CHOULO19

Or that that school has some issues we don't know about..

I think Kant's opinion on this matter still applies if you admit that objectivity is relative (as self-contradictory as that may sound ). Because any statement, be it opinion or "fact" (I don't like that word ) is relativistic to a time and a group. Just like "the earth is flat and the center of the universe" was a fact 1200 years ago and just like I'm sure some aliens from Andromeda won't find "Kagawa was good at Dortmund" objective! I guess I call Hitler's "philosophy" objective relative to the German society in the 1930's.

Exactly. Roman was forced to hire RDM. Our season was always going to get screwed when the owner doesn't trust the manager.

You're probably right about the second part of the statement but I still think it is fairly objective. We appear to have different definitions of the word objective. It does not mean fact, to me. There are three types of opinions: Faith, subjective opinion, and objective opinion and neither is a fact. An objective opinion is one that has enough reason to get most people to accept it. I refer you to Kant's critique of pure reason.

Not saying it was our board's fault. In fact, I agree with everything in your post. But perhaps we can only say we had to sack him with the gift of hindsight after winning the CL and FA cup. At the moment of sacking him it was still a bit more debatable. That's different. I didn't say he played to the players' strengths (which he should have and that was actually my biggest criticism to him) but that he picked players based on skill and not names. But the problem is RDM was (in my opinion rightly) never considered as a long term solution unlike AVB who had Roman's trust. Once we sacked Boas, we were doomed to go back to the managerial merry-go-round.

Your post actually proves that it is actually an objective observation except that you insist on seeing any kind of praise for Kagawa as criticism for Hazard which made you miss the point that me and Peace were trying to make: Both players have showed they can be very good. We, or at least I, were not trying to say who is better than who (for me it's Hazard) or even that they are on the same level, just that no one is currently miles ahead of the other.

Exactly. We wouldn't have done either of those things had some players not gotten AVB fired because Roman believed his project and philosophy and was willing to give him time and allow him to have a chance to prove that he can be the solution for our managerial stability issues.

I don't know. How is choosing who starts and who doesn't considered bad man-management skills. Of course he made mistakes and was partly responsible for the club's position, but choosing what he thought was the best team and playing people based on their skills not names were not part of those mistakes, in my opinion, at least. If some multimillionaires threw a tantrum for not getting what they want and tried to undermine his work, that is not his fault.

@S3ra, @vendetta17, @ivasca.romica, Hello friends. Opposition fans are always welcomed at TC. I'm glad you decided to join the discussion. Hopefully we'll have a good game on our hands What can you tell us about Steaua's likely formation and style of play?

sarcasm [ˈsɑːkæzəm]n1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult2. the use or tone of such language http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sarcasm

If tomorrow I go to work but refuse to put in any effort because my boss didn't give me the promotion I want and I start trying to sabotage the company, shockingly, I will be the one to get fired and not my boss for having bad man-management skills..

Should be fun, right?!

Actually what he said is that you wouldn't say Hazard is miles ahead if you saw how brilliant Kagawa was at Dortmund which is just an objective observation. I actually wasn't expressing that as my opinion just saying that Peace said it. But I actually agree with him because, in this particular case, it just seems like a case of "my father can beat up your father". I would agree 100% with you if the discussion took any depth in analysis and comparing attributes and abilities but sadly that is not the case atm.

He showed that he was learning while he was still here and the fact that he modified his high-line, which was a big part of his philosophy, is the biggest evidence. I'm just saying that it's laughable to think that he could turn from Grant to Ferguson in 6 months and that the whole "bad man-management skills" issue was just media bullshit.

Well that's your choice and opinion, but because we opted for that short-term gain instead of managerial stability, we won't be challenging for the CL for at least a few seasons. As for Frank, you can twist it all you want, but at the end of the day, if you are a professional who is being paid 150k/wk, the least you could do is give 100% and try your best to make the manager's plans work because that is his job. And if he thinks you should be on the bench then you shut your mouth and sit there and try to change his mind in training. But if you fail to do that and conspire to get the manager fired and compromise the team's whole season just to get more playing time then you are just being an extremely selfish cunt. AVB had been using this "modified" high-line 3 months before he was sacked, specifically from the City home game. "Different caliber" is just another way of saying that Spurs players are actual professionals and not just a bunch of spoiled millionaires. Harry's system was completely different, not to mention he had better squad with Modric and VDV. Again. This only highlights the fact that we need a long-time managerial solution more than anything. Go back and watch our matches against Everton and WBA and you'll see Cole and Frank clearly time-wasting when the team was losing. I can never think of either of them the same after that. I am not saying he is blameless. In fact I'll be the first to criticize his high-line and lack of trust in youth players. But that does not justify how some players acted last season. They are the ones that let the team and fans down.

His whole post was about how childish it is to compare the two and then you go and ask him that?!!

I'll take long term success over short-term gain any day of the week. Our season is ruined yet again because we had to fire the manager. What more proof do you want that we need more than anything, even more than winning a CL, is managerial stability. AVB could and should have been the solution if Lampard and co didn't try to sabotage their own team to get him fired. Fine. Let's change the question: What did AVB do differently at Tottenham. Fine, let's say that we were expected to win the league and CL despite that being as unlikely as Spurs winning them. That doesn't make RDM under more pressure than AVB. The former had just won two cups and was backed by everyone while the latter had been slatted on a daily basis for a few month and had been written off from the first day he took the spurs job. I highly doubt that. If Boas doesn't get a CL spot, he'll have the same fate as Harry. But that is the whole point. AVB is not responsible for some players refusing to play and intentionally not performing to get him sacked just so they don't get replaced.

Our managerial situation only proves more that it was a mistake to sack Boas. Yes, he was inexperienced and 6 months later he is not anymore? AVB hasn't changed, he just have, at Spurs, players that are willing to give 100% and not waste time when the team is losing like Frank and Cole did like against Everton and WBA. And do you think Rafa was expected by the board to win the league?! The expectations both here and at Spurs were to finish in the top four this season. Thanks to AVB. If his team is doing well when others are under performing, then he is currently doing a better job than Mancini, Benitez and Wenger. I'm not ignoring what happened here last year, just saying that it was not all AVB's fault and that he could have done well here if the players didn't selfishly put their interest ahead of the team's and actually tried to give 100%. And why on earth would he accept to come back here?!

After spending more than 80m since he left. That's probably less than what the whole Tottenham squad cost! What's more likely? That AVB turned from absolute shit to great in a few months or that the fault was in our players? Lower expectations? They're above us in the league! He was under immense pressure when he came to Tottenham after the fiasco here last season. Everyone said he would be fired by Jan, he had everything to prove. And Tottenham were doing very well even before Bale hit his current form. We're playing in the same league with a squad that has loads more quality and are sitting behind them in the table.. Yes, you got me. I guess my cover is blown. I am a special agent, hired by AVB himself to destroy Chelsea's image among it's supporters and repair Boas' image. You sound delusional, mate. Why would I want to protect AVB's image? He's managing our top rival this season. I want nothing more than for him to fail. But ignoring facts and pretending that AVB is not proving that he is an excellent manager is not going to help.

Very un-Brazilian in that sense!

In case you haven't noticed, his much weaker team is above us in the table. But of course, it was his "poor man-management skills" to blame for the team's failure last season not the selfishness of our multimillionaires putting their interest ahead of the club's..

That AVB guy seems very good, we should try to get him..

He's playing on the right. Weird.

Game is not over yet. Expect Arsenal to get back in it. EDIT: And while I was writing that Arsenal score!

Starts for Malaga in an hour against Courtois' Athletico.