Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Firstly, it wasn't meant as a provocation at all. Hezbollah are classified as a terrorist group in the vast majority of countries worldwide, you may not agree with it's description as one which is up to you.

That's factually incorrect. Only the US and Israel have Hezbollah on their terrorist list. Recently, the European council listed the "military branch" of Hezbollah as terrorist under US pressure which is just a big bag of meaningless political bullshit because the US was putting a lot of pressure on them but they can't practically put Hezbollah down as a terrorist group. That is because first they have a huge fan base in Lebanon, they have parliament and government members, political allies including the biggest Christian party in Lebanon atm, and all ambassadors of the European union and even the US in Lebanon have to deal and organize with them.

As for whether or not I think they are terrorists, I've answered this before and my answer remains the same: http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/7709-the-pub-discuss-anything/?p=760690

A political movement that uses terror as a weapon to achieve its goals - Terror e.g rocket attacks, suicide bombers against civilian targets.

Can you argue that Hezbollah haven't used these tactics against Israel?

I'm fine with that definition, but it makes the US, Israel, the UK and every single major force in the world a terrorist state as well. How can terrorist states decide who is terrorist?

Can you argue that Israel haven't used much much more brutal force on Lebanese and Palestinian civilians?

You'll have to be clear on what you mean by the new middle east that was supposed to be created by America and possibly proxy Israel, I assume in 2006.

The middle-east lost in what looks like a sectarian war between Sunnis and Shias with a completely destroyed Syrian and Iraq. Don't think a 'rogue' ISIS was on the plans, though.

What war, there is no declared war between Israel and Palestine or Lebanon in international politics. You may turn around and call naive but it's true. There is no war between these countries. There is however agents or groups within the countries causing these events. This a critical difference between say a war between France and Germany where there are Governments to negotiate with. There should be no "balance of terror".

That's not naive, that's anti-realistic. You're looking for loopholes in small technicalities to try and deny reality. What do you call two invasions, an 18 year occupation and countless battles? But I can be technical too. According to the Lebanese constitution, Israel is an enemy and the official Lebanese governments since 1990 have all considered the Israeli attacks on Lebanon as a war and have addressed the UN as such. So, from Lebanese point of view, the 93, 96 , and 06 were all wars between Israel and Lebanon.

And no, the agents and groups aren't causing the events simply because the effect can't come before the cause. What is causing the conflicts is the creation of a military state out of thin air to kick millions of people out of their houses to be replaced with people brought in from all around the world and that state happens to have constant ambitions to expand its borders at the expense of the neighboring countries.

As for a better way, Israel like the British Empire in India/Pakistan/Bangledesh is a democracy, could you not try Civil disobedience?

Civil disobedience? You really have no idea what Palestinians go through, do you? People in Gaza are living in an open air dense packed prison forced to be impoverished by the Israeli siege that is "putting Palestinians on a diet" according to an Israeli officer while getting bombed by the newest weaponry in the world every other year "like shooting fish in a barrel." In the West Bank, the people have their homes demolished and land stolen on a daily basis while having to face daily racism like Jew-only schools, Jew-only buses, Jew-only football clubs and even some Jew-only roads! Even the Palestinians who have an Israeli nationality are subject to hate crimes on a daily basis just like the West Bankers. Settlers and police kill Palestinians, run them over, burn down their mosques, break into their homes on a daily basis while 92% of hate crimes against Palestinians never even make it to Israeli courts according an Israeli NGO. You can't fight that kind of apartheid with civil disobedience.

At least we somewhat agree on something but still Rocket Launching is not some kind of high precision targeting system that you believe it to be.

The majority are these -> http://en.wikipedia....i/Qassam_rocket No one in their right mind believes these are high precision rockets. Since 2001, there has been 25207 rockets fired into Israel. Think about that for a second, do you believe these are all aimed at military targets?

I never said that they were highly accurate nor that they only target military targets. I was merely pointing out the advancement of rockets that Hamas have. What I said was that they are an effective and low-casualty means of resistance.

I am always interested in Muslim's believe about the Dome of the Rock and Al-Asqa mosque within the context of the night journey but it seems from you answers, you are not a Muslim (if you are sorry ) On the Al-Asqa mosque, yeah some Israeli's do want to open up the mount for themselves which has been denied since a short time in 618-20 c when the Persians controlled Jerusalem.

I won't debate it from a religious point of view because those are not my beliefs, but from a legal point of view, the Jews can't pray at the mount of rock because Israel has treaties and international agreements that says so most notably the peace treaty with Jordan. Politically, the timing for bringing up the issues now is no coincidence when the Israeli government seems to be inflicting collective punishment on the Palestinians for its own failure to achieve any of its goals in the last war Gazza.

Of course, I'll try to. What I am arguing is an elaboration on your point that you believed that the suicide bombers were doing it in a hope that it would bring their children or relatives a better life. While I was arguing the highier rationalization was the Shahid martyrdom philosophy that drove them too in a way that none of the other world religions can do. The other two Abrahamic Faiths have no such comparable (maybe Samson in the Philistine temple perhaps) to the "great reward" 4.74, the "trade" of your life in sacrifice to escape hell and enter the Garden (of eden) in 61:10-12 and the stories of Houri's in heaven for Martyrs etc which we can go into more detail if you want. It is not man made rewards that drive some of these people but god given rewards.

What are you assuming that the motivation of such act can only be religious? Can't atheists willingly die to protect their country and loved ones?

So do you believe that the conflict could/or would have been solved by a two state system? Because I wish I could see it happen but I doubt it

The two state solution is just a hoax to distract from any real attempts at peace and even if it is somehow implemented (which won't happen), there can never be peace between the two states.

[DCS1984 28]

That's factually incorrect. Only the US and Israel have Hezbollah on their terrorist list. Recently, the European council listed the "military branch" of Hezbollah as terrorist under US pressure which is just a big bag of meaningless political bullshit because the US was putting a lot of pressure on them but they can't practically put Hezbollah down as a terrorist group. That is because first they have a huge fan base in Lebanon, they have parliament and government members, political allies including the biggest Christian party in Lebanon atm, and all ambassadors of the European union and even the US in Lebanon have to deal and organize with them.

Bahrian, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, UAE, Canada, France, Israel, Netherlands and US for their entire organization.

The European Union, all 28 countries have the military wing as a terrorist organization. What part of Hezbollah does the terror? Think about it, the only reason the whole organization isn't on the terrorist list is they can actually negotiate with someone when problems occur without being hit with the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" accusation.

I'm fine with that definition, but it makes the US, Israel, the UK and every single major force in the world a terrorist state as well. How can terrorist states decide who is terrorist? Can you argue that Israel haven't used much much more brutal force on Lebanese and Palestinian civilians?

You know it doesn't work like that internationally and you are taking a terrorist or a party with military capabilities and put them on the same level as a state. Israel, the UK and the US are all signatures to the Geneva convention. Hammas, Hezbollah are not. Those countries are responsible for the actions they take and can be made accountable through due process. While there is no process for Hamas at all, who can put rockets in schools and hospitals etc while the Israeli's can't, they have to follow the rules of warfare.

The middle-east lost in what looks like a sectarian war between Sunnis and Shias with a completely destroyed Syrian and Iraq. Don't think a 'rogue' ISIS was on the plans, though.

I doubt a 'rogue' ISIS was in anyone's plans but you'll still have to prove that this was the purpose of the American government and not just conjecture.....

That's not naive, that's anti-realistic. You're looking for loopholes in small technicalities to try and deny reality. What do you call two invasions, an 18 year occupation and countless battles? But I can be technical too. According to the Lebanese constitution, Israel is an enemy and the official Lebanese governments since 1990 have all considered the Israeli attacks on Lebanon as a war and have addressed the UN as such. So, from Lebanese point of view, the 93, 96 , and 06 were all wars between Israel and Lebanon. And no, the agents and groups aren't causing the events simply because the effect can't come before the cause. What is causing the conflicts is the creation of a military state out of thin air to kick millions of people out of their houses to be replaced with people brought in from all around the world and that state happens to have constant ambitions to expand its borders at the expense of the neighboring countries.

That isn't true in 1993, 1996 or 2006 there was no state of war between Lebanon and Israel at all. Each time was it Israeli's firing into Lebanon to kick the conflict off? Was it a strike by the Lebanese airforce/army/navy on Israeli targets that started it? No it was attacks by a group that started the conflict not states. Also the creation of a military state? Why do you think Israel is a "military" as you call it? What happened in 1948, who refused to the Israeli's?

Civil disobedience? You really have no idea what Palestinians go through, do you? People in Gaza are living in an open air dense packed prison forced to be impoverished by the Israeli siege that is "putting Palestinians on a diet" according to an Israeli officer while getting bombed by the newest weaponry in the world every other year "like shooting fish in a barrel." In the West Bank, the people have their homes demolished and land stolen on a daily basis while having to face daily racism like Jew-only schools, Jew-only buses, Jew-only football clubs and even some Jew-only roads! Even the Palestinians who have an Israeli nationality are subject to hate crimes on a daily basis just like the West Bankers. Settlers and police kill Palestinians, run them over, burn down their mosques, break into their homes on a daily basis while 92% of hate crimes against Palestinians never even make it to Israeli courts according an Israeli NGO. You can't fight that kind of apartheid with civil disobedience.

It's terrible what's happening in the Gaza Strip no-one can deny this. The quote you have used from Dov Weissglass who isn't an Israeli officer but a business man with close links to the old Ariel Sharon government.

"The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger." It is in reference to a carrot and stick approach to stop the attacks on Israel not a planned genocide. However he has always denied saying this.

There are Muslim/Christian/Jewish only faith schools here in the UK too. There is Athletic Bilbao that only allows Basques to play for them. The Jew only roads, I can believe that being in Palestine with the checkpoints. I'm surprised you have mentioned the giant wall they have built too, which is a disgrace.

Sadly it does seem that the previous attempts at Civil disobedience are quickly nipped in the bud so to say by Israeli capturing of their leaders. However this happened to the Congress Party too and they managed to keep the protests going non-violently. Imagine how the world would react to a complete strike by Palestinians rather than isolated attacks.

I never said that they were highly accurate nor that they only target military targets. I was merely pointing out the advancement of rockets that Hamas have. What I said was that they are an effective and low-casualty means of resistance.

It's not Hamas that should be firing these rockets, they are the government of Palestine now and should be working through diplomatic channels to attempt for however long it takes to resolve this with the Israelis. Again, the rockets kill innocent people and as you say are not highly accurate or military targets, my argument is these people firing the rockets have no right to aim inaccurate rockets from highly populated civilan areas into highly populated civilian areas. It's a crime Choulo and these people are committing murder not warfare.

I won't debate it from a religious point of view because those are not my beliefs, but from a legal point of view, the Jews can't pray at the mount of rock because Israel has treaties and international agreements that says so most notably the peace treaty with Jordan. Politically, the timing for bringing up the issues now is no coincidence when the Israeli government seems to be inflicting collective punishment on the Palestinians for its own failure to achieve any of its goals in the last war Gazza

True closing the Temple mount is in violation of the 1994 treaty as Jordan is the holder of the Muslim holy places in Jerusalem also Jew's can't pray at the Temple mount until the 3rd Temple is built. That obviously would require the demolition of the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Asqa Mosque which well would probably cause World War 3

What are you assuming that the motivation of such act can only be religious? Can't atheists willingly die to protect their country and loved ones?

Choulo I'm talking about the higher reasoning behind many (not all) of the suicide bombings not the secular, earthly ones. How do you protect your loved ones by blowing up a cafe? All you do is commit murder.

The two state solution is just a hoax to distract from any real attempts at peace and even if it is somehow implemented (which won't happen), there can never be peace between the two states.

Maybe.... one day. You have to hope/pray.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Bahrian, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, UAE, Canada, France, Israel, Netherlands and US for their entire organization.

The European Union, all 28 countries have the military wing as a terrorist organization. What part of Hezbollah does the terror? Think about it, the only reason the whole organization isn't on the terrorist list is they can actually negotiate with someone when problems occur without being hit with the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" accusation.

Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, UAE and Canada all have the same list of terrorists as the USA. And that's not "a lot of countries" at all. All of them, including the listing of the "military branch" (which does not exist, because Hezbollah is Hezbollah, in leaders and management in all domains) are political bullshit to put pressure on Iran. All of these countries still coordinate with Hezbollah publicly regarding all issues on Lebanon.

You know it doesn't work like that internationally and you are taking a terrorist or a party with military capabilities and put them on the same level as a state. Israel, the UK and the US are all signatures to the Geneva convention. Hammas, Hezbollah are not. Those countries are responsible for the actions they take and can be made accountable through due process. While there is no process for Hamas at all, who can put rockets in schools and hospitals etc while the Israeli's can't, they have to follow the rules of warfare.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, Israel, the UK and US are always held responsible for their terrorist activities!

Seriously, let's not insult anyone's intelligence with statements like that. The label "terrorist" is owned by the father of real terrorism that are the so called superpowers of the world and they slap it on anyone that disagrees with them to scare the public when in fact it has lost all meaning because of the glaringly obvious double standards.

I doubt a 'rogue' ISIS was in anyone's plans but you'll still have to prove that this was the purpose of the American government and not just conjecture.....

Hey look, John McCain with the 'Khaleefa' of ISIS and some of the highest ranking Al Qaeda related group leaders in Syrian:

That isn't true in 1993, 1996 or 2006 there was no state of war between Lebanon and Israel at all. Each time was it Israeli's firing into Lebanon to kick the conflict off? Was it a strike by the Lebanese airforce/army/navy on Israeli targets that started it? No it was attacks by a group that started the conflict not states. Also the creation of a military state? Why do you think Israel is a "military" as you call it? What happened in 1948, who refused to the Israeli's?

The Lebanese constitution and every single Lebanese government in the past 25 years considers Israel an enemy of Lebanon and any military action by it on Lebanese soil an act of war. On our side, they are officially wars. Don't try to dress them up.

And yes, Israel is a military state because the state was created by the military and not the other way around. It was created by the force of the British army and maintained by extremist Jewish militias that were later transformed into the Israeli army. The citizens of the state were brought in from all over the world and the original citizens of the land kicked out by this military force.

It's terrible what's happening in the Gaza Strip no-one can deny this. The quote you have used from Dov Weissglass who isn't an Israeli officer but a business man with close links to the old Ariel Sharon government. "The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger." It is in reference to a carrot and stick approach to stop the attacks on Israel not a planned genocide. However he has always denied saying this.

It's not the quote itself but the mentality that it conveys that is very wide spread among all Israelis that Palestinians are their inferiors and they can basically do anything to them with no implications.

There are Muslim/Christian/Jewish only faith schools here in the UK too. There is Athletic Bilbao that only allows Basques to play for them. The Jew only roads, I can believe that being in Palestine with the checkpoints. I'm surprised you have mentioned the giant wall they have built too, which is a disgrace.

You make it sound so natural when in fact it is the same kind of racism that was in the US 50 years ago and the same kind of apartheid that was in South Africa.

On a related note, was Mandela a terrorist? He was listed as one by "a lot of countries around the world" and stayed on the US list until a few years before his death.

Sadly it does seem that the previous attempts at Civil disobedience are quickly nipped in the bud so to say by Israeli capturing of their leaders. However this happened to the Congress Party too and they managed to keep the protests going non-violently. Imagine how the world would react to a complete strike by Palestinians rather than isolated attacks.

Strike of what exactly? How can the Gazans strike? The non-violent protests by Palestinians in the West Bank and Al Quds have always been met with live fire from the Israeli police. "If you lived in Gaza you would fire rockets on Israel too."

It's not Hamas that should be firing these rockets, they are the government of Palestine now and should be working through diplomatic channels to attempt for however long it takes to resolve this with the Israelis. Again, the rockets kill innocent people and as you say are not highly accurate or military targets, my argument is these people firing the rockets have no right to aim inaccurate rockets from highly populated civilan areas into highly populated civilian areas. It's a crime Choulo and these people are committing murder not warfare.

Crime, not warfare? They should get into their F16s and drop tons of explosives civilians instead? These people are murdered and dehumanized everyday and you're saying that their only means of genuine resistance is a crime?! I wonder what you think of Israel's military activities in Gaza, then?

Choulo I'm talking about the higher reasoning behind many (not all) of the suicide bombings not the secular, earthly ones. How do you protect your loved ones by blowing up a cafe? All you do is commit murder.

On Sept. 24, 1982, Khalid Alwan walked into the Wimpy Cafe in Beirut. He didn't blow it up, but he shot 4 Israeli soldiers. That operation sparked the resistance against the Israeli invasion of Beirut and the operations and attacks continued until a few months later the Israeli army was shouting through megaphones in Arabic: "Citizens of Beirut, stop your fire we are withdrawing."

Tell me he or the suicide bomber who took out the US marines barracks didn't help ensure that their kids and family live in a free city.

Maybe.... one day. You have to hope/pray.

I don't pray, and I may be a cynic, but false hope is foolish.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

This is unbelievable

Why is that surprising? Obviously no one reacted to the ISIS flag because it was VERY obvious that he was not serious and it was some sort of prank. As for the reaction to the Israeli flag, it is to be expected as well since support for Israel in the US is at an all time low and the awareness of the Palestinian struggle at an all time high.

Still, though, hold up a Palestinian flag and you'll most likely get a similar reaction.

[DCS1984 28]

Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, UAE and Canada all have the same list of terrorists as the USA. And that's not "a lot of countries" at all. All of them, including the listing of the "military branch" (which does not exist, because Hezbollah is Hezbollah, in leaders and management in all domains) are political bullshit to put pressure on Iran. All of these countries still coordinate with Hezbollah publicly regarding all issues on Lebanon.

No that isn't true Choulo, you know full well what the point I'm making and are trying to trying to move it away. When you have the USA, Canada and the European Union designating the group to be either a terrorist organization or having members with intention of carrying out warfare against Civilians then there is evidently a problem within the organization and it's principles.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah, Israel, the UK and US are always held responsible for their terrorist activities! Seriously, let's not insult anyone's intelligence with statements like that. The label "terrorist" is owned by the father of real terrorism that are the so called superpowers of the world and they slap it on anyone that disagrees with them to scare the public when in fact it has lost all meaning because of the glaringly obvious double standards.

You are insulting your own intelligence and are missing my points again so I'll repeat them. The State of Israel, the UK and the US are all responsible for their acts in war. Hamas and Hezbollah are responsible to who exactly? When they put rockets in schools/hospitals and fire into civilian area who are they responsible to?

Hey look, John McCain with the 'Khaleefa' of ISIS and some of the highest ranking Al Qaeda related group leaders in Syrian:

Which one of these is Abu Bakr Al-Baghadi? It wasn't ISIS it was Northern Storm Brigade (who have had an off and on relationship with ISIS and their previous AQI), not someone I'd want to want to debate with but you are provide false information to the people here.

The Lebanese constitution and every single Lebanese government in the past 25 years considers Israel an enemy of Lebanon and any military action by it on Lebanese soil an act of war. On our side, they are officially wars. Don't try to dress them up. And yes, Israel is a military state because the state was created by the military and not the other way around. It was created by the force of the British army and maintained by extremist Jewish militias that were later transformed into the Israeli army. The citizens of the state were brought in from all over the world and the original citizens of the land kicked out by this military force.

Again not true, they were not officially wars between Lebanon and Israel. Go find the state of war between Israel and Lebanon and post it here. They are modern conflicts that you should easily be able to find these documents. Do you remember any battles between the Lebanese Army and the Israeli's?

Again you know full well that the 1948 partition and subsequent war was not a case of a British trained extremist Jewish militias and subsequently re-enforced by new waves of Jewish citizens with the express purpose of displacing the Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

Strike of what exactly? How can the Gazans strike? The non-violent protests by Palestinians in the West Bank and Al Quds have always been met with live fire from the Israeli police. "If you lived in Gaza you would fire rockets on Israel too."

Always? You speak so often in definates. It isn't always. If the Israeli's fired live ammunition every time then there would have been massacres liked at Amritsar in India. Live ammunition should never be used ever against demonstrators. Ever.

Crime, not warfare? They should get into their F16s and drop tons of explosives civilians instead? These people are murdered and dehumanized everyday and you're saying that their only means of genuine resistance is a crime?! I wonder what you think of Israel's military activities in Gaza, then?

Again, no mention of any diplomatic effort. No talk of both sides trying to work this through.

What do I think of Israel's military operations in Gaza? The state of Israel shouldn't be in Gaza. I understand why the Israeli's are still technically the occupying power and their concerns about the threat to their safety. Are the settlements illegal, without a doubt. I believe the Palestine State and the leaders of it have incited a lot of the troubles and caused roadblocks in the path to a solution (the Israeli's are also guilty of this)

On Sept. 24, 1982, Khalid Alwan walked into the Wimpy Cafe in Beirut. He didn't blow it up, but he shot 4 Israeli soldiers. That operation sparked the resistance against the Israeli invasion of Beirut and the operations and attacks continued until a few months later the Israeli army was shouting through megaphones in Arabic: "Citizens of Beirut, stop your fire we are withdrawing." Tell me he or the suicide bomber who took out the US marines barracks didn't help ensure that their kids and family live in a free city.

What I have read about the Israeli invasion in 1982 so far does not put the Israeli's in a good light at all. Though Lebanon was a mess at this time going though it's terrible civil war which I have been meaning to read more about. If you know any good impartial books then please list them. The Israeli's didn't leave until the following August after that bombing. You know more than me about Lebanon but can you really say that what happened 1982 made Beirut and Lebanon a safe place?

[kobematabryant 400]

Are most people on here Pro Putin/Russian or Pro American/NATO?

[dUMB 189]

Are most people on here Pro Putin/Russian or Pro American/NATO?

My country is in NATO, but I dont like either of them. Both sides are only doing things which would benefit their own interests.

[iseah100 5,612]

Ya me canse. Mexican government killing their citizens, something needs to be done. I plan on going to Chicago on Dec.2nd to participate in a march for the 43 victims of Ayotzinapa.

#TodosSomosAyotzinapa.

http://mashable.com/2014/11/20/ayotzinapa-timeline-mexico-disappearance/

[kobematabryant 400]

My country is in NATO, but I dont like either of them. Both sides are only doing things which would benefit their own interests.

Do Croatia have a good relationship with Russia ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No that isn't true Choulo, you know full well what the point I'm making and are trying to trying to move it away. When you have the USA, Canada and the European Union designating the group to be either a terrorist organization or having members with intention of carrying out warfare against Civilians then there is evidently a problem within the organization and it's principles.

No, I honestly don't know what your point is. The two biggest terror states in the world, Israel and the US, that have killed the most civilians during warfare post WW2, and countries with some of the worst human rights records like Bahrain and Qatar (don't even get me started on Qatar's relation to terrorism in the region); these countries having Hezbollah on their list of terrorism isn't evidence that there's "a problem within the organization and it's principles" as is evident by the fact that all the countries and their ambassadors in Lebanon treat Hezbollah the exact same as the rest of the political parties and cooperate with them about everything Lebanon related.

You are insulting your own intelligence and are missing my points again so I'll repeat them. The State of Israel, the UK and the US are all responsible for their acts in war. Hamas and Hezbollah are responsible to who exactly? When they put rockets in schools/hospitals and fire into civilian area who are they responsible to?

That's bullshit and you know it. No one has ever held Israel and the US for their actions simply because they control the 'judge' that is the UN. Both have gotten away with some of the worst acts of terrorism without any punishment.

Want specifics? Tell me, was the US held responsible for it's acts of terrorism against Cuban civilians during the cold war including poisoning or drinking water and livestock and bomb attacks on factories and facilities that killed hundreds of civilians? For the rest of their terrorist activities in South America during the cold war? In Africa? How about for the Vietnamese civilians killed by the american warfare? Did anyone punish the US for the USS New Jersey shelling civilian areas in Lebanon and killing over 80 civilians in a single day in 1984? Do you really want me to get into the acts of terrorism committed by Israel? Were they punished for leveling entire civilian areas in the southern suburbs of Beirut where there are no weapons and no fighters? Were they held accountable for targeting two red cross vehicles carrying over 20 women and children in 2006 killing them all? Were they held responsible for targeting a UN facility in 96 where civilians had taken shelter in Qana killing over 60 of the? When were they ever punished for their war crimes in Palestine? The Shuja'iyya massacre? The targeting of a UN school that the UN "have communicated the location of over 70 times to the Isreali army"? The shelling of a children's playground on the day of the Eid?! The murdering of 4 kids playing football on an empty beach? And that's just this very year! How about the various car bomb attacks in Lebanon that were done by the Mosad and that killed tens of civilians? The Sabra and Shatila massacre?! And that's just off the top of my head and I could go on and on and on and on.

Just thinking about it makes my fucking blood boil, so please cut the crap about the meaningless "international laws" and political prestige that you and I know fully are only fabricated so that the average western citizen who knows nothing about the realities of war and the foreign policies of his country can go sleep at night and go to his work the next day without worrying about anything except what they want him to worry about.

Which one of these is Abu Bakr Al-Baghadi? It wasn't ISIS it was Northern Storm Brigade (who have had an off and on relationship with ISIS and their previous AQI), not someone I'd want to want to debate with but you are provide false information to the people here.

How can you call it false information if you're not sure? Al Baghdadi is the one in the pic with the red circle around his head:

Not the first time he with important american company either as he was US prison in Iraq but was then released for no reason in 2008 (IIRC). Also in that meeting was Mohammed Noor (blue shirt):

One of the highest ranking terrorist on US's own terrorist list and on McCain's right is Khalid Al Hamad, a high ranking ISIS leader now and the star of the infamous heart-eating viral video that you no doubt have seen or heard of. The smiling guy on the left is Salim Idris who has since been kicked out of the FSA for being "too moderate". But you're right, at the time he was with the Northern Storm Brigade that were at the time fighting along side Nosra/ISIS (before their "break up" and before the widening of the gap between the factions of the Syrian rebels) towards the Meing Airport in the north.

But let us assume that McCain did not know who those people were and assumed that they were all Northern Storm Brigade. At the time, the Northern Storm Brigade had over 20 Lebanese civilian pilgrims hostage with them and that was way before the involvement of Hezbollah in Syria. So, was McCain and the US held responsible for supporting such terrorist groups?!

Again not true, they were not officially wars between Lebanon and Israel. Go find the state of war between Israel and Lebanon and post it here. They are modern conflicts that you should easily be able to find these documents. Do you remember any battles between the Lebanese Army and the Israeli's?

See, here I know exactly what your point is. You wish to paint a picture that the "terrorist" Hezbollah is the only ones that have issues with Israel in Lebanon. You want to make the direct effect of the Israeli invasions and assaults on Lebanon, that is the Lebanese resistance, look like the cause of the assaults by talking circles around meaningless technicalities.

The reason why the Lebanese army has had no battles with the Israeli army apart from a few small clashes and the occasional air raid by the Israeli fighters on Lebanese army facilities during wars is because our army is not allowed to have any serious weapons. We have no aircrafts, most of our tanks are the ones left by French army in the 1940s and even the helicopters were not allowed to have machine guns on them until this year. But still, the Lebanese army considers the Israeli army as the enemy and treats it as such and in the 2000 liberation and the 93, 96 and 06 wars every single Lebanese party considered it a war on Lebanon and you can go check what is said by every single party leader during those times. Lebanon is a special case in various aspects but the Israeli assaults have been on all of Lebanon.

Always? You speak so often in definates. It isn't always. If the Israeli's fired live ammunition every time then there would have been massacres liked at Amritsar in India. Live ammunition should never be used ever against demonstrators. Ever.

Of course that was an exaggeration. You want accurate numbers? In the past 20 days alone, the Israeli police have detained over 380 and Palestinians participating in protests, issued tens of demolition orders for the houses of Palestinians who are involved in protests and killed several including a 10 year old boy a couple of days ago. Tear gas, rubber bullets and shock bombs are a daily thing as the police protect the settlers provoking and throwing stones on the Palestinians, meanwhile last month the punishment for Palestinians throwing rocks at Israeli police or settlers was increased to up to 20 years in prison. Here is a roundup of all the Isreali settlers and police violations against Palestinians in October alone: http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/ten-palestinians-killed-israelis-october-plo-report?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Again, no mention of any diplomatic effort. No talk of both sides trying to work this through.

How can you put the burden of the diplomatic effort on the people who have absolutely nothing left except the instinct of survival? The Israelis hold almost ALL the cards, The Palestinians have nothing, they have absolutely nothing they can compromise on. They having nothing else to lose.

What do I think of Israel's military operations in Gaza? The state of Israel shouldn't be in Gaza. I understand why the Israeli's are still technically the occupying power and their concerns about the threat to their safety. Are the settlements illegal, without a doubt. I believe the Palestine State and the leaders of it have incited a lot of the troubles and caused roadblocks in the path to a solution (the Israeli's are also guilty of this)

For someone who has made several posts lecturing on the humanitarian and ethical issues of the resistance rockets, you sure are careful not to mention anything about the Israeli war crimes against Palestinian civilians in Gaza which are a thousand times worse! It's really both sad and hilarious at the same time. One side has the most advanced warplanes, countless tanks, huge battleships, one of the best trained army in the world and unlimited ammo and funds from the US. The other has rockets that are without war heads and most locally assembled and cheap light and medium weapons. No planes, no ships, no tanks, no army. One side killed 2 civilians in the last war, the other 2000 civilians. And people want to call it war and even claim that the Israelis have the moral high ground? It is murder, there is no other way to describe it.

What I have read about the Israeli invasion in 1982 so far does not put the Israeli's in a good light at all. Though Lebanon was a mess at this time going though it's terrible civil war which I have been meaning to read more about. If you know any good impartial books then please list them. The Israeli's didn't leave until the following August after that bombing.

You won't find impartial books on that whole era. The closest you'll come is this documentary on the Lebanese civil war. It's VERY long though and I don't know how interested you are in the subject. This is part one of 15 with a total of about 12 hours, you'll find the rest on youtube as well:

You know more than me about Lebanon but can you really say that what happened 1982 made Beirut and Lebanon a safe place?

They helped leave their loved ones a free city where they can live their lives in dignity. There is no denying that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

^^

Here is the first video of the complete playlist of that documentary. The one I posted above only goes up to part 4. They're all Eng. subtitled of course:

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Very annoying to see another muslim terrorist group kill 28 people in Kenya for not practicing/praying Islam. Life has no value to these people, they think if they die fighting they'll get 100 virgins. Bunch of stupid cunts

[dUMB 189]

Do Croatia have a good relationship with Russia ?

Not really. Only Serbia (from former Yugoslavia) has good relationship with Russia.

[Spike 12,049]

I like it when people try to justify killing. I also enjoy when people simplify the world by blaming one or very few incidents when it's actually thousands of years of dominoes falling over.

And then people say that Islam is the cause for violence in the world. Haha, Christianity.

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

Proving the Illuminati is Real!

video about how the (eye is not e) illuminati is from ISRAEL and how it is connected to the world around us.

Published on Nov 21, 2014

VIDEO LENGTH - 6:05

YOUTUBER : Ryan Higa (nigahiga)