Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

RIP the workers at Charlie Hebdo in Paris.

We must defend the right of freedom of speech

Was having an interesting debate yesterday (with someone from London, coincidentally) about whether or not we should be sharing the Charlie Hebdo cartoons as a sign of support. On one hand, the cartoons are disgustingly racist (and quite frankly unfunny) and spreading them would means also spreading a negative sentiment towards not juts Muslims, but everyone that looks like them. On the other hand, my argument was that, in such situations, republishing the cartoons does not mean endorsing the opinions but a defense of the freedom of speech. Even if the opinions are aimed against me and no matter how extreme they are, I would fight for the right to express them in all democratic forms. Curios what you make of this?

The above said, it would be nice if we all stood for the freedom of speech for all different opinions and treated everyone equally. How about a little outrage for this as well:

(this was this morning, a few more have been added during the day)

Or how about support and protection for all kinds of free speech? The comics of Chrlie Hebdo about Islam are too extreme for me to even post on here and I defend their right to publish them. But the same magazine in 2009 had a cartoonist fired and tried for "anti-antisemitism" for commenting on Sarkozy's son marrying a VERY rich Jewish girl that he was "converting to Judaism for financial reasons."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4351672/French-cartoonist-Sine-on-trial-on-charges-of-anti-Semitism-over-Sarkozy-jibe.html

Can't sensor what you want and call for freedom on speech when it conveniences you.

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

Was having an interesting debate yesterday (with someone from London, coincidentally) about whether or not we should be sharing the Charlie Hebdo cartoons as a sign of support. On one hand, the cartoons are disgustingly racist (and quite frankly unfunny) and spreading them would means also spreading a negative sentiment towards not juts Muslims, but everyone that looks like them. On the other hand, my argument was that, in such situations, republishing the cartoons does not mean endorsing the opinions but a defense of the freedom of speech. Even if the opinions are aimed against me and no matter how extreme they are, I would fight for the right to express them in all democratic forms. Curios what you make of this?

The above said, it would be nice if we all stood for the freedom of speech for all different opinions and treated everyone equally. How about a little outrage for this as well:

(this was this morning, a few more have been added during the day)

Or how about support and protection for all kinds of free speech? The comics of Chrlie Hebdo about Islam are too extreme for me to even post on here and I defend their right to publish them. But the same magazine in 2009 had a cartoonist fired and tried for "anti-antisemitism" for commenting on Sarkozy's son marrying a VERY rich Jewish girl that he was "converting to Judaism for financial reasons."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4351672/French-cartoonist-Sine-on-trial-on-charges-of-anti-Semitism-over-Sarkozy-jibe.html

Can't sensor what you want and call for freedom on speech when it conveniences you.

I would like to see the cartoons, as I heard they werent that offensive. The only one I saw was one of Mohammed saying "400 lashes if you dont laugh". Hardly that offensive.

Whatever they were, theres no way they justify mass slaughter, and as one senior Imam said today "those who killed the workers at Charlie Hebdon were not killing in the name of god, they were killing in the name of the devil."

Also begs the question WHO exactly, is offended ? It cant be Mohammed, he is too big and grand a figure. If its his followers, er, dont look at the pictures.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I would like to see the cartoons, as I heard they werent that offensive. The only one I saw was one of Mohammed saying "400 lashes if you dont laugh". Hardly that offensive.

Whatever they were, theres no way they justify mass slaughter, and as one senior Imam said today "those who killed the workers at Charlie Hebdon were not killing in the name of god, they were killing in the name of the devil."

Also begs the question WHO exactly, is offended ? It cant be Mohammed, he is too big and grand a figure. If its his followers, er, dont look at the pictures.

A few translated to English:

Don't think it's wise to keep these here, so may be if it's best if you edit my post and delete them after you see them.

Of course no cartoon, no matter how extreme or racist, could justify obstructing humans' right of free speech. I'm asking, would you share them as a sign of defense of free speech even if you do not wish to endorse the racist opinion behind them?

[cosmicway 1,333]

Much as I 'd like to see all America's B52s taking off now and go to Syria, I 'd never publish cartoons that are offensive to the world's religions.
I know it's not the time to say it, but this was always my opinion. From way back with that book "satanic verses" and the riots in London.
It is however true that the jihaddists call all cartoons "offensive to religion", even when they are not.

There is so much ethnic abuse around, from all and sundry against all and sundry. Should we create terror groups and kill each other until there is no one left ?

[Beepu 1,714]

These events are just so tragic, just too much. How easy is it to take someone else's life?

If I kill anyone who offends me and my faith then I'd probably be an international criminal. But if you hate someone because of your faith you are doing it wrong!

Saying that, the cartoons are pretty bad. Still doesn't warrant a killing, but free speech is surely not saying whatever the heck you want, however you want to say it? Especially since the extremists gets offended by everything.

The sad thing about events like these is that people generalize Muslims with extremists, and Muslims with every religion on this planet.

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

A few translated to English:

Don't think it's wise to keep these here, so may be if it's best if you edit my post and delete them after you see them.

Of course no cartoon, no matter how extreme or racist, could justify obstructing humans' right of free speech. I'm asking, would you share them as a sign of defense of free speech even if you do not wish to endorse the racist opinion behind them?

For all the publications and newspaper offices so called standing in solidarity with Hebdo, I dont think many would republish out of fear. So, in one respect the murderers have won.

They do seem designed to offend, as were the anti Catholic, anti Jewish, anti Pope ones. The ones directed at the French govt were more offensive imo.

The climate of being offended in society for whatever reason, is slowly overtaking the hard won right to free speech imo.

[Fernando 6,585]

A few translated to English:

Don't think it's wise to keep these here, so may be if it's best if you edit my post and delete them after you see them.

Of course no cartoon, no matter how extreme or racist, could justify obstructing humans' right of free speech. I'm asking, would you share them as a sign of defense of free speech even if you do not wish to endorse the racist opinion behind them?

It is disgusting, and blasphemy to say the least.

But the problem with people who believe in god, (i.e I believe in the god of the bible) think that because it's blasphemy against god they must do something.

Foolish human, as if the god you believe in is not all powerful to defend himself?

Kinda reminds me of the movie Troy when Achilles chops the head of Zeus and the Spartan was surprised that Zeus did nothing.

In such case you can conclude that either he is no true god to defend his honor or hes showing mercy to the blasphemer.

Which case you should too accept it and not take matter into your own hands.

So that's my thought on anyone who believes in god and takes matter into their own hands like these minority of Muslim groups do.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

The Religion of Peace strikes again!

[Kieran. 6,317]

The Religion of Peace strikes again!

Don't start again with your islamophobic bullshit.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Don't start again with your islamophobic bullshit.

Notice how no Catholics went about killing anybody when the same magazine printed offensive anti-Catholic cartoons. Wonder why it's only Muslims that go around killing people who "insult" the "prophet" ?

To have a Phobia means to have an irrational fear of something. Fearing and detesting an Ideology that stands for tyranny, oppression of women, Jihad through warfare, underage "marriage", oppression of religious minorities, terror attacks, killing of gays, killing of apostates etc etc, is indeed perfectly rational. Any sane, freedom loving person will be an "Islamophobe". Even people were castigated as Naziphopbes before the Nazi's started a World War and committed mass genocide of millions. You're more concerned with "Islamophobia" than Freedom of Speech and the death of innocent people. Typical.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

Looks like the hostage situations in france are unfolding now.

[lucio 5,418]

Notice how no Catholics went about killing anybody when the same magazine printed offensive anti-Catholic cartoons. Wonder why it's only Muslims that go around killing people who "insult" the "prophet" ?

To have a Phobia means to have an irrational fear of something. Fearing and detesting an Ideology that stands for tyranny, oppression of women, Jihad through warfare, underage "marriage", oppression of religious minorities, terror attacks, killing of gays, killing of apostates etc etc, is indeed perfectly rational. Any sane, freedom loving person will be an "Islamophobe". Even people were castigated as Naziphopbes before the Nazi's started a World War and committed mass genocide of millions. You're more concerned with "Islamophobia" than Freedom of Speech and the death of innocent people. Typical.

im a catholic. and i dont care less about some cartoons.

i dont think we should condemn muslims. most are normal people. and the biggest sufferers under "islamic tyranny" are probably good muslim folk.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

im a catholic. and i dont care less about some cartoons.

i dont think we should condemn muslims. most are normal people. and the biggest sufferers under "islamic tyranny" are probably good muslim folk.

Something I never actually did i.e condemn Muslims. Maybe you don't understand the difference between a religion (an ideology) and the practicioners of the ideology. It's not that complex actually.

[lucio 5,418]

Something I never actually did i.e condemn Muslims. Maybe you don't understand the difference between a religion (an ideology) and the practicioners of the ideology. It's not that complex actually.

i didnt say you did. it was just my point

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

i didnt say you did. it was just my point

So why respond directly to my comment then? I could also care-less if you're Catholic or not. That's a moot point.

[lucio 5,418]

So why respond directly to my comment then? I could also care-less if you're Catholic or not. That's a moot point.

i wanted to say. that muslims have the most to fear from islam. that was my take on islamphobia

[Fernando 6,585]

im a catholic. and i dont care less about some cartoons.

i dont think we should condemn muslims. most are normal people. and the biggest sufferers under "islamic tyranny" are probably good muslim folk.

Agreed.

What's happening now in the Muslim world is something that has happen to major religions that held a lot of power and influence over it's people.

Catholicisms ages ago, Judaism back in prophets and Christ age and such.

You get sects that distort the laws and teaching and become dogmatic about it.

This is why I love what God says, "my people perish for lack of knowledge"

And you know what knowledge the world is deliberate ignorant of?

This:

How can you call yourself a Christian and say you do the will of god if you distort the major commandments?

In loving god with all your heart, soul and mind. And loving your neighbor as yourself.

You show lack of patients because you have no love

You show no kindness because you have no love

You envy your neighbor because you have no love

You dishonor others because you have no love

You keep records of wrong because you have no love

And lastly you expect god to show you mercy and forgive of your sins but you don't show mercy and forgive others.

Anyone who does not practice this does not have god.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

It is disgusting, and blasphemy to say the least.

But the problem with people who believe in god, (i.e I believe in the god of the bible) think that because it's blasphemy against god they must do something.

Foolish human, as if the god you believe in is not all powerful to defend himself?

Kinda reminds me of the movie Troy when Achilles chops the head of Zeus and the Spartan was surprised that Zeus did nothing.

In such case you can conclude that either he is no true god to defend his honor or hes showing mercy to the blasphemer.

Which case you should too accept it and not take matter into your own hands.

So that's my thought on anyone who believes in god and takes matter into their own hands like these minority of Muslim groups do.

Absolutely. I would never make such comics, but I would always defend anyone's right to express them. The only way to battle racism is through raising social awareness leading to social evolution.

The Religion of Peace strikes again!

Was wondering when the Islamophobe was going to pop in

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

i wanted to say. that muslims have the most to fear from islam. that was my take on islamphobia

I do agree that Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam. They're just too blind and scared to see it. And commands such as this from the "prophet" don't help either.

Bukhari (84:57) : In the words of Allah's Apostle, Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.

Catholicism underwent a reformation and counter-reformation. An enlightenment period as well and did away with the barbarity and evil of Inquisitions. Islam has always been and is still a violent, supremacist Ideology. It refuses to compete in the market-place of ideas. It's no surprise because Muhammad, the founder of the religion also assassinated those who mocked him (Asma Bint Marwan) . Muslims are commanded to love Muhammad more than they love their own parents, spouses and children. So why should we be surprised when some of his followers do likewise (i.e assassinate those who mock him) even 1000's of years later?

[lucio 5,418]

I do agree that Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam. They're just too blind and scared to see it. And commands such as this from the "prophet" don't help either.

Bukhari (84:57) : In the words of Allah's Apostle, Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.

Catholicism underwent a reformation and counter-reformation. An enlightenment period as well and did away with the barbarity and evil of Inquisitions. Islam has always been and is still a violent, supremacist Ideology. It refuses to compete in the market-place of ideas. It's no surprise because Muhammad, the founder of the religion also assassinated those who mocked him. Muslims are commanded to love Muhammad more than they love their own parents, spouses and children. So why should we be surprised when some of his followers do likewise even 1000's of years later?

i have read terrible things about mohammed. and he is associated with a wide number of crimes, historically. but cholou said before that member will be insulted. so i wont go into them