OneMoSalah

How is it irrelevant? It is like saying what any other player has done on loan is irrelevant when judging them which is frightening considering his last appearance for us was basically over a year ago and a sub appearance. And then the season beforehand when he came back he was comfortably off the pace (slightly understandable) and then never ever had a chance really. Yes 10 goals 5 assists in under 2000 minutes aye thats fair, looks good but break it down again, 6 league goals and 4 Europa League goals. Not sure on the assists. But again, was that not 3 seasons ago? I mean take that season out and well if Ruben had showed this at Palace and at Fulham, I could see the point. But he hasn’t. That is the point. Not consist enough, not done anything bar a 4 month period with Sarri. Aye maybe he lost a bit from his injury, maybe it was a purple patch? I mean outside of that season here, prior to that season and after, near 50 games making up 2 seasons out on loan and a combination of 3 goals at Palace and Fulham. Its difficult to see why you would think a top end Italian team would go for him based on something he did in 2018-19. Although I suppose weirder things have happened. And I doubt he has nice memories of RLC considering the gurning fucking fans who wouldn’t leave him alone for not playing RLC and CHO for weeks 🤣 surely reckon he would of smoked about 2000 cigs by then. Bakayoko was maybe part of one of the best teams Europe (aye I know, sounds ridiculous considering he couldn’t trap a sandbag yet alone a ball 90% of the time he played here) although still how he has played for France, us, Milan and Napoli baffles me but I suppose he has got that season and maybe a few ones before it of consistent performances to build it up and back it up in France no? Or at least something to fall back on... where as Ruben has under 2000 minutes throughout his whole career in mens football which spans 8 seasons. I mean who next? Juventus to sign Ross Barkley? I mean fair enough, if Sarri wants either he can have them but if you think hes going to make them his top choices or push for them at all, well I want some of what your smoking, because well.... its about as likely as pigs flying or unicorns being real. Re Higuain, Sarri wanted him in the summer after being appointed here... he chose AC over us. It was different, thats why he went for him still in the January. Plus he had worked with him to a great deal of success over a 3 year period. I doubt hes going to replace any of his star players with any of the Chelsea loan army if it comes to it 🤣

Would be wishful thinking but about as likely as pig flying or seeing a unicorn in real life. I mean I am sorry but why make these daft former manager wants former player assumptions when there is about a 0.00001% chance of these happening in all realism 🤣 I mean why would he go for RLC when Lazio have Sergej Milinkovic-Savic and Luis Alberto? Why would anyone? Ruben could only get a loan move to Fulham who got relegated this season, where he played extremely poor, so why would Lazio take a gamble???? It would be one of the stupidest moves ever. Player who doesn't possess any real incision as an attacking midfielder joins one the most defensive/tactical leagues in the world .... dear god. I just hope we dont have him back next season at all costs also but I don't think we will be so lucky that Sarri or any other major Italian team will sign him either 🤣 Even if they lose one or both of those, I would be shocked beyond belief if he wanted either Ruben and if they could if they could afford his 120-150k wages and even more so if Lazio could afford 1/2 of Jorginho as these will start eventually (who is probably going to be getting a new deal and one of Tuchel's favorites) ... Well someone has to start them! Would cost too much. Not as bad as the RLC one though and at least more realistic 🤣

Yeah was funny he was done earlier in the season, last season and then the season beforehand. Nothing shocks me though, there were folk on here saying we should sell Kante for a big fee over the last 2/3 summers also because “he was approaching 30” and “had a spell of niggling injuries” 🤣

Aye he shouldn’t get any credit for me. As harsh as it may be for some, its daft and seems more like pity as opposed to for achieving/deserving something. He deserves credit for putting the young guys in. 100%. But for last season. Which he got in an abundance. If people want to give him credit for that this season they are being naive/overextending it from last season for me. I get its not a matter of just putting kids in and then they are perfect but bar Mason (and Tammy for maybe 6 or 7 games), the others didn’t really kick on this season until Tuchel came in. Reece looked poor at times. Fikayo Tomori never played and was loaned out in January due to a lack of playing time. Callum Hudson-Odoi was well on the bench/out the squad for probably half the season until Tuchel came in. I disagree, I don’t think we can really credit him. As mentioned on the previous page its like crediting Villas-Boas in 2012. How is it any different? Its not. Villas-Boas brought Ramires game to another level, bought in Mata, brought in Meireles, guys who contributed in the CL run up but nobody said he contributed/deserved any praise at any point. Which is correct as well. Conte was the one who gave Callum his debut actually. Then Sarri built on that eventually. Callum did play under Frank if you look back on the 18 months but nowhere near as frequently as the others did or what people felt he would have in terms of minutes. I find the Frank made the foundation of the team point a bit off considering he had basically benched Rudiger, Jorginho and Azpilicueta for the best part of the season before he got sacked who were huge parts of the team with Tuchel. He also played a totally different shape 90% of the time, the team had no clear identity and he had used Kai Havertz, Timo Werner and Ngolo Kante in probably 7 different roles between them. Havertz literally played as an 8, 10 and a right winger, Kante as a 6 and a 8, Werner as a 9 and a left winger. So again I don’t really see where this foundation your talking about came from.... unless you mean he bought the players and played the youngsters but that was it? Which is hardly as meaningful a contribution as many will give him praise for somehow? Playing kids last season, aye, absolutely he deservedly got credit and not only did he play them because he wanted to play them, he obviously trusted there talent but again don’t think it can be overplayed/overstated this season that bar Mason and James, he didn’t play them as often (which is fine I get it he brought players in) as alluded to above. He didnt find the way to maximise 250m worth of players. He didn’t find a way to give a team a clear identity. All the things in which Tuchel has done. So how is it fair to give him credit?

How has someone who has got Everton a 12th place and 10th place finish wound up back at Madrid after spending nearly 100m, honestly what the fuck..... I think hes done at top level and hes similar to Zidane as well. I thought Conte would of been nailed on there so where hes going to go now is weird, maybe back to Italy after the Euros depending how they do maybe? Also maybe now Carlo going back to Madrid opens up opportunities for Frank to be considered for Everton job? 😂

I don’t want to beat a man when he’s down as his successor has just pulled off an amazing feat but I get the feeling some of the praise by corners of the media, folk on here and even by Tuchel himself re Frank earlier on in the season in the run up to the CL final is vastly exaggerated. In fact I would say its more out of pity than merit if I were to be blunt and I am sure that Frank would of preferred to be given merit on what hes actually achieved as opposed to riding on the coattails of another manager who did the hard part. People will say okay he got us out the groups unbeaten - yes he did - but a group containing Sevilla, Rennes and Kransador... come on you’d think it was the group of death. I am glad someone mentioned Villas-Boas, as he got us out a group containing Valencia, Genk and Bayer Leverkusen but deservedly so, he never got any/much credit for the CL win in 2012 as his sacking was really a catalyst to change and the situation here couldn’t be more so similar for me. Frank deserves credit for using the youngsters 100% as its not as simple to say he had to use them because he clearly didn’t just use them because he had to. He did because he believed in them and for that, he deserved huge credit which he got last season. At the same time though, they’ve gone to another level as well as most of the team with Thomas Tuchel in a shorter space of time than what they did with Frank and that is unfortunate and perhaps a bit unfair but thats life. He will always be credited with giving those boys their debuts and signing the likes of Timo, Havertz, Ziyech, Mendy, Chilwell etc but again, getting the team out of the group stage whilst it helped lets not go over the top either and start saying we should send him a CL winners medal or give him a bonus. We got found out hideously against Bayern last season in the CL and high chances are, unfortunately, it would of likely been much the same with him v Atletico, Porto, Real Madrid and Man City in all likelihood as he was always pessimistic/negative towards what this group could achieve now. His spell here actually mirrors Villas-Boas’ spell much much more than I think many will admit to (probably just because of who he is and maybe the whole AVB-Frank situation that reportedly happened at the time also). Frank seemed to tick the boxes on long term planning with promoting and playing the kids, with wanting to close the gap gradually and get to being title winners eventually as opposed to going you know what we can do something this season that nobody would expect. He had his limitations (and so does every manager, even the Peps, Klopps, Tuchels etc) so maybe closing the gap and building the club up slowly/gradually whilst learning was all he could of done. Maybe its unfair to have expected more or what people expected/will expect of the Jose’s, the Conte’s, the Sarri’s, the Tuchel’s etc but they’ve done the hard work or yards to get to where they are and that was always going to be Franks downfall as soon as things started going, well, wrong, he doesn’t have the CV to buy him time or there were no obvious signs things were progressing in the right way. Still interested to see which job he takes next because managers tend to do not too bad when they get sacked here in terms of 1) getting a respected/decent job afterwards and 2) doing well in that job.

I still think if they'd beaten us in either of the two games we had played prior to the final it would of been a different game all together. One off games are weird to analyse maybe from outside of the performance point of view but I felt mentally, we had their number from the two big wins v them prior when nobody’s gave us a chance as well as the emotion and mental element for them in their first final perhaps being an issue/overwhelming them. Something I think that has hardly been mentioned is also it was Agueros last ever game for City and for guys like Kevin de Bruyne, Fernandinho, Kyle Walker, Gundogan, Mahrez, this may have been their best/one or their last chances to win a CL. It is that sort of nature where you might get to a final one year and then never again or it might take another 5-10 years depending on how lucky you are. Or less if your ever luckier. It just depends. I feel they just wanted it far too much after seeing Pep’s line up which, I just get the feeling the outside factors affected Pep’s thinking for the starting 11 as well as the obvious talk of City winning it in the build up maybe put extra pressure on or gave them extra confidence. Plus Pep’s had the pressure on him to win a CL outside of Barca since being at Bayern. Everyone knows he’s great and hes got all the leagues, the cups, the domestic records etc but hasn’t won a CL in 10 years at two very good teams whilst others have or have gone further with less resources/time. Maybe these things didn’t contribute as much or maybe they did more but I feel they cannot be discounted in any regard. And performance wise, I dont think its as if we did something that wasn’t obvious prior to these games beforehand or the final itself. City play a high line and have always done so with Pep, going back to under Conte when we beat them 3-1 at the Etihad and also I think Leicester stuck it on them also that season, maybe twice? We played the perfect game in the first half really but we didn’t reinvent the wheel by any stretch of the imagination and on reflection the only thing that didn’t make it a near perfect performance was the lack of a killer goal to relieve the pressure on us in the second half. Don't get me wrong there will be other teams who try this approach and fail, but there will be other teams who have the same sort of joy as there has been in the past just not in games of the same magnitude. I just don’t think Pep will get into a final in the next 5 seasons although again I doubt he will remain at City past maybe the end of the next season. I have this feeling he’s got some sort of mental block/problem since 2012 ironically enough. Every time since then, when they go out people seem to question his tactics or approach the majority of the time. He said after we beat Barca over those two legs and went through back then he would analyse his approach and make amendments if necessary or something along those lines after people were questioning how can a team that played that well, with that much of the ball, that many attempts not go through. I seen the highlights v Lyon last season IIRC and Monaco also a few years ago and also thought the same, I mean is he just overthinking things too much? Plus as good as City or Bayern are/were with him, they will never be at the level of that Barcelona team. Nobody will ever ever be in modern football unfortunately.

I dont think Kane will get them over the line. I really don’t. You need more than one player. Its a team thing. Plus, for me, Pep will never get it over the line with City or any other club because he will do what he did against us. He will always have that inclination to do something bold. I don’t know why but he just has this in him. This is why he failed at Bayern in Europe. Too much inclination to tempt fate and try be too smart. Sometimes they were deservedly beat but sometimes he was a huge contributor towards it

I will be honest, for me, I think now Carlo’s had his time at the top level. Not good enough anymore for a big club with the aspersions Real have. If they want instant success/impact, they should go for Conte. Not to say Carlo may not do a good job but at the same time, whilst he will be respected, is he really any different from Zidane? He really just lets folk get on with it. Tbh Zidane leaving just shows his shortcomings as a manager as well for me. They lost Ronaldo a few seasons ago and well he has more or less threw the towel in after getting the likes of Mendy, Hazard, Militao and Rodrygo in 2019. He won the La Liga and the Supacopa last season sure and also only lost to Atletico by a few points for the title this year but they were always playing catch up on top of Atletico stumbling and bumbling along the way towards the end. You’d think with that squad, they’ve still got plenty to offer and they don’t necessarily need a rebuild but just a few wee changes. A top manager would be able to do that.

Tbf if France have a good Euros he has to be in the top 3 at least and surely will win it? Luka Modric won it after having a good world cup for Croatia as well as winning the CL so thats the target for Kante. I dont think it will even be as easy as that though because normally attacking players always seem to be higher voted so we will see. Pretend CL 😂 Lewandowski definitely deserved it last season though, 55 goals in 47 games. Was an incredible season. He will probably be in the running again and deservedly so as he has 48 goals in 40 games this season.

Then it won't happen. Or City will need to pay extra cash up for Laporte not going. Also City getting rid of Laporte would be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen. Even for Kane. Stones has been rejuvenated but he is still vastly inferior to Laporte.

Look at the base of the trophy from the stadium then the one the boys took home. One from presentation (real one) Then watch all the videos from the boys celebrating theres no bit on the bottom with the CL logo (replica). I only noticed the difference between it from seeing this photo and noticing the logo on this and not on the replica.

Be the original and a replica surely? I don’t think they give out the original, or would of thought not bar the trophy lifting presentation no?

Not defending but just to be expected unfortunately 😂

Maybe Nagelsmann was a bad example. But someone else, I don’t know who else it could be but someone who is maybe in the bracket of not a novice coach but someone who isnt exactly a household name. As you said before, guys in the mould of Pochettino, Marco Silva etc. For instance maybe Sarri or someone going in to replace one of these guys Pep or Klopp as unlikely as it would be. Or maybe even the sort of press Villas-Boas got replacing everyone’s favourite Harry Redknapp, which after the media scrutiny he got after his spell here was never going to bode well. Unfortunately whoever came in after Frank was going to get some sort of shit from the media. Be it right or wrong, its to be expected.

I disagree completely. The EL games unfortunately, at that level, for his talent doing well against the likes of Slavia Prague, BATE Borisov, Vidi, PAOK, Malmo, Dynamo Kiev or whoever else isn’t exactly a good barometer... calling him king of the Europa League is laughable because he should of been able to play that level at 25% of his talent easily. He certainly didn’t set the world alight for us in the CL compared to what he did in the big games in the PL, I really don’t know what games you watched. I mean if that level was acceptable for you I don’t know. Look he got 8 goals in 23 CL games for us, 2404 minutes, maybe tells half a story but considering the big players the Ronaldo’s, the Messi’s, the Neymar’s, the Bale’s, the Lewandowski’s, guys who he was close to in terms of their level, got that more or less every CL campaign. So to feel that Eden underachieved in the CL for us is not exactly harsh or untrue. Specially for his talent and then for his records v Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City in the PL and domestic cups.

Well suppose it works for us. We have to finish above them 100% next season.

It isn’t great obviously but this is elite sport and the British media are the British media. And whilst your mentioning xenophobia, there are individuals/sections of the British media that are racist, without a shadow of a doubt and without turning this into politics etc, just look at the reaction to Meghan Markle when she married into royalty.... Some of these articles relating to managers like youve listed, yes, it is close to bordering on xenophobia. For me, it is even more ironic because the English game is widely talked about as the best league in the world. Why is this though? Why is the standards so good? It is only the best league in the world because it is full of the best players and managers which the majority of them are not British. So aye it maybe is unfair but not to expect this sort of approach from the media, lets be real, it won’t change anytime soon, which is unfortunate (outside of sport even more so). If City were to sack Pep/Liverpool to sack Klopp/Leicester to sack Rodgers/Man United to sack Ole it would be the same probably be a lot of scepticism and a lot of disregard or disrespect for whoever came in after. Thats how it is. These guys are well respected managers by the media, I mean imagine if City sacked Pep at the beginning of the season when they had their bad start and say appointed Julian Nagglesmann or someone else for say? They would probably have got the same treatment but for different reasons because of Peps CV and what he’s achieved.

Lets be honest, the criticism of players like Jorginho and Rudiger has been severely over the top 75% of the time. They've played bad games, for sure, like everyone else, but probably looking back at their spells here the majority of their games they have done well enough in or at least better than how some people seem to think about them. Even Jorginho’s first season, the fans booing him v Malmo because he was a Sarri signing is one of the most embarrassing things I have ever felt as a Chelsea fan. The witch hunt for him has still been on this season at times and I am beginning to wonder if there is a large percentage of our fans on social media/places like these who are a bit ungrateful or spoiled perhaps because of players we’ve had before. He's not world class by any stretch but I think the lack of respect/appreciation for him is quite frankly unnerving at times and its obvious that he is one of those players that people will point the finger at him near enough every time without a hesitation. Alonso maybe he has shown he isn’t at the required level to be a mainstay at a top side but hes never let us down when hes played this season either. He probably will be off this summer though, well him or Emerson but ultimately I don’t think he’s been the worst LB/LWB we have had for years. He's probably a more superior player to the likes of Baba Rahmann, Emerson, Yuri Zhirkov and Ryan Bertrand who have tried to replace Ashley/compete with Ashley at the time. He’s not had an amazing career here but his first season he was pretty good and whilst he has glaring weaknesses again I think its sometimes too easy to just point a finger at one guy instead of 11 or 12.

It was always going to be expected and thats why its not exactly unfair to say that it would happen with British press. I mean anyone who thought he would get an easy ride didn't learn anything from the media frenzy and beatdown Villas-Boas got for alienating players who had close ties in the media (which Gary Neville had openly said recently that players were getting in touch with the media regarding him pre Napoli game) as well as after his sacking too. I mean AVB was a different scenario and the reaction was a bit different but ideally thats when I realised anytime we change manager regardless, there will be some sort of negativity before the next guys come in and done anything or huge negativity surrounding the guy who’s left. Its the way of the media. Think about it, Franks a well respected ex footballer, legend at the club and young manager who lost his job after 18 months, did you think the knifes weren’t going to be out and pointed at Tuchel before the Wolves game and therefor after it as well by sections of the British media and pundits? Would of been naive to think other wise. If the season had gone differently, it would be that article x 10000 severe.

Save your FM save and close the game down... No way we sell Werner or Ziyech after 1 season (they will surely have next season to make an improvement which if they dont then they will be up for the chop I would think) or even consider selling CHO and Christian either I wouldn’t think. Abraham will maybe be sold and Girouds contract is up, is it not?

Tbf Eden could have done more in virtually every big European game we played bar a handful. He was great in a lot of the big PL games but in Europe he never done it really which is my only big big criticism of him here as well as wanting to leave two times before leaving. I still remember all the excuses the Belgians were making for him here... he needs a better more attack minded LB, he needs a number 10, he needs to play with a more technical CF than Diego Costa, *insert another daft excuse here*, etc... at Real Madrid he is surrounded by world class/near world class players regardless of their age in virtually every position and he’s only gone and regressed significantly and crumbled under the pressure of the club. Obviously we cannot say its all Edens fault we didn’t do better in Europe with him and ultimately it is a team game but there were definitely moments where he didn’t do anything and the others seem to get the flack, whilst he didnt.

Why aren't United considering him if he's going to be available? Yea hes not a serial title winner but they will never eclipse what they've done with Ole unless they either buy 5 top players which would probably cost between 300-500m or appoint a better coach and get 1 or 2. I have a feeling United will be fighting for 4/5th. Even if they get Kane. No way that little fucker takes them on further than what they’ve done this season which ultimately was still finishing 2nd and winning nothing.

To be honest, I don’t think its exactly an unfair thing to say at the time a lot of people in the media as well as on here were upset and didn’t expect much from Tuchel, more so after the Wolves game especially. Plus half the usual naysayers on here were also gunning for Tuchels head after the Arsenal game and FA cup final so I think in all realism its not exactly harsh compared to some of the drivel that was posted in here by certain individuals *cough* morons *cough*.... As well as this, to be fair to Richards after we beat City twice and in the run up to the CL final as well he had said repeatedly that he was incredibly worried about us beating them, particularly after the Real games I think. And that same night he had also praised Tuchel as well as Mason countless times in several games as well as being someone who has said despite it not feeling right about what Frank had done, that Tuchel had done a good job IIRC or something along those lines. Maybe it was MOTD or on sky as well but I am sure he said and praised us for keeping the number or coean sheets we had with Tuchel. Personally, the worst of it was probably Harry Redknapp saying he didn’t think Tuchel was a top top coach because he had won in France after Gary Neville said we had appointed another one of the best managers in Europe. That was what was down right disrespectful. All the others who maybe had doubts or alliances with Frank changes their tune. I wish they’d interviewed that saggy faced git Redknapp again after last night.

New contract pronto. Was brilliant when he came in for Thiago.