Politics & Stuff

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

I'm totally devastated it feels like as if Chelsea have lost 6-0 to Spurs in the champions league final. Labour losing all their seats to the Tories so how people voted for Corbyn in 2017 and yesterday Johnson is beyond me. The tories will now inflict the most draconian measures upon the country and will be unopposed in doing so it's fucking depressing. When you have such a terrible campaign as they did and they still win by 80 seats it's actually terrifying for future elections god help the young they'll have to live with this calamity for decades.

[Vesper 27,310]

1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

I'm totally devastated it feels like as if Chelsea have lost 6-0 to Spurs in the champions league final. Labour losing all their seats to the Tories so how people voted for Corbyn in 2017 and yesterday Johnson is beyond me. The tories will now inflict the most draconian measures upon the country and will be unopposed in doing so it's fucking depressing. When you have such a terrible campaign as they did and they still win by 80 seats it's actually terrifying for future elections god help the young they'll have to live with this calamity for decades.

I lost my Labour MP in Kensington,  Emma Dent Coad. She won by 20 votes in 2017 (5 from my family). First time ever that modern constituency was not fucking Tory blue. Now that twat ex Tory Sam Gyimah ran as a Lib Dem on a vanity play and Coad lost by 150 votes.

Those cunt Lib Dems were plastering all of South Kensington with their tactical voting bullshit!

They had ZERO chance to win and now we lost our only ever decent MP. Fuck them to hell! SO GLAD that bitch Jo Swinson went down up in sweaty land! 'When I am PM in 5 weeks' Swinson! The brass balls on her Tory enabling arse!

Just devastated. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Im sorry but did you guys really think you have any say on whom becomes you leader and next PM and presidents etc? You dont. Its an illusion they have given us that we matter, that we have a say, We dont.

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

44 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Im sorry but did you guys really think you have any say on whom becomes you leader and next PM and presidents etc? You dont. Its an illusion they have given us that we matter, that we have a say, We dont.

Well you do wonder. Johnson refused to release the MI5 report into Russian meddling into the Referendum. Also 9 billionaire Russian oligarchs have donated hundreds of thousands to the tory party. Now, would they be allowed to do that without the approval of Putin ?

Cummings, Johnsons  'advisor' lived for four years in Moscow. Arron Banks financer of the Leave campaign has a Russian wife, and when he attended the Commons Select Committee said he only visited the Russian Embassy 'once for a boozy lunch' during the Referendum campaign. It transpired he visited 8 times -why lie ? What does Russia want - to break up the EU and the UK. Looks as though they will get their wish with Scotland breaking away as well.

[manpe 10,855]

8 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Well you do wonder. Johnson refused to release the MI5 report into Russian meddling into the Referendum. Also 9 billionaire Russian oligarchs have donated hundreds of thousands to the tory party. Now, would they be allowed to do that without the approval of Putin ?

Cummings, Johnsons  'advisor' lived for four years in Moscow. Arron Banks financer of the Leave campaign has a Russian wife, and when he attended the Commons Select Committee said he only visited the Russian Embassy 'once for a boozy lunch' during the Referendum campaign. It transpired he visited 8 times -why lie ? What does Russia want - to break up the EU and the UK. Looks as though they will get their wish with Scotland breaking away as well.

He is going for the pillars of NATO and EU - USA and UK. Once they have been irreparably damaged, their allies will fall in a domino effect - that I believe is the ultimate goal. Robert Mueller said Russians are coming back to meddle in the next elections as well, and they don't do it only in the States, they do it in a lot places... As an Estonian, I will be terrified if Trump gets re-elected. 

[Vesper 27,310]

49 minutes ago, manpe said:

He is going for the pillars of NATO and EU - USA and UK. Once they have been irreparably damaged, their allies will fall in a domino effect - that I believe is the ultimate goal. Robert Mueller said Russians are coming back to meddle in the next elections as well, and they don't do it only in the States, they do it in a lot places... As an Estonian, I will be terrified if Trump gets re-elected. 

yep,the Baltics square in the crosshairs 

 

on a lighter note

 

Eesti kiirabi tunnuslause:

'Aeg parandab kõik haavad'.

 

 

 

[Vesper 27,310]

Britain’s election
Victory for Boris Johnson’s all-new Tories

The Conservatives’ capture of the north points to a realignment in British politics. Will it last?

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/13/victory-for-boris-johnsons-all-new-tories

BRITAIN’S ELECTION on December 12th was the most unpredictable in years—yet in the end the result was crushingly one-sided. As we went to press the next morning, Boris Johnson’s Conservative Party was heading for a majority of well over 70, the largest Tory margin since the days of Margaret Thatcher. Labour, meanwhile, was expecting its worst result since the 1930s. Mr Johnson, who diced with the possibility of being one of Britain’s shortest-serving prime ministers, is now all-powerful.

The immediate consequence is that, for the first time since the referendum of 2016, it is clear that Britain will leave the European Union. By the end of January it will be out—though Brexit will still be far from “done”, as Mr Johnson promises. But the Tories’ triumph also shows something else: that a profound realignment in British politics has taken place. Mr Johnson’s victory saw the Conservatives taking territory that Labour had held for nearly a century. The party of the rich buried Labour under the votes of working-class northerners and Midlanders.

After a decade of governments struggling with weak or non-existent majorities, Britain now has a prime minister with immense personal authority and a free rein in Parliament. Like Thatcher and Tony Blair, who also enjoyed large majorities, Mr Johnson has the chance to set Britain on a new course—but only if his government can also grapple with some truly daunting tasks.

A cold coming they had of it
On a rainswept night the Conservatives marched into constituencies long seen as Labour strongholds (see Britain section). Blyth Valley, an ex-mining community in the north-east where Tories have for generations been the enemy, fell before midnight. Wrexham, Labour turf for more than 80 years, declared for the Conservatives at 2am. Great Grimsby, a struggling northern port held by Labour since the second world war, was taken soon after. By dawn it was clear that the “red wall” of Labour constituencies, which stretched unbroken from north Wales to Yorkshire, had been demolished.

Mr Johnson was lucky in his opponent. Jeremy Corbyn, Labour’s leader, was shunned by voters, who doubted his promises on the economy, rejected his embrace of dictators and terrorists and were unconvinced by his claims to reject anti-Semitism.

But the result also vindicates Mr Johnson’s high-risk strategy of targeting working-class Brexit voters. Some of them switched to the Tories, others to the Brexit Party, but the effect was the same: to deprive Labour of its majority in dozens of seats.

Five years ago, under David Cameron, the Conservative Party was a broadly liberal outfit, preaching free markets as it embraced gay marriage and environmentalism. Mr Johnson has yanked it to the left on economics, promising public spending and state aid for struggling industries, and to the right on culture, calling for longer prison sentences and complaining that European migrants “treat the UK as though it’s basically part of their own country.” Some liberal Tories hate the Trumpification of their party (the Conservative vote went down in some wealthy southern seats). But the election showed that they were far outnumbered by blue-collar defections from Labour farther north.

This realignment may well last. The Tories’ new prospectus is calculated to take advantage of a long-term shift in voters’ behaviour which predates the Brexit referendum. Over several decades, economic attitudes have been replaced by cultural ones as the main predictor of party affiliation. Even at the last election, in 2017, working-class voters were almost as likely as professional ones to back the Tories. Mr Johnson rode a wave that was already washing over Britain. Donald Trump has shown how conservative positions on cultural matters can hold together a coalition of rich and poor voters. And Mr Johnson has an extra advantage in that his is unlikely to face strong opposition soon. Labour looks certain to be in the doldrums for a long time (see Bagehot). The Liberal Democrats had a dreadful night in which their leader, Jo Swinson, lost her seat.

Yet the Tories’ mighty new coalition is sure to come under strain. With its mix of blue collars and red trousers, the new party is ideologically incoherent. The northern votes are merely on loan. To keep them Mr Johnson will have to give people what they want—which means infrastructure, spending on health and welfare, and a tight immigration policy. By contrast, the Tories’ old supporters in the south believe that leaving the EU will unshackle Britain and usher in an era of freewheeling globalism. Mr Johnson will doubtless try to paper over the differences. However, whereas Mr Trump’s new coalition in America has been helped along by a roaring economy, post-Brexit Britain is likely to stall.

Any vulnerabilities in the Tories’ new coalition will be ruthlessly found out by the trials ahead. Brexit will formally happen next month, to much fanfare. Yet the difficult bit, negotiating the future relationship with Europe, lies ahead. The hardest arguments, about whether to forgo market access for the ability to deregulate, have not begun. Mr Johnson will either have to face down his own Brexit ultras or hammer the economy with a minimal EU deal.

As he negotiates the exit from one union he will face a crisis in another. The Scottish National Party won a landslide this week, taking seats from the Tories, and expects to do well in Scottish elections in 2021. After Brexit, which Scots voted strongly against, the case for an independence referendum will be powerful. Yet Mr Johnson says he will not allow one. Likewise in Northern Ireland, neither unionists nor republicans can abide the prime minister’s Brexit plans. All this will add fuel to a fight over whether powers returning from Brussels reside in Westminster or Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh. The judiciary is likely to have to step in—and face a hostile prime minister whose manifesto promises that the courts will not be used “to conduct politics by another means or to create needless delays”.

Led all that way for birth or death?
There is no doubting the strength of Mr Johnson’s position. He has established his personal authority by running a campaign that beat most expectations. His party has been purged of rebels, and their places taken by a new intake that owes its loyalty to him personally. Having lost control of Parliament for years, Downing Street is once more in charge.

Mr Johnson will be jubilant about the scale of his victory, and understandably so. But he should remember that the Labour Party’s red wall has only lent him its vote. The political realignment he has pulled off is still far from secure.

 

This article appeared in the Leaders section of the print edition under the headline "Victory for Boris Johnson’s all-new Tories"

 

[cosmicway 1,252]

THE ELECTION RESULT

A big win for Boris but the non-brexit parties polled over 50%
Brexit is on however and it will ruin Britain for sure.

But what I don't understand about the opposition is why all this tribalism when Johnson was the common great enemy ?
They could have arranged everything re. tactical voting among themsleves. and in this way no one would lose a seat he was close to winning ! FPTP works that way.
Could Johnson have won if there was 100% tactical voting ?
The final party pecentages indicate otherwise.
It is perhaps mathematically possible -like with Trump and Hillary Clinton- but it looks to me extremely improbable.

After all, neither Labour nor the Liberals were anywhere near absolute majority and both were supposed to be looking forward to a post-election pact.
What else ?
No government ?
Boris pm not by winning but "praeses honoris causa" ?

It was not something unexpected - like say the 2016 referendum result was unexpected - so I just fail to understand who was responsible and why.
Please help me !

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/12/13/adam-boultons-david-cameron-gag-silly-funny/

[Vesper 27,310]

1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/12/13/adam-boultons-david-cameron-gag-silly-funny/

classic banter!!!!!! 

fuck that pig fucker Cameron!

[manpe 10,855]

You know I'm not British but I have a bit of interest in foreign politics and I can't understand how people can support Johnson so overwhelmingly... Same with Trump in America. How are people so influenced by cheap populism I will never understand, there is a severe general lack of intelligence among people... Not to say that I am intelligent or anything, but come on... their shenanigans are so painfully obvious, zero sincerity.

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

5 hours ago, manpe said:

I can't understand how people can support Johnson so overwhelmingly...

1. Idiots think Brexit is the utopian dream. I have asked many what is so good about it ?  ' freedom, taking control of our borders, not controlled by the EU.' are the standard answers.

2. 85% of the media here is owned by right wing billionaire tax avoiders that donate to the tory party. They have run an endless smear campaign with 15-20 anti- Corbyn stories every day for the last three months.

3. Any party that supports a Palestinian state has no chance.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

5 hours ago, manpe said:

You know I'm not British but I have a bit of interest in foreign politics and I can't understand how people can support Johnson so overwhelmingly... Same with Trump in America. How are people so influenced by cheap populism I will never understand, there is a severe general lack of intelligence among people... Not to say that I am intelligent or anything, but come on... their shenanigans are so painfully obvious, zero sincerity.

Thats beacuse we have become sheeps......people are putting faith and their trust in the hands of criminals and liers. People simply accept the reality with which has been presented to them.

People believe they have a say, so they have all these campaigns and drama and dissing for entertainment. In reality they are all puppets, the real power are with those behind the scenes and you will never see them.

[Vesper 27,310]

38 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

1. Idiots think Brexit is the utopian dream. I have asked many what is so good about it ?  ' freedom, taking control of our borders, not controlled by the EU.' are the standard answers.

2. 85% of the media here is owned by right wing billionaire tax avoiders that donate to the tory party. They have run an endless smear campaign with 15-20 anti- Corbyn stories every day for the last three months.

3. Any party that supports a Palestinian state has no chance.

Corbyn became an MP in 1983. He stood for the Labour leadership in May 2015.

UK press articles containing:

'Jeremy Corbyn' and 'anti-semitism' before 1 May 2015 = 18

after 1 May 2015 = 10,943

NB: None of the 18 articles prior to 1 May 2015 accused Corbyn of anti-semitism.

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

11 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Corbyn became an MP in 1983. He stood for the Labour leadership in May 2015.

UK press articles containing:

'Jeremy Corbyn' and 'anti-semitism' before 1 May 2015 = 18

after 1 May 2015 = 10,943

NB: None of the 18 articles prior to 1 May 2015 accused Corbyn of anti-semitism.

 

Shocking stats

[manpe 10,855]

13 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Corbyn became an MP in 1983. He stood for the Labour leadership in May 2015.

UK press articles containing:

'Jeremy Corbyn' and 'anti-semitism' before 1 May 2015 = 18

after 1 May 2015 = 10,943

NB: None of the 18 articles prior to 1 May 2015 accused Corbyn of anti-semitism.

 

That's horrible... Who controls the information, controls the people.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

All your news channel agencies are controlled by the higher ups I talked about. You receive the info as they want it too, whether true or false.

[Vesper 27,310]

44 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

All your news channel agencies are controlled by the higher ups I talked about. You receive the info as they want it too, whether true or false.

yes, and they always play the old false dichotomy game

the false right wing versus the false left wing paradigm

the 2 things you can never cross are the banksters and the war/security/surveillance state

we have a political party here in Sweden that for 2 elections (2002 and especially 2006) had the best political platform I have even seen

The Swedish Green Party (Miljöpartiet de gröna)

but in September 2008, right after I had turned 16 a few months before, they had an internal election and switched from being fairly Euro-sceptic to full blown in favour of a complete integration.

then, after the 2014 election, they went from being sensible on immigration to full blown in favour of radical increasing refugee intake, which had a disastrous result and help lead to rise of the far right Sweden Democrats after the Syria nightmare crisis (it smashed us and Germany the worst)

I have no real home now politically here or in the UK (I vote Labour in the UK, but I am not a full blown socialist at all, and I also detest Blairite neoliberalism)

I suppose you could call me a left libertarian but I also have some dirigisme leanings as well, in terms of over-arching directional steerage by the state (just done at a more decentralised paradigm in terms of actual implementation than a traditional dirigisme proponent would put forth. I believe in a robust BUT also highly regulated (in terms of systemic guardrails) decentralised form of capitalism in most sectors (not ones regarding human rights such as healthcare). I also am a massive proponent of unions, but again, prefer a decentralised model there. I am a massive booster of entrepreneurship as well.