Torres - Defending the Indefensible?

[DDA 9,570]

This is true, and I don't dispute the crockness of Torres but Sam's point is right.

Even if we were to buy Higuain, Cavani, Pato etc, they'd all suffer from a poor lack of service. They would put away these easy chances that Tosser misses (we..hope) but they wouldn't get so many chances.

We have Lukaku, let's gamble on not buy a striker now and getting a few playmakers.

I agree even if we give Lukaku a chance, forget buying a striker we need fast passing, creative midfielders who can hold their own in the biggest of games! If we can see it then AVB must be able to see it right?

[BlueLion. 21,491]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8956377/Fernando-Torres-then-and-now-comparing-strikers-opening-25-games-with-Liverpool-and-Chelsea.html

What is interesting is that Torres' shots-to-goals ratio has barely changed. At Liverpool it was 12% and now it is 10%. That just means he is taking less and less shots because he has no support to create the chances whatsoever.

[nullabletype 987]

Firstly, good write up. I don't necessarily share the same views but it's a well put together piece. The only but I sort of object to is this...

Do not be fooled by his number of assists and his workrate for the team - Torres is a striker.

Fair enough he is a striker and scoring goals is his main purpose. But at the end of the day it's a team effort, and 11 assists (I think) is decent. It's hard then to say we shouldn't be fooled by his work rate and team play. If we take his assists out of the big picture to focus on his striking ability, then it's unfair to take in to account the amount of goals other players have scored in comparison, mainly because a number of their goals would never have been if it wasn't for his contribution.

I think it's fair to say most people do think Torres works hard and can see he's trying, in fact, hasn't he been awarded MotM on a few of his recent goalless outings? It's for these few reasons that I think Torres lack of striking success almost says more about the team surrounding him. I don't think there's too many strikers would be particularly potent in our current structure, which is why I feel the criticism of an out of sorts and let's be frank, incredibly unlucky Torres is for the most part harsh.

My main issue with Torres isn't even one that he directly has any effect on. I can't stand when our post match analysis, be it from pundits or people on forums, mostly surrounds how bad Torres was, or when he's not bad, his lack of goals. Even when at times the entire team has been bad. For just one recent example, as much as I love the guy, Sturridge was invisible on Saturday. So much so my brother momentarily thought he'd been subbed! But how much time was spent talking about him? Very little if any at all.

[Blue Armour 4,165]

http://www.telegraph...nd-Chelsea.html

What is interesting is that Torres' shots-to-goals ratio has barely changed. At Liverpool it was 12% and now it is 10%. That just means he is taking less and less shots because he has no support to create the chances whatsoever.

Was just reading that myself.

While what you mentioned is true, it could also be due to the fact that he doesn't get into good positions, or is unable to beat the defender with pace to take shots (like against Newcastle when he opted to assist Kalou).

Anyway, am just glad that his current performances are far from the anonymous ones he used to put in at the start of his career here. Always a chance he will score in the next game, even if it appears unlikely.

[Blue Armour 4,165]

Firstly, good write up. I don't necessarily share the same views but it's a well put together piece. The only but I sort of object to is this...

Fair enough he is a striker and scoring goals is his main purpose. But at the end of the day it's a team effort, and 11 assists (I think) is decent. It's hard then to say we shouldn't be fooled by his work rate and team play. If we take his assists out of the big picture to focus on his striking ability, then it's unfair to take in to account the amount of goals other players have scored in comparison, mainly because a number of their goals would never have been if it wasn't for his contribution.

I think it's fair to say most people do think Torres works hard and can see he's trying, in fact, hasn't he been awarded MotM on a few of his recent goalless outings? It's for these few reasons that I think Torres lack of striking success almost says more about the team surrounding him. I don't think there's too many strikers would be particularly potent in our current structure, which is why I feel the criticism of an out of sorts and let's be frank, incredibly unlucky Torres is for the most part harsh.

My main issue with Torres isn't even one that he directly has any effect on. I can't stand when our post match analysis, be it from pundits or people on forums, mostly surrounds how bad Torres was, or when he's not bad, his lack of goals. Even when at times the entire team has been bad. For just one recent example, as much as I love the guy, Sturridge was invisible on Saturday. So much so my brother momentarily thought he'd been subbed! But how much time was spent talking about him? Very little if any at all.

Probably because Sturridge hasn't failed to score from his last 15...?

In any case, most of the journos yesterday were commending Torres for a good performance, but they are flabbergasted, quite naturally, when it comes to why he still can't put the ball inside the net.

[manpe 10,855]

My main issue with Torres isn't even one that he directly has any effect on. I can't stand when our post match analysis, be it from pundits or people on forums, mostly surrounds how bad Torres was, or when he's not bad, his lack of goals. Even when at times the entire team has been bad. For just one recent example, as much as I love the guy, Sturridge was invisible on Saturday. So much so my brother momentarily thought he'd been subbed! But how much time was spent talking about him? Very little if any at all.

Torres and Sturridge situations aren't even in the same worlds.. one is a 50 million striker who has probably worse goal record than Bendtner over one year. The other is a young striker turned winger who just has started to shine and managed to score more than Torres could ever dream of. A couple of expected anonymous performances are forgiveable, the issues they have are completely different. Current frenzy over Torres is a consequence of being goal-shy for a year (a YEAR, we're not talking about weeks as is the case with Danny). I'm sure that Sturridge will go berzerk mode once again, you can't be outstanding all the time, and most people here realize that it isn't the end of Sturridge, far from it, he's just starting.... but it could well be the end of Torres, and it's a question of whether he finds his shooting boots or not, that's why every game he goes dry more questions arise.

[nullabletype 987]

Probably because Sturridge hasn't failed to score from his last 15...?

In any case, most of the journos yesterday were commending Torres for a good performance, but they are flabbergasted, quite naturally, when it comes to why he still can't put the ball inside the net.

That's not the point. Our matches aren't compromised of Fernando Torres vs 11 men. We all know he's not playing the best and that's fine. But I don't like how the rest of the teams faults are seemingly overlooked. Sturridge was only an example, but he could dissapear for 5 matches on the trot and you'd probably still never hear his name mentioned. This teams problems run deeper than Torres and it's all too easy to point the finger at him and blame him for droping points, as some have. It's not unusual for us to finish a game and to have had at last 50% of the team play under power, but even when that happens, all we hear is talk about what Torres did or didn't do.

Torres and Sturridge situations aren't even in the same worlds.. one is a 50 million striker who has probably worse goal record than Bendtner over one year. The other is a young striker turned winger who just has started to shine and managed to score more than Torres could ever dream of. A couple of expected anonymous performances are forgiveable, the issues they have are completely different. Current frenzy over Torres is a consequence of being goal-shy for a year (a YEAR, we're not talking about weeks as is the case with Danny). I'm sure that Sturridge will go berzerk mode once again, you can't be outstanding all the time, and most people here realize that it isn't the end of Sturridge, far from it, he's just starting.... but it could well be the end of Torres, and it's a question of whether he finds his shooting boots or not, that's why every game he goes dry more questions arise.

My issue isn't with Sturridge, I did say it was just an example. The point is as above. I'm bored of listening to the post game Torres show. Blame him all you want, there's 11 players on the pitch, and if you finish a game where maybe 2 or 3 turned up, we should be looking at everybody, not just one man.

[manpe 10,855]

Not sure which forum you've been reading, I find much more criticism towards the whole team (and Bosingwa) than on Torres. I haven't seen people blaming Torres for all of our misery, but of the lot we have, he's by far the biggest underachiever/performer (not mentioning Bosingwa, his standards have never been high). For all I know, people here realize that the problems are much more extensive than only Torres. Out of individuals, he's the most noticeable one for obvious reasons, but haven't you seen cries for overhaul, ®evolution? Concerns over the whole structure of the club. And out of individuals not only Torres gets stick, but also Bos, Sideshow, Malouda, Kalou, Drogba, Lampard, Mikel, Villas-Boas... in fact, most of our shit defensive displays are put on Bosingwa's shoulders and he gets blamed for losing us games much more than Torres.

The thing with Torres in the Norwich game was that he missed a golden opportunity which would have been the winning goal, hence 2 points rolled behind the goal not into the net where you want it to be. Blaming him for the whole team's miserable performance is over the top, but blaming him for losing us 2 points is peoples' way of showing how important that miss was in the game. Had it been any other striker, he would have got as much as stick... it's just that Torres gets analyzed more because he's been doing shit like that for a year now, that miss wasn't a fluke but a regular occurance, which makes people worried and rightly so.

[Blue Armour 4,165]

That's not the point. Our matches aren't compromised of Fernando Torres vs 11 men. We all know he's not playing the best and that's fine. But I don't like how the rest of the teams faults are seemingly overlooked. Sturridge was only an example, but he could dissapear for 5 matches on the trot and you'd probably still never hear his name mentioned. This teams problems run deeper than Torres and it's all too easy to point the finger at him and blame him for droping points, as some have. It's not unusual for us to finish a game and to have had at last 50% of the team play under power, but even when that happens, all we hear is talk about what Torres did or didn't do.

Bar that miss, Torres performed quite decently and does not deserve the blame he has got, but when the team fails to register a goal, the first player that is questioned is the striker. Unfortunately our striker in question also happens to be one of the most inconsistent one out there right now, and is thus an easy target. The only way these critcs will shut up is if El Nino does something himself. Nothing we say can change the situation.

[gary gordon 1,777]

I miss Drogba.....

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

So on one hand hes doing his ''damn hardest'', yet on the other hes also ''doing practically nothing''.

To be honest , the elephant in the room is £50 000 000 receipt. but you cant return the shoddy goods to the Liverpool shop. If it wasnt for that figure he wouldnt be getting starts, its the club desperately trying to save face.

Be gone in the Summer

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

I miss Drogba.....

Would barely be better and comparing them at most he thats all he has been, just a tony bit better.. It does seem this season that whenever Drogba is absent from a few games some sort of myth is created that Drogba will somehow be scoring lots of goals and winning games by himself, even if only its been one game where he has truely been world class.

Also am I the only one who fears when he comes back he will care even less on the pitch? I mean it seems certain that he will leave in the summer and get a massive rage rise so I won't be surprised if he does nothing else this season. Mainly becuase he will give less of a shit then he already has.

My biggest fear is that Torres will not score when Drogba is away. Then when Drogba immediatly comes back he is put on the starting 11 and does nothing out of laziness/

[Blue Armour 4,165]

My biggest fear is that Torres will not score when Drogba is away. Then when Drogba immediatly comes back he is put on the starting 11 and does nothing out of laziness/

Why the fear? If Torres doesn't score (and I hope it doesn't happen) till mid Feb (which is when Didier is likely to return), then there's nothing to lose by replacing him with DD.

If he's back among the goals before that, I'm pretty sure he'll retain his starting spot.

[Thistle 77]

Torres is at his most dangerous on a fast-break counter where he thrives on catching defenders out of position. This is why he was so deadly at liverpool because gerrard would constantly provide fast, defence-splitting balls.

However our playstyle is too slow for him to succeed.

[termninja 5,290]

He was a last-minute panic-buy and was signed with little tactical consideration

I wouldn't agree on the last-minute panic-buy. We tried to sign him before and before we signed him in January Liverpool have delayed his transfer because of Andy Carroll.

I will judge him after the Swansea game.

[gary gordon 1,777]

Would barely be better and comparing them at most he thats all he has been, just a tony bit better.. It does seem this season that whenever Drogba is absent from a few games some sort of myth is created that Drogba will somehow be scoring lots of goals and winning games by himself, even if only its been one game where he has truely been world class.

Also am I the only one who fears when he comes back he will care even less on the pitch? I mean it seems certain that he will leave in the summer and get a massive rage rise so I won't be surprised if he does nothing else this season. Mainly becuase he will give less of a shit then he already has.

My biggest fear is that Torres will not score when Drogba is away. Then when Drogba immediatly comes back he is put on the starting 11 and does nothing out of laziness/

Couldn't disagree more! Drogba has stated his desire to stay at the club and rejected other offers in the past to sign on with us.

He wore his heart on his sleeve in nearly every season till Torres arrived. How would you feel if you where once the main striker at a club who has won countless trophies, scored dozens of important goals and then told your getting replaced by the guy from Liverpool who has won fuck-all? On top of that, not being offered the contract you deserve and being told your free to look elsewhere. What would this do for your confidence? Would you be knocking them in left, right and centre?? Also, what would this be doing for the players around him? Seeing how such a loyal player is being treated would surely be playing on the minds of the others reaching there 30's.

We all know what Drogba is like, he needs to feel appreciated. At the moment, most of you guys are ready to throw him on the scrap heap. I for one think he has plenty of goals left in him. It's a shame we won't realize that until he's scoring them for someone else and where still stuck with our lemon.

[teignman 441]

A lack of service and confidence are probably the main culprits. Our form as a team has struggled since his arrival, and part of this has been trying to fit our team to Nando when we don't really have the personnel to service a player of his specific talents. I recently watched a compilation of all of Nando's goals with the dippers, and he just seemed to ooze self assurance and played with reckless abandon. But we've covered this ad nauseum on the forum so I won't say more to that end.

I'm generally not a believer in curses, bad luck, etc., but I just have a feeling the Torres transfer put the malocchio on us. Even when he plays well or decent, he seems to hit the post or the keeper pulls an amazing save out of his arse (yeah John Ruddy I'm talking to you). Hell, even the media, who seemed to take a good deal of pleasure from his struggles, are coming to this conclusion.

I think the media circus and his continuing drought drag the club down. I know it does to the supporters. I haven't been holding my breath for a return to the Nando of old. I think the pressure's has got to him from day one, and it will be an extremely impressive feat if he can regain a semblance of his former self finishing. However, I'll cheering him on and hoping for the best, cos he's not just any £50m striker that can't score for toffee. He's our £50m striker that can't score for toffee.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Couldn't disagree more! Drogba has stated his desire to stay at the club and rejected other offers in the past to sign on with us.

He wore his heart on his sleeve in nearly every season till Torres arrived. How would you feel if you where once the main striker at a club who has won countless trophies, scored dozens of important goals and then told your getting replaced by the guy from Liverpool who has won fuck-all? On top of that, not being offered the contract you deserve and being told your free to look elsewhere. What would this do for your confidence? Would you be knocking them in left, right and centre?? Also, what would this be doing for the players around him? Seeing how such a loyal player is being treated would surely be playing on the minds of the others reaching there 30's.

We all know what Drogba is like, he needs to feel appreciated. At the moment, most of you guys are ready to throw him on the scrap heap. I for one think he has plenty of goals left in him. It's a shame we won't realize that until he's scoring them for someone else and where still stuck with our lemon.

And I completly disagree with that, and this is not a personal attack on you but I think that mentality is the reason why we are in these difficult times. So what I'm interperetating from this post is that for some reason Drogba has this god given right to be Chelsea's main striker, and that it should acceptable for him to moan and complain when someone has the audacity to not start him every game? Even though in the last 15 months he has been below average bar one or two games? Where it seems his first touch and ability have been going down and don't seem to be returning? I'm sorry, but no player is bigger then the club and these levels of sentimental feelings from some fans has in my opinion, played a part to a player power problem where certain players at the club think that Chelsea is all about them. When you hear Lampard constantly talking about not dropping the old guard you can't help but feel that is the case.

And it seems to be that your saying that Drogba is a crybaby and emotionally weak. I'm mean he has taken the wrong attitude in the first place by demanding a 2 year deal even though he is nearly 34 and clearly is on the decline. To me I have a feeling he simply wants to be garunteed that he will have a large wage for at least 2 years. But if he really thinks he deserves it then surely he would be playing his heart. Giving world class performances or at the least trying his hardest. To me half the time he can't be bothered and just wants to be on the pitch for the sake of it. But either way IMO opinion his atitutde has been poor on the contract issue. The best way, if he really playes with his heart on his sleeve, would be to do this. Realise that the club needs to begin a new era, realises he is 34 and on the decline and that the club have set a new policy on players over 30 and new contracts (one year extentions). But he will except the one year extention (in my opinion he and a couple of players over 30 should not be even considered a one year contract extenttion) and play his gut out to show he still has value. And that he will keep fighting for a one year extention every season until its not physically possible.

However to me, it seems like he wants to bee sure he will still have the same wages for two more years, realises he won't get it and now could not give a shit about performances anymore. Frankley if that is the case, and with the club in the problems it faces, he and others like him should go. I'm sorry but the sentiment and mentalility you have shown would be a complete disaster for the club. Maybe I might be too harsh on Drogba. But his attitude bar some occasions as left me disappointed. Yet I think this happening with other Chelsea greats such as Lampard and Malouda.