capriccioso

My point is that he is overrated because when he plays without pressure or against a shit defence he'll run riot, which inflates his numbers. 5 group stage goals and a lucky shin/knee into the net. Hardly convincing. And if you go on NA1926.net, the Napoli forum we are twinned with, and ask them for an opinion of their defence, they will tell you it is overwhelmingly shit. I'm far more concerned about Ivica Olic, Robben, Ribery et al as threats. I'm sure Heyneckes knows that Gomez doesn't show up when things get tough; he'll probably leave him out there as a red herring.

0 goals against the top 4 Bundesliga sides this year. 12 against the bottom 4.

Lampard, Drogba, Kalou, Luiz, Cole. In that order, assuming Mata is subbed off.

Nothing is official. It's just a rumour.

I'll put it in my signature, if need be. Blame Cap if Gomez does well.

I doubt that very much. He's not going to pick up the slack in the biggest game of his life. He'll choke. Miss a penalty or miss a sitter.

Stats again: Benfica have lost 7 times in the last 4 seasons, excluding matches with Porto, Sporting CP and Braga. Porto have lost 4 times in the same time period under the same conditions. Sporting CP have lost 13 times " ". Braga have lost 9 times " ". Excluding clashes between the big 4 clubs, that's out of 88 games. Porto could in theory be on an 84 match unbeaten streak against clubs outside the big 4. Anyway, I feel this discussion is going nowhere. Let us just agree to disagree, you are of the opinion if someone can cut the mustard in Portugal they are capable of the same in England or anywhere else; I am more cynical and will always insist on discounting a Portuguese player's numbers.

Another brilliant point. Just like when the big two Spanish clubs come to visit, teams outside Porto, Sporting CP, Benfica and Braga roll over and accept that they're going to lose 4-0 and don't even bother making a fight of it. With that into account, I say except in extreme cases, the general rule of thumb for any attacking statistic from the Portuguese league is a discount of 30-40% to give us a more realistic amount of rough knowledge from which we deduce our expectations of a player.

Sir Benedict McCarthy laughs at Figo. For every case like Figo there are 5 like McCarthy.

The statistics do. Average players are brilliant in Portugal. Once they leave they perform significantly worse. What reason is there for it not to work the other way?

25-30% discount on his current numbers is likely what we'll get. 57 and 42 in 95, was it? We'll probably get around 40 goals and 30 assists in 100 appearances from him. While that is a good return, is it worth 36 million?

Heskey will be a goal every other game player in those countries. Carvalho is a defender, as I have already stated before, defenders are a different kettle of fish. If there is a defender that stands out in Portugal, he is certain to be world class. To even look competent when you're surrounded by a million Bosingwa's is an achievement. Quaresma? Why thank you for adding another example of players who can't hack it once they leave. Nani and Ronaldo? Teenagers when they left. 5 more years in Portugal and they may have given Eusebio's scoring records a run for their money. Falcao? While he has still been excellent at Atletico Madrid, his numbers have declined from his Portugal days. Once again, please read my post before jumping to conclusions. I never said Heskey will be better than Hulk in Portugal. I said he would be a far better player in Portugal than he has been in England.

He will bundle in 2000 goals against the Alemannia Aachen's and Wormatia Worms of the world. Stick him up against quality opposition and/or in a pressure situation and watch him crumble. For example, at Germany: No goals at international tournaments, and only 8 in qualifying- might I add, of those 8 goals that actually mattered, 2 were against San Marino and 2 against Austria, and one each against Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. He's got 2 international goals against any reasonable standard of an opponent, and even then, its only qualifying. He has also never scored an international goal against a top 20 ranked side.

Strikers are different. Any fool can score bucket loads there. The only Hulk statistics that haven't been inflated are his European stats: 42 games, 15 goals, 7 assists. Decent, but not enough to convince me he won't be Sturridge Mk II on the wing.

Afonso Alves in the Netherlands: 48 goals, 39 games. Afonso Alves In England: 13 goals, 47 games. Nuno Gomes in Portugal: 202 goals, 519 games. Nuno Gomes outside Portugal: 20 goals, 64 games. Benni McCarthy in Portugal: 111 games, 53 goals Benni McCarthy in England: 153 games, 52 goals Mario Jardel in Portugal: 186 games, 186 goals Mario Jardel outside Portugal: 69 games, 30 goals. There is a huge drop in quality.

Ronaldo and Nani were teenagers when they left Portugal. Falcao had a better record than Hulk. 72 goals in 85 games.

That doesn't change the fact that if you send a rubbish striker there like Afonso Aves or Heskey they'll be scoring loads. We should be looking at Hulk's European record, when he actually plays tough defences.

An excellent point. Mickey Mouse leagues like Portugal and Netherlands are always very accommodating for strikers and generally have slapstick defending. Which is why some of the best signings from those countries tend to be defenders (Carvalho, Vermaelen, etc.)- you need to be very good to look competent as a defender when your fellow defensive colleagues are rubbish.

Here's a decent article from Vital Chelsea: http://www.chelsea.v...le.asp?a=529182 To save some time, here were the more salient points: Lewandowksi rogered Bayern's defence right up the backdoor, and he isn't anywhere near as good at doing that as Drogba, who can give even the very best a torrid time. Tymoschuk and van Buyten are slow as tug boats- Torres, Sturridge, Kalou, Mata and even Drogba should be able to run rings round them. Harassing the midfield can limit the touches on the ball for Robbery. They will come deep to get the ball where they'll be far less effective. Mario Gomez proved to the world yet again that he is the most overrated footballer of his generation.The last I made up the last point.T It was not part of the article.

And where does Ramires figure in all this? I'm worried that we are spunking our money on someone who'll turn out to be similar to Sturridge, selfish and poor in work rate. Now, those traits are absolutely fine in a striker, but not in a winger. If we sign him, I think we have to still look for a new winger and play Hulk as a striker.

Does that mean I am given a spot in your trophy cabinet of beloved posters, alongside Henri and BlueLyon? Or are you trolling?

No, it really is quite poor. Perhaps we'll change our minds once some clearer pictures come through. Our kits generally grow on me. I didn't like the 10/11 kit with the red collar at first but towards the end of the season loved it, same goes for our home and third kits this season. Never really liked that checked black away shirt we had this season.

Sloth, you're a fucking nightmare. I can never be sure when you're trolling and when you're not. Replying to you is as hard as defending on Lionel Messi without wearing a Chelsea shirt