Thibaut Courtois

[Henrique 9,133]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Im concerned he has let in a few soft goals yes, but like with Costa this season, I'm not worried in the medium to long term, he is a world class keeper and its only a matter of time before he returns to that status, after all Cech had his wobbles too.

I'm also not sure dropping him for Begovic even temporarily is the answer, despite him being far from his best he has still made impossible saves Asmir wouldn't have got near, Martial, Lingaard, Ibra for example, their is an argument he wouldn't have let in the same soft goals but even that isn't 100% certain, Davis vs Saints, Naismith's 3rd, Benteke and the goal Kiev scored in London he should have done a lot better with on every occasion.

Tibo needs to wake up a bit, but heis the least if our problems in the grande scheme of things.

Courtois is not a reliable GK. Even during last season he was making the same mistakes. Its no like he is under a bad form, its just the case this team is less solid in defense, so the opponents would create more chances. Courtois is the typical GK that can make one impossible save and minutes later concede an easy goal.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

A 23 year old Cech and a 23 year old Courtois there's a chasm in ability. Cech admittedly played behind a far better defence but he took the place of a world class keeper in Cudicini and in his first season only let in 15 goals. He commanded his area communicated with his back four and was a massive presence. Courtois is a major talent but doesn't command his area and keeps parrying shots towards the goalmouth and can on occasion look very nervy. He's been at fault for most of the goals we have conceded recently and  I don't think he should be dropped (yet). But for his first season in English football you can't give him more then six out of ten.

[DaddysHobby 60]

4 hours ago, Leif said:

lost me 1k. abuse him more

kLeif ... there's your 1k back.

[Tomo 21,681]

On 05/03/2016 at 11:50 PM, Henrique said:

Courtois is not a reliable GK. Even during last season he was making the same mistakes. Its no like he is under a bad form, its just the case this team is less solid in defense, so the opponents would create more chances. Courtois is the typical GK that can make one impossible save and minutes later concede an easy goal.

Every keeper relies on their defense to a point, even say Oliver Kahn was helpless at The Bridge that night in 2005 with his defence all over the shop.

Also Tibo is a reliable keeper, I can understand the argument for Cech to have been chosen but you don't achieve what he has at a young age if you're unreliable.

[Tomo 21,681]

On 05/03/2016 at 10:51 PM, Leif said:

Said it like 20 times that he should've been shipped off for £30m+ to any of the top clubs who would've paid that in a heartbeat for him so we could keep Cech 2-3 more seasons, buy a top player from Atletico then just scout up another goalie 'wunderkid' when Cech's done.

The board wanted a scouting mission to pay off so much they disregarded a legend who's the better player.

And if he got sold his thread would end up in a 300 page meltdown about how Jose is a short-sighted egotist, how the boards clueless and how the club will never gamble in youth amoung many other things every time he kept a clean sheet

[LAM09 6,549]

Shame that one blunder was is undoing. His save from Shaqiri should have been the moment talked about after the game

[11Drogba 2,000]

I don't think his performance is much worse this season. The number of saves he makes per goal conceded is exactly the same as last year. http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/thibaut_courtois/165/126/1558/0/p|premier_league/2015/2016/thibaut_courtois/165/165/1558/0/p#saves_per_goal#total I would not consider him one of the players whose performance dropped significantly.

[Jase 43,479]

12 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Fact is we can have Begovic in front of goal instead, and I can almost guarantee that we will still not have a clean sheet

Maybe. Maybe not. If we are going to concede, then at least make the opposition work for the goal. But if we're just going to let in some really cheap goals, then we might as well not bothered playing a goalkeeper at all. Some of the goals that Courtois has let in of late have been really poor - slow to come out of his line, getting beaten at his near post, flapping at crosses (used to be his strength!).

[Jase 43,479]

15 hours ago, Tomo said:

The fact he often plays well but still concedes says more about the defenders than it does about him.

From Miranda and Godin to Ivan and Cahill, I think anyone will be having kittens.

C'mon Tomo. Courtois wasn't exactly error-free either when he had Azpi-Terry-Cahill/Zouma-Ivanovic in front of him.

[11Drogba 2,000]

49 minutes ago, Jason said:

C'mon Tomo. Courtois wasn't exactly error-free either when he had Azpi-Terry-Cahill/Zouma-Ivanovic in front of him either.

Our problem is midfield imo. We can't control the tempo of a game even against much weaker teams. This makes the job of our defenders and goalkeepers more difficult. When I look at better performing teams the main difference I notice is how their midfield takes control of the games. Once they lose that control their highly praised defenders also start making mistakes.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

Our problem is midfield imo. We can't control the tempo of a game even against much weaker teams. This makes the job of our defenders and goalkeepers more difficult. When I look at better performing teams the main difference I notice is how their midfield takes control of the games. Once they lose that control their highly praised defenders also start making mistakes.

Regards of our problems in midfield or further forward, the team will come under pressure at some stage in each game and when that happens, you would want everyone, including the goalkeeper, to be competent at the very least in dealing with the opposition's threat. Like I alluded to above, if we're going to start letting in some really cheap goals, then we might as well just the them walk the ball into the net.

[11Drogba 2,000]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

 the team will come under pressure at some stage in each game

You guys were talking about the defenders in front of Thibo. I think Godin and Miranda would also make more mistakes if they were playing behind our midfield or Atletico was playing like we do.

We are coming under pressure too frequently even against much weaker teams. Defensive mistakes become harder to avoid then. That's the first problem we should solve imo.

 

[coolhead23 1,146]

16 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

Our problem is midfield imo. We can't control the tempo of a game even against much weaker teams. This makes the job of our defenders and goalkeepers more difficult. When I look at better performing teams the main difference I notice is how their midfield takes control of the games. Once they lose that control their highly praised defenders also start making mistakes.

Our problem is not one department but the team on the whole ... In a team everyone has a role to play (individual or collective) and we arent doing a great job at it. There are mistake done at every juncture and for me Courtoius has been off the radar for long atleast this season. He needs to really up his game to be a top player. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, 11Drogba said:

You guys were talking about the defenders in front of Thibo. I think Godin and Miranda would also make more mistakes if they were playing behind our midfield or Atletico was playing like we do.

We are coming under pressure too frequently even against much weaker teams. Defensive mistakes become harder to avoid then. That's the first problem we should solve imo.

 

Coming under pressure is normal. If we're going to crack under it so easily every time and make stupid mistakes, then there's major issues. I expect some form of competency from those players, to at least do their jobs properly.

[Muzchap 8,966]

It's just been one of those seasons - Willian hardly impressed in his first full season! Some players take longer than others, he's on a learning curve right now and this will see him sink or swim, personally I think he'll be ok and Begovic is a great replacement if not. 

[11Drogba 2,000]

17 minutes ago, Jason said:

Coming under pressure is normal.

I agree that our defense and Thibo needs perform better but Stoke city takes 10.9 shots on average per game. http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2015/2016/stoke_city/2/165/44/0/t#total_shots#avg

Against us in our home they took 16 and I don't think that's normal.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

16 hours ago, Special Juan said:

That was a massive mistake from him no matter how you dress it up. Yes, he made great saves today but if you are going to push the ball that you should be holding into the path of the opposition then the good saves mean fuck all.

Guus has rotated, he's talk of rotating and without hiding, this is one area he should of rotated in because Tibo of late has not been good enough.

 

I agree. It didn't happen just once in that game alone, either - he did it in the first half where he punched a cross straight into the danger zone and onto Cameron's head. When punching, you look for three things:

1. Height
2. Width
3. Distance

Height is the most important. Even if it goes straight up in the air, the advantage is restored to the goalkeeper as he should be the first person to be able to reach the ball in the air. It also gives defenders time to reset and protect the goalmouth. Width is the next most desirable characteristic - DO NOT punch it back into the 18 yard box, but rather out towards the wings. Ideally, out for a throw-in. Then comes distance. But height and width are by far the most important as they give time for the GK and defenders to reset. However, Thibaut is achieving neither of these, and he certainly isn't getting distance, either.

15 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Fact is we can have Begovic in front of goal instead, and I can almost guarantee that we will still not have a clean sheet

No I do totally agree - I am merely arguing that, with goalkeeping, the simple things (handling shape - "W" or "Cup", for instance) are more important. You can make outstanding saves like Thibaut did from Shaqiri in the second half, but if you're going to punch away - and punch away badly - crosses you should be comfortably claiming with both hands, there's little point. The basics need doing first. Fair enough if you get done from 20 yards with a rocket into the bottom corner - but we cannot be conceding goals like yesterday. Utterly awful. 

 

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Maybe. Maybe not. If we are going to concede, then at least make the opposition work for the goal. But if we're just going to let in some really cheap goals, then we might as well not bothered playing a goalkeeper at all. Some of the goals that Courtois has let in of late have been really poor - slow to come out of his line, getting beaten at his near post, flapping at crosses (used to be his strength!).

 

Exactly this, great response. Defensively we are still very poor - BUT undoubtedly more compact than under Mourinho. The simple facts suggest that Begovic kept more clean sheets in fewer games at a time when we were truly terrible and even worse defensively. 

[MCM4PR3Z 410]

Because the goalkeeper that keeps the most clean sheets in 5 random games is always the best goalkeeper, yes