OneMoSalah

Did you see how open we were when we lost the ball the first half of the season under Sarri? Even in that 18 game unbeaten run. I mean the Brighton and Arsenal games was a very very early indication of how open we were regardless of the style and how many goals we were scoring because the gaps between the midfield and defence were huge. And he saw this clearly hence why after we struggled for a bit we seemed.to finally click and went on that 15-20 match run in all competitions where we didnt lose. Cesc said something that he stopped players from midfield making as many forward runs off the ball or something and our attacking play undoubtedly suffered as we didnt have that extra threat (also Hazard, Willian, Morata all at times throughout the season holding onto the ball far too long and didnt have the same selflessness to make runs off the ball in behind teams compared to what the likes of Mertens, Insigne, Callejon did at Naples and Pedro here) but we were definitely more compact as a team and didnt look as open without the ball. People forget Sarri had 3 years at Napoli and they werent quite as consistent or very good in terms or how they played until the 2nd year which if he got here, as preciously mentioned by Tomo, I think he would have us doing better. I dont think he, Conte or the likes of an Allegri would have us doing worse. We have like 5 wins in 3 months.

Hopefully back on track but last 2 seasons we have struggled with Bournemouth. Will be really intriguing to see what happens if they beat us like they did under Mauricio and Antonio. I severely doubt their will be the same uproar (which would be wrong imo) but looking back at it we lost 10 PL games under Conte on 17/18, 8 PL games last season under Sarri and have already lost 9 under Frank this season. There is still 3 months of the season left and we cannot afford anymore losses or draws. Anyone else and I think there would be a lot lot more speculation regarding their job, seems odd that while there is some it is nowhere near as intense as usual.

Maybe hasnt flogged Abraham or maybe he has but regardless, as weve seen with Kante, Emerson and Rudiger earlied this season hes probably put him back in far too soon. And again, it has come back to bite us. "It’s a month later [from the Arsenal game] and we’re still talking about it so it’s been a frustrating one. We have seen him come back and then go away again. Sometimes things that are [to do with] pain threshold are like that. If he is not comfortable, he has to come out for a few days at least and see where it is going.” Well thats clever. Why play him? If he constantly needed pain injections or whatever and was playing through pain for the last month? These things never end up well and always aggravate or end up in a longer spell out. We are already short in numbers in other positions and options upfront so for him to now be coming out with this when he has played Tammy in over 130 minutes since that Arsenal game, where he picked up this problem, its just stupidity. Careless handling of a younger player, just let the guy heal up and play him when he is 100%.... even if he isnt completely happy about it. Why risk it in a position where he knows we need quality in too? Just seems daft. Even more so when you see him select Batshuayi and how pathetically he does but I am glad FL has seemed to be forced to go with Giroud more recently, one way or another (although I wish it wasnt due to Tammy having an injury). As mentioned countless times, Kante, Emerson and Rudiger were rushed back this season and look how that panned out. He hasnt learned that sometimes you need to let guys heal properly when theyve suffered certain types of injuries, obviously, or he would be more cautious. Lets just hope we dont get any more because with Callum, Kante and Pulisic still out we really cant afford any more. Big part of the season coming up now for us and having all our better playsrs fit is only going to benefit us.

At the start of the season with likes of Pogba, Martial, Lindelof, de Gea and Rashford people would of probably expected them to finish above us because under the right manager that is potentially a very good spine. Sure they lack in other areas and sold Lukaku but I dont think people would of necessarily disagreed. Other than in MF (Pogba and Fernandes excluded) wouldn't say we are miles ahead of them anywhere else when you compare us player for player, even more so considering the fact we had 4 young players unproven in the league as well as the likes of Willian, Barkley, Alonso, Emerson etc in the squad. Dont get me wrong they also have weakpoints and collection of average players but I mean if you really think the likes of De Gea, Lindelof, Maguire (still overrated based on price tag I mean hes good but not 80m good), Shaw, Pogba, Fred (big improvement reasonably consistent and very very solid player now as well), McTominay (hate to say it but again a massive improvement and one of their most vital MFers due to his energy and physicality), Bruno Fernandes, Rashford and Martial (was crazy how many people wanted him here under Sarri...) are inferior players to guys like Kepa, Christensen, Emerson, Alonso Willian, Pedro, Mason, Barkley and Tammy among others then I dont know. Some still have scope to grow on our end yes but right now, its hardly as if I would be severely underrating our players or undertaking overrating their players. Other than Pogba and Fernandes (better than our more advanced midfield players) yes we beat them in terms of MF quality because we have Kante, Ruben (will he play as an 8?), Kovacic and Jorginho in deeper positions who would still play ahead of Fred, McTominay, Matic, Pereira and that horrible bastard Lingard who is a championship footballer if hes lucky. Both defences are probably as bad as each other although would rather Shaw than Emerson or Alonso (when he had 1 year left on his deal before he came up a notch under Mourinho, was gutted we didnt go for him, finally seems as if his fitness issues aside now the last 18 months hes been pretty decent and consistent) and think Lindelof now looks a much better CB after a tough time when he first arrived and would probably be able to displace a few of ours. I am curious to see which other positions you think we have better players than them in? Other than central midfield but again throw in Pogba and Fernandes, they are more creative than our midfielders. Both defences have struggled so you cant expect me to believe you think ours is better than theirs either by a country mile. Attack is about evens, they have inconsistent players such as James and Martial but again these guys have done more this season than Willian, Pedro and Barkley and are considerably younger so they still have the scope to grow that people have argued for Tomori, Mount, Tammy, James etc. Rashford may not be everyones cup of tea but hes always been a player I have thought will end up a very very good player and to have really been carrying the goalscoring burden for United at his age is pretty impressive, even more so as I dont feel he is a number 9, he is more a wide forward. A better manager and theyd probably be better off, OGS is out of his depth similarly to what Frank has maybe found himself in although I think hes in a worse position because he went and sold their only real 20 goals a season man. Say they sign 3 or 4 players of a good quality in the summer, even with Ole, they have a chance of progresssing. We also have the same chance but it remains to be seen what or who will come in. Spurs at the start of the season were also tipped to finish above us for sure due to the players they have in positions we are perhaps not as strong in (CF, #10, outwide and in defence). The top 4 race is going to be very interesting, theres still a huge chance we miss out if this bad run continues and even Arsenal have got 2 guys in Lacazette and Aubamayang who are guaranteed to score goals regularly, a manager who has gotten a clear visible improvement out of others such as Pepe, Ozil in attack as well as youngsters who have got good potential such as Saka, Martinielli (will be a top player looks very very good) and Nketiah. Even defensively bar Olympiakos and the Everton games they have looked more cohesive and organised. We did beat them but again I think come the start of next season with them and Spurs getting full pre seasons with their managers they will be completely different outfits to now which doesnt bode well if they can get top 4 at our expense this season.

But thats also like saying the same about Pulisic at the start of the season or anyone else at any other team whos doing well when others habe struggled, isnt it? Hes a pretty good player, maybe not upto the world class level like Lampard said in a press conference but he is a huge upgrade on what they have. I just hope they dont add 3 or 4 more of that ilk or better for next season. I mean even if Fernandes can create chances with the likes of Rashford, Martial (although he looks as if he can't be arsed), Pogba (motivation and consistency issues) around him doing similar and chipping in with goals, they will become more potent offensively. The tools are there in some positions, someone just need to find a way to get them all in the team and become productive as a collective. They arent a million miles of being a top 4 side, if they got Pochettino (would be really worried if they did) or OGS somehow miraculously managed to get them working, they will compete for top 4 next season a lot better than they have this year. I mean their GK is as good as any in the PL (okay his standards have slipped this year and last but he is a world class GK undoubtedbly). I would say defensively Wan Bissaka is about as good as they come in the PL for fullbacks and Lindelof while maybe not the best CB out there he certainly looks more mature and confident than that shaky player he waa with Mourinho. Pogba when hes not thinking about his next haircut can be unplayable on his day as can Martial and Rashford. There is potential there for a good team. For all of Gerrards European success this season with Rangers their league form has been pathetic since the winter break and he has continously through his players under the bus every single time. They were above Celtic for maybe 1 or 2 games, seemed to get ahead of themselves and now after the winter break they are 12 points behind them. Hes done a half decent job but it will take more than someone, who was talking about being talked about for the Liverpool job (bit premature even for Liverpool fans), to stop this Celtic team winning 10 in a row and maybe going for a few more doubles or trebles. Rangers seem to have no bottle when the pressure cranks up and the games where theyve dropped points are the ones that can decide leagues regardless of if you beat Celtic or not because the smaller teams all like getting a scalp against the Old Firm. Both legs of that Celtic game was an interesting watch, if they were more clinical in the first half in the first leg it wouldnt of even been a contest. Even tonight they they created a few chances to score before they did but didnt take them. Dont think Lennon has done any worse in Europe than Rodgers or anyone else thats been there since he was previously in charge. Actually a lot of Celtic fans seem to prefer how he has his teams play in the league and European games to what it was under Rodgers the last 18 months he was there. Copenhagen also have a very interesting and sustainable way of business, seem to have turned a good profit on some younger players when moving them on to the Italian, German and French leagues and continue to win leagues and get into European football over a long period. Anyway, as a Scot, good to see the Old Firm duo at least getting past the group stages for once as well, bodes well for the Scottish game. Still feel Celtic shouldnt have to play the 3 or 4 qualifiers before either like Ajax and these other teams, its called the Champions League for a reason but money talks and thats why we see 3 PL, Spanish and other leagues teams in automatically as well as a 4th place side getting the qualifiers while historically big clubs like Celtic, Ajax etc get fucked off (despite winning the leagues regardless of standard) and put through rounds of qualification which just defeats the purpose of calling it the champions league in my eyes. It is just a European competition based on clubs incomes or league standings now a days.

Ffs if he is pulling up in a cool down, surely he clearly wasnt fit or recovered enough to be playing or in the squad? I mean he has rarely had a history of injuries either in his career. We are turning into Arsenal with these constant injuries and its only happened since this summer. Not sure what is happening behind closed doors but weve never had this problem with huge amounts of recurring injuries with multiple players in a season as far as I can remember. Throughout points of the season Emerson, Rudiger, Kante and now Tammy have been injured, came back then gotten injured again within a short time. Throw in Pulisic who has had his own problems, Pedro has been out this season, Callum was out (meant to be close to coming back though) and Kante being injured again too with a different issue now. Something needs to be looked at.

Doubt Oblak will come here. That cheap as well no chance. Nick Pope would be a laughable signing for first choice too. Back up decent enough but first choice cmon

Look at us under Conte in his first year compared to now, the difference is huge. The fight in this team isnt there for me, we concede one goal roll over and end up losing even more. Man City game at the Etihad under Antonio was one of the best big games weve played in years, 1-0 down but won 3-1, agter that equalizer it looked pretty obvious we would go on to win the game.imo because we did all the things you want to see from.a big team.in a big game. As for the other comment about English. He might not speak English but neither did Ancelotti, Conte, Pep or Klopp either at some point. Its not as if he cant learn.... Allegri also learning. As well as many many others who have over time.

Again though if it was anyone else would it be as big a problem? Jorginho seems to get some sort of special criticism everytime we lose for something even if it is minimal such as a booking for dissent. Be it 1 bad pass or a wee booking that hardly altered the game or this or that. Theres still an heir of the whole Sarri's man scapegoat sort of thing around him I feel. He isnt immune to criticism but he seems to get it more or less every week for wee stupid things that if it was anyone else it wouldnt be mentioned or an issue in my eyes. Even more annoying nobody's brought this comment up that Frank said this after the game "Our choice of pass in the final third has to improve." I mean really?! What does he expect? He started 2 of our most inconsistent players in advanded positions vs Bayern Municu ffs. Wont go into it as we've been discussing in Mason's thread and Ross' for a long long time about these things. I mean as bad as it sounds not starting Willian, who showed vs Barcelona 2 seasons ago over 2 games he can hurt top teams and even in some of the minutes he had yesterday he looked more purposeful thsn both, then says that. He is starting to sound like Ole Solskjaer a lot. Particularly after big games. Excuses after excuses despite the things hes bringing up being directly created by his selections. Questions need to be asked.

Perhaps but its not as if nobody gets booked for dissent in other teams or leagues or as if players getting booked for dissent is a major issue that only we have. Its part and parcel of modern day football because referees are so protected from players giving them a bit back or disagreeing with their decisions.

Not sure for definite. If it was successful the fans wouldn't be bothered because wed get good results and be competing. Plus the fight and application his Atletico teams have shown particularly the bigger games, it is exceptional. Do we have that fight or passion in this group? Not necessarily sure.

They are just efficient and want to get to the front players quicker so they can do the damage. None of this fucking about passing around the back trying to look good and playing safe. Or trying to be Barcelona or Ajax or whoever. Good Bayern teams have always been like this. Under Jupp when they won the treble before Pep went there as well they were able to control games but they just wanted to go and get into the final third as often as they could.

Again being vice captain and getting a booking it means nothing at all, these things happen, how many times did Cahill, Terry etc all get bookings or worse? Plus if him getting booked is one of the biggest issues or a problem from that game then we clearly watched different games. If it wasnt Jorginho youd not make a fuss I reckon... Would be more concerned about the performance as a whole, the defence and team shape again after all the praise v Spurs, Mount and Barkleys performances especially and Alonso's red all much much bigger issues.

If pressing is affecting the rest of his game then fuck knows how hes made it being a professional footballer because a lot of players can do it and still manage to deliver with the ball. I mean did pressing affect all of Peps Barca team with all those players or his Man City team now or Conte's Juventus teams etc consisting of Marchisio, Pogba, Vidal, Pirlo etc? It didnt. He is maybe one of the triggers for our press but if thats affecting his ability on with the ball then he needs to get fitter and much much better.

Actually good points regarding his performances in particular the last few seasons, although they've still severely overachieved throughout his time there. I feel his system and style suits knockout football more and against smaller teams they can sometimes find themselves struggling to take the initiative with the ball although theyve still improved compared to where they were beforehand too at the beginning under him. I think Atletico will be lucky to ever win another Liga in the next 5-10 years regardless of manager and their styles because Barca and Real can just get away with slow starts by pasting everyone from a certain point onwards, lets be honest when you have/had Messi or Ronaldo you can always catch the difference. Plus theyre always gonna recruit the top level of players compared to them, the Pogbas, Griezmanns, Suarez, de Jongs, Coutinhos whoevers going and have top ready made players/generation talents compared with Atletico maybe bar the odd one having.to go for more further afield options or players they wouldnt take. Still think Simone regardless of the style has built a team that never seem to know when their beat in the big games, their attitude and application is fantastic. Theyve only lost 40 odd games in the league in his whole time there too which is very impressive considering hes been there 8 or 9 seasons. I just get the feeling he would be successful here too. Precisely. Thought going with 3/5 at the back would of been an appropriate enough start but boy was I wrong 😂 suppose we will probably get our annual humilation by Bournemouth now too.

Dont see what the problem would be with Simone or even Frank taking a leaf from his book in these bigger games. His approach in these sort of games isnt necessarily the worst thing.

As mentioned in previous page. End product. Needs to be consistent regardless of if you are 21 or 30 in these games. For a number 10, all the running and pressing and tackling in the world will not get your team anywhere v the likes of Bayern etc.

I see is back Anyway, Kepa Azpi-Christensen-Rudi James-Jorginho-Kova-Alonso\Emerson Willian-Giroud-Mount No Callum, Kante or Pulisic due to injuries. Pedros available and RLC is back so heres hoping Ruben gets some minutes. Interested to see where he will fit in for sure with Frank and if he can get back to the levels he did last season. Still unsure where he would feature in a 343 though which I think in these games is our best option as the bulk of the defensive players have the experience of playing it together and are probably better suited to it imo (doesnt mean it will nevvessarily work tonight I suppose but who knows?). Think going with a back 4 would be a bit of a risk. Plus 3 CBs v 1 Lewandowski seems a bit fairer 🤣

I know he had double figures for Vitesse in each but I dont think he had at Derby. Again though, as we have said all season Lampard has overplayed him and neglected others but again the onus to perform falls on the player, I wouldnt say he was flogged as such but more that he was be selected when playing poorly. He can do better as weve seen this season but I get the feeling he will be a streaky player for now few good weeks then some poor for another season or two which is frustrating. Its an age thing as well but I still think as we seen at the beginning of the season he has a lot more than what he has shown before the last month or so. Re Oscar: Perhaps but there were patches where even he showed a bit of consistency at spells and he hadnt had the luxury of playing in Europe or being older when we got him in the team. Then when he was say 21 or 22 we expected more from him. Mount and Oscar do have a lot of similarities too as players, boths 10s, slighter players who like to try play quick 1 and 2 touch combinations, regular set piece takers (although corners from both need/needed improved as well), like to get into the box, try to score goals. Its an inevitable comparison before taking into account the usefulness in big games more for traits youd not necessarily expect or want to see your being recognised for in bigger games.

Think as well, which hasnt been mentioned at all, Frank deployed a back 5 where 4 of the 5 players have regularly played in a back 3 under various managers at other teams and here. It isnt exactly the same obviously Frank has put his touch on it but the basics of it are the same with and without the ball, make the pitch as wide as possible with it to try utilize the free man out wide which eventually ends up creating space in the middle and then make the pitch narrow without it. The players are used to it and have trained it alot (especially with Antonio who was hugely renowned for team shape exercises in training and obviously 343/352 is his preference tactically). Azpi under Conte here, Christensen at Mochengladbach and here under Conte, Rudiger at Roma, here under Conte and for Germany and Alonso at Fiorentina and here under Conte. Theyve also played it together countless times as mentioned with that time under Conte. Thats probably a huge reason as to it looked more natural and how we looked more comfortable in it I think compared to Spurs, who have predominantly deployed a back 4 under Jose (and Pochettino before) more or less every game (Jose only really ever gone 3 at the back by sacrificing a fullback for an attacker when his team needs a goal in stages of games, particularly at Inter, Madrid and here). The players know their roles more clearly in it imo than when he play a back 4 most weeks. Alonso and Azpi aren't too sure in a 4, they know they have to go forward but leave space in behind them. In a 3 they both have different roles but it also masks issues of theirs, Alonso has a CB behind him who is better positioned to cover him and Azpi isnt as far up the pitch where he will struggle to recover/be caught out of position more. I think going with a 4 v Bayern would be a huge mistake as well. Go for the same 3 CBs then James and Emerson although Alonso could deserve to remain in the team as his offensive contribution v Spurs was good.

Perhaps but I think other than that one season at Vitesse his assist rate isnt that great, dont think he got a huge bunch for Derby IIRC was more goals. He has to become better at that side of the game (inconsistent end product is as big a reason as to why he hasnt got that many as a team that is the unfinished article) as well as the goals which he seems to be able to get although this season he is at a higher level. He has been overplayed I will agree as well as being played through a shit spell when FL could of took him out the firing line and playing in a team that can still improve (ironically his position off the front can be improved on and hopefully Ziyech will be a real option there as I think he will be more productive centrally) but I think he needs to show more creativity. In both the big games and the smaller games for us. Its no good just being useful as a player who plays in an advanced position who will put a shift in and willing to press as weve said, yes those things are useful but you expect it from every player regardless. If we become a title challenging team and he hasnt developed that creative side many will get even more frustrated than him and a ruthless manager will bench or get rid of him. He can potentially be a 10+ goal and assist player in time but using Dutch league and Championship performances as a barometer isnt exactly necessarily going to help ease those doubts for many. Although I do see it both ways. Bar the 2 big games, the Burnley (at the Bridge) and Leicester matches, Mason hasnt impressed me for a long while.. probably since the reverse game v Burnley at Turf Moor. He has played virtually every game all season and for arguably 2 to 3 months was a passenger and a huge reason why we struggled in an attacking sense. He hasnt scored since December in the league and only has 3 assists since October (which for someone who also takes set pieces and freekicks isnt exactly good is it?). Yes he deserves an opportuinity to grow and progress as he is still only 21 but the comparisons with Oscar at times is even off because Oscar would consistently score more goals and get more assists at times too.

He said Liverpool suit his style. Id say like when we went after Chamberlain under Conte and Cavani in January we are probably never going to be his first choice. Even with all the bonuses or money in the world.

Yeah he is young still but it depends though. Normally with these more creative players who play off the front or as a more advanced midfielder, even when they are younger, you can see the ability or the potential and things like if they can see those runs and execute the final pass. I am yet to be fully convinced he will be a top creative player due to this. I still think he is a bit safe. Think this is why people will also make the envitable Oscar comparisons. Oscar was comfortable at many things but he never ever would of made that jump to be a top top player because he never had that final pass as well as the consistency. That could change but again I dont see him in the mould of like Dele Alli either who is more of a rounded midfield player whos major contribution to a team is going to be goals.

Dont think thats exactly the most promising thing to use, he could go and play good again ir go and have an absolute horrorshow. Lewandowski is in great form as well.

Fucking hell Frank starts Giroud and he fucking scores. Hopefully that means no more Batshuayi from the beginning. Plays a natural left sider on the left and we looked 100 times better too. What has Frank been thinking the previous months? Would really like to know. Barkley as well has struggled some games this season but another who could of been used more. Food for thought. Mount, surprisingly in the last 2 games vs top teams, very good.