off so much of its oil and other assets to the West

That in turn lead to the 1979 Islamic Revolution and the empowerment of Ayatollah Khomeini (who was also aided by other Western elements in a huge power struggle) and his successors

At least Obama had made some progress with one of the few good things he did in his entire 8 years (the Iran nuclear treaty)

But of course Israel and the KSA had fit and found a willing and corrupt puppet in Trump who has now destabilised the entire Middle East yet again

[Vesper 29,406]

 

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 04/01/2020 at 01:53, Vesper said:

fuck the US (especially Trump who is Israel's and KSA's bitch) and the UK and Israel and the butchers in Saudi Arabia vis-a-vis Iran

They fucking brought this last 40 years of shit (including the 2 Iraq wars as they initially backed Saddam Hussein against Iran) on themselves by the CIA war crime/coup d'état of the democratically elected and secular Mohammad Mosaddegh in the 1953 Operation Ajax.

They propped up the monster Shah Reza Pahlavi, who brutalised the country with terror via the SAVAK for decades, whilst selling off so much of its oil and other assets to the West

That in turn lead to the 1979 Islamic Revolution and the empowerment of Ayatollah Khomeini (who was also aided by other Western elements in a huge power struggle) and his successors

At least Obama had made some progress with one of the few good things he did in his entire 8 years (the Iran nuclear treaty)

But of course Israel and the KSA had fit and found a willing and corrupt puppet in Trump who has now destabilised the entire Middle East yet again

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One thing I don't agree is the last part. 

Destabilize the middle east? 

When has it not been especially in a country like Iran that does not give freedom to its people?

My Christian brothers in Iran are not able to live in peace. 

As long as there's no freedom for people to have the freedom to worship their will never be stability. 

And tell me how will you solve the problem of this persecution for my Christian brothers? 

 

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 04/01/2020 at 11:18, Fernando said:

One thing I don't agree is the last part. 

Destabilize the middle east? 

When has it not been especially in a country like Iran that does not give freedom to its people?

My Christian brothers in Iran are not able to live in peace. 

As long as there's no freedom for people to have the freedom to worship their will never be stability. 

 

 

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Iran's entire post-1953 history would be massively different and far far better if the West had not perpetrated Operation Ajax and then propped up the murderous Shah for decades, That set into motion the undercurrents that led to the rise of the Islamic Revolution.

The entire events of the past 67 years is all on them. Christians (and everyone else) would not have had to live under the boot-heels of dictators, both royal despots and then Shi'ite fundamentalists that came to the fore because of the first type.

 

 

BLOWBACK: HOW A CIA-BACKED COUP LED TO THE RISE OF IRAN’S AYATOLLAHS

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/05/iran-cia-coup-mossadegh-ayatollah/

WHY CAN’T IRAN have a secular, democratic government? It’s a question Americans often ask of their longstanding Middle East adversary — especially when they see images of anti-regime protesters taking to the streets of major Iranian cities and towns to demand greater freedom.

Unlike citizens of the Islamic Republic, however, citizens of the United States tend to have short memories. The historical reality is that Iran did have a secular, democratic government, led by Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh between 1951 and 1953 — but Mossadegh was removed from power in a coup organized and funded by the CIA and Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, also known as MI6.

With a handful of exceptions — Madeleine Albright in 2000, Barack Obama in 2009 and 2015 — most mainstream U.S. politicians have little to say about any of this sordid history. In Washington, D.C., Iranian hostility toward the U.S. has long been treated as inexplicable and irrational, while the CIA’s role in the 1953 coup — which set off a chain of events that resulted in the rise of Iran’s ayatollahs and the Islamic Revolution of 1979 — has vanished into a memory hole.

It was left to Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, of all people, to remind Americans of the catastrophic consequences of that coup in a televised debate with Hillary Clinton during the Democratic presidential primaries in February 2016:

Mossadegh back in 1953. Nobody knows who Mossadegh was. Democratically elected prime minister of Iran. He was overthrown by British and American interests because he threatened oil interests of the British. And as a result of that, the Shah of Iran came in, terrible dictator, and as a result of that, you had the Iranian Revolution coming in, and that’s where we are today. Unintended consequences.

What Sanders called “unintended consequences,” the CIA calls “blowback.”

In fact, as I explain in this week’s episode of my six-part video series on blowback, the CIA first coined the term in the wake of Operation Ajax — the agency’s codename for the coup against Mossadegh. “Possibilities of blowback against the United States should always be in the back of the minds of all CIA officers involved in this type of operation,” noted an internal CIA lessons-learned report on Mossadegh’s fall in 1954. “Few, if any, operations are as explosive as this type.”

Yet the U.S. government never got out of the regime change business in the subsequent decades, and continued to orchestrate coups, assassinate foreign leaders, topple elected governments, and invade sovereign nations. Even today, the hawks in the Trump administration are bent on changing the government in Tehran. Again. Have they learned nothing? Consider the verdict of Michael Morell, former deputy director of the CIA, on the consequences of a U.S.-backed regime change effort inside the Islamic Republic: “Not only are you unlikely to be successful, but you are likely to have huge blowback.”

There’s that word again: blowback. But is anyone in this administration even listening?

video

 

The historical reality is that Iran had a secular, democratic government, led by Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh between 1951 and 1953 — but Mossadegh was removed from power in a coup organized and funded by the CIA and Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, also known as MI6. With a handful of exceptions, most mainstream U.S. politicians have little to say about any of this sordid history. In Washington, D.C., Iranian hostility toward the U.S. has long been treated as inexplicable and irrational, while the CIA’s role in the 1953 coup — which set off a chain of events that resulted in the rise of Iran’s ayatollahs and the Islamic Revolution of 1979 — has vanished into a memory hole. Hosted by Mehdi Hasan (https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan), "Iran, the Ayatollahs, and the CIA" is the third episode of a six-part Blowback series for The Intercept. Mehdi Hasan will examine key examples of blowback in greater detail and explore how foreign policy decisions by the U.S. and its allies often produce blowback and so-called unintended consequences. The Intercept is an investigative nonprofit news organization dedicated to producing fearless, adversarial journalism. We believe journalism should bring transparency and accountability to powerful governmental and corporate institutions.

 

 

 

 

I highly recommend Chalmers Johnson's 4 part Blowback Series to gain a far fuller picture on the modus operandi of Western empire

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson#The_Blowback_series

 

 

http://americanempireproject.com/authors/chalmers-johnson/

[Fernando 6,533]

Wow good stuff at @Vesper

So basically our people got sold for oil money. 

Ah the love of money, it does not surprise me as that is one of the biggest topic that Jesus often spoke about, to guard yourself against greed and love for money. 

Thanks for your time and information. 

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 03/01/2020 at 22:47, oldportblue said:

iran has been overtly aggressive towards US for years... benghazi consulate attack in 2012, taking US navy offciers hostage a few years later, taking down US drone, attack on US consulate a few days ago...

They were warned numerous times, especially by trump after the drone attack that there would be repercussions. They didn't listen, thought it was a bluff and decided to attack a US consulate so US kills the leading war monger of the region who's been sowing terror and killings for years in ME, suleimani.

and now ppl are saying the US is pushing for war after they've shown restraint for years and iran has been antagonizing and attacking US for years lmao

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I dont even know where to begin to refute your claims, its like its taken directly from CNN. Point the fingers at Iran, the big bad bully, while Us Israel Saudi etc are saints and so peace loving. 
 

  On 04/01/2020 at 01:53, Vesper said:

fuck the US (especially Trump who is Israel's and KSA's bitch) and the UK and Israel and the butchers in Saudi Arabia vis-a-vis Iran

They fucking brought this last 40 years of shit (including the 2 Iraq wars as they initially backed Saddam Hussein against Iran) on themselves by the CIA war crime/coup d'état of the democratically elected and secular Mohammad Mosaddegh in the 1953 Operation Ajax.

They propped up the monster Shah Reza Pahlavi, who brutalised the country with terror via the SAVAK for decades, whilst selling off so much of its oil and other assets to the West

That in turn lead to the 1979 Islamic Revolution and the empowerment of Ayatollah Khomeini (who was also aided by other Western elements in a huge power struggle) and his successors

At least Obama had made some progress with one of the few good things he did in his entire 8 years (the Iran nuclear treaty)

But of course Israel and the KSA had fit and found a willing and corrupt puppet in Trump who has now destabilised the entire Middle East yet again

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Spot on.

  On 03/01/2020 at 22:09, Fernando said:

So how would you fix the problems in Iran?

Because as you mentioned, anyone that stands up to them gets kill in Iran. 

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It can only be fixed if the masses get out at the same time, not 50K. Then they are fucked.

[Fernando 6,533]

So far with the current events it seems like usa will go to war with Iran. 

But things can change if Trump gets impeach or does not get reelected.... But then again war can take place in a very short time and continue into the new presidency. 

That being said if war does start with usa and Iran I don't think it will be easy for usa. 

The two options I foresee:

1. A long war that ends up being like Vietnam and in the end its nothing but lose with no clear winner. 

2. Usa lose the battle. 

I tend to hinge on the first one, and after another war like that usa will no longer want to be involved in any future conflict in the middle east. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 05/01/2020 at 15:04, Fernando said:

So far with the current events it seems like usa will go to war with Iran. 

But things can change if Trump gets impeach or does not get reelected.... But then again war can take place in a very short time and continue into the new presidency. 

That being said if war does start with usa and Iran I don't think it will be easy for usa. 

The two options I foresee:

1. A long war that ends up being like Vietnam and in the end its nothing but lose with no clear winner. 

2. Usa lose the battle. 

I tend to hinge on the first one, and after another war like that usa will no longer want to be involved in any future conflict in the middle east. 

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It will end very bloody and I for one cannot see US troops in Iran, would be highly inept of them if they did. They will try to bomb Iran all day, Iran will try to take out the Arabs, the US fleet and so on.

 

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 05/01/2020 at 15:14, Atomiswave said:

It will end very bloody and I for one cannot see US troops in Iran, would be highly inept of them if they did. They will try to bomb Iran all day, Iran will try to take out the Arabs, the US fleet and so on.

 

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Interesting stuff, guy is very well understood of politics. 

It seems like he's coming to the same conclusion, a war will achieved nothing kinda like a Vietnam War. And one of last important aspect, Iran will get more powerful with the nuclear weapons. 

And it already started:

Iran rolls back nuclear deal commitments

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51001167

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 05/01/2020 at 20:34, Fernando said:

Interesting stuff, guy is very well understood of politics. 

It seems like he's coming to the same conclusion, a war will achieved nothing kinda like a Vietnam War. And one of last important aspect, Iran will get more powerful with the nuclear weapons. 

And it already started:

Iran rolls back nuclear deal commitments

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51001167

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Yeah we havent seen the last of this sadly. What US did was illegal, its an act of bullyness, an act that they give 2 shit about the rules set in place. Its a message to the World that they give no fucks, they will do what they want basically. Imagine if another country assasinated a US general like that, what would the response be? Im glad so many nations have condemned this act but óf course still too many supporting it and kissing that ass.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 06/01/2020 at 12:05, Atomiswave said:

Yeah we havent seen the last of this sadly. What US did was illegal, its an act of bullyness, an act that they give 2 shit about the rules set in place. Its a message to the World that they give no fucks, they will do what they want basically. Imagine if another country assasinated a US general like that, what would the response be? Im glad so many nations have condemned this act but óf course still too many supporting it and kissing that ass.

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It starts a war. We can only see what will happen, if Iran will pursue a war or not. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 06/01/2020 at 16:46, Fernando said:

It starts a war. We can only see what will happen, if Iran will pursue a war or not. 

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We will see mate, but I expect some kind of response and depending how big the response is will determine if war is on the way or not. Maybe its more likely Iran says fuck it and build them nukes in no time. They have the war heads, they have the know how and tech to build them rather fast.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 06/01/2020 at 16:51, Atomiswave said:

We will see mate, but I expect some kind of response and depending how big the response is will determine if war is on the way or not. Maybe its more likely Iran says fuck it and build them nukes in no time. They have the war heads, they have the know how and tech to build them rather fast.

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I think Israel will attack if Iran gets close to finish the nukes. At least the areas where their facility are. 

And then we will see Iran come against Israel with everything. 

But just like usa this also depends on Netanyahu. Anyone but him will do nothing, but Netanyahu will push to attack before Iran finish the nukes. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 06/01/2020 at 16:59, Fernando said:

I think Israel will attack if Iran gets close to finish the nukes. At least the areas where their facility are. 

And then we will see Iran come against Israel with everything. 

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Israel wont do it alone though, they cant afford it. It will be ugly if that happens.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 06/01/2020 at 17:02, Atomiswave said:

Israel wont do it alone though, they cant afford it. It will be ugly if that happens.

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I edit my statement, but I see that more then likely with Netanyahu. He will attack Iran if they are close to finishing the nuke. 

But right now Israel are facing something similar to USA with the reelection. Don't know if he will continue just like in usa with Trump. 

So this year will definitely decide many things. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 06/01/2020 at 17:04, Fernando said:

I edit my statement, but I see that more then likely with Netanyahu. He will attack Iran if they are close to finishing the nuke. 

But right now Israel are facing something similar to USA with the reelection. Don't know if he will continue just like in usa with Trump. 

So this year will definitely decide many things. 

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Such imagery is also good for them, takes the attention away from the shit they are accused of, make no mistake this kill was tactical and political. They have no right to attack Iran beacuse of nukes. Iran hasnt attacked anyone for several 100's years. If they want nukes its their right. US have over 40 bases around Iran, constantly has to be on the look out Iran.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 06/01/2020 at 17:11, Atomiswave said:

Such imagery is also good for them, takes the attention away from the shit they are accused of, make no mistake this kill was tactical and political. They have no right to attack Iran beacuse of nukes. Iran hasnt attacked anyone for several 100's years. If they want nukes its their right. US have over 40 bases around Iran, constantly has to be on the look out Iran.

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I don't agree on this. 

I don't think anyone should have the right to this kinda of destructive weapon. 

However right now it's the lesser of two evils. That many nations have it for their own protection you would assume......because no one should be that dumb to launch a first strike. It would be the end of humanity with all these nuclear weapons.  

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 06/01/2020 at 17:29, Fernando said:

I don't agree on this. 

I don't think anyone should have the right to this kinda of destructive weapon. 

However right now it's the lesser of two evils. That many nations have it for their own protection you would assume......because no one should be that dumb to launch a first strike. Because then it will be the end of humanity. 

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Well once you use nukes on somebody then your a target yourself. I agree nukes should be abolished but it wont. But in this case and the world we find ourselves in then I would say Iran has the right.