Tomo

Im starting to view Cahill and Luiz starting together with the same amount of dread that filled me when Bosingwa was on the team sheet. They don't work, both are fine with Terry but as a partnership i haven't seen a worse one in my near 2 decades of supporting this club. To think this partnership was getting compared to the JT and Carvalho one a few months back

Speaking of his final season, look at Barca they were a mess, 3rd in the league, 10 points behind Villareal, nearly 20 behind Real, Deco, Ronaldinho and Eto'o's (Thuram and Zambrotta to lesser extent too) ego's going into overdrive. Pep got rid of 4 of those 5 players, Eto'o only survived due to a change off attitude. Pep made the decision to build his side around Iniesta, Xavi and Messi, something that paid off handsomely, not to mention his decision to promote Busquets and Pedro. Crediting anyone other than Pep for what he done at Barca is like giving Ranieri all the credit for what Mourinho did for us, just because he signed a few off the players.

@Strike, Kalas and Bruma IMO will have the same problem's playing with Cahill and Luiz as the pair have had playing with each other. Signing player like Hummels would cause problems for that same reason. If we are to lesser our reliance on JT we need some one in his mould, a Subotic type.

How many Luiz lovers is there? im probably one off his biggest (as you put it) "lovers" but i still realize he makes mistakes. There are also Luiz haters and some OTT one's at that. Henrique isn't trying to put the blame on Cahill at-all, his points about Gazza have been very valid, but because Cahill is seemingly the latest cannot be criticized player we have no one has seemed to even entertain his (Henrique's) view. Cahill really does have his weaknesses but from reading some of the stuff on here i would think he is the new Ricardo Carvalho. Luiz is not our best defender, but neither is Cahill, Terry is and by a country mile at that, the last few weeks have shown Terry is the player we need to wrap up in cotton wool and keep fit more than anyone, over Mata and even Cech. Oh and i wouldn't laugh at him at United, Luiz looks like Maldini compared to Jones and Rafeal.

I think you have Luiz and Cahill mixed up.

Alex can you remove me and give someone else my team? I have no time to do this anymore. I might re join one day but right now i think it's best if the great team i built is in the hands off someone else, since i won the league i just haven't enjoyed it as much.

Where were you last season? we could have done with you in the Kalou thread.

He might not have promoted Xavi, Iniesta and Messi but he took them up an extra few levels, he made them what they are. Xavi and Iniesta were reguarly on the bench under Rijkaard, including the 2006 CL final when only Iniesta came on. Messi was a young talent under the Dutchman, but it was Pep who made him the worldbeater he is today. Don't get me wrong i want us to stick with RDM, but this myth going around that Pep was an lucky passenger on the Barca train is worse than the myth that Drogba was crap in his first two season's at Chelsea, the guy is genius, period.

With Luiz playing: 62 games, 65 goals conceded, 22 clean sheets Without Luiz playing (since his arrival): 32 games, 40 goals conceded, 7 clean sheets. So with Luiz we keep a clean sheet every 2.8 games and concede 1.04 goals per game where-as without him we keep a clean sheet every 4.5 games and concede 1.25 goals per game. Despite his flaws our defense is clearly better when he plays.

Has to be Terry and Luiz for this one, Luiz is not the sort of player you leave out when chasing a tie (which we are effectively doing given that we could finish level with Donetsk meaning head to head record will come into play). This is practically a second leg tie and the impetus is on us to attack and we need Luiz to start attacks from the back.

The only good thing about this transfer is that Liverpool wasted the money almost immediately. Imagine what a laughing stock we would have been if Liverpool waited until the summer and got Falcao and Cazorla with that cash?

@Bir_CFC, He will always have the Athletico fans to fall back on.

So are most players when it comes to comparing national team form to club form, solely based on International form would Messi and Ronaldo be considered the best two in the world? especially by the considerable distance they are currently.

We have got one, he just sits on the bench.

Still that excuse, he has 3 assist machines behind him and were still blaming lack of service Service works both ways and Torres just isn't doing his bit.

They might have no choice soon enough, a player of that calibre will not accept no CL football for years on end, especially his peak years unless he seriously lacks any sort of ambition. Liverpool have two season's maximum to get Champions League or Suarez will be gone.

Thrash talk at the moment, which is why i put apparently, just wanted to get that punchline at the end out

Apparently we are Pep's dream job now. Pep does have the right mentality, if you can't beat them try and join them.

Torres is a genius. He plays shit for nearly two years yet still has the club pandering to him.

Is that Kenny Dalglish?

Even tho our overall defensive record is better when he plays

Cole injured aswell apparently. So Azpi-Ivan-Cahill-Ryan, a centre half pairing who haven't played with each other before (in that position) and a full back making his full premier league debut. What can possibly go wrong?

So having an opinion is 'picking on them' now is it? As for that Kalou/Torres thing, i said Torres is like Kalou now, will frustrate, frustrate, frustrate, have the odd good moments and the odd goals, which is true, the only reason it looks like im (in your words) "picking" on Torres, while "defending" Kalou is because how highly the Spaniard is rated compared to the Ivorian. I have stated numerous times that Cahill and Luiz are fine one of them with Terry but rubbish as a pair, i haven't blamed either on that, but again the only reason it looks like im "picking on" Cahill while "defending" Luiz is the same as the two above, because of how highly one is rated compared to the other. Just because i think Cahill has been in general over-rated, doesn't mean i don't actually rate him or don't like him. Infact i was one of the very few defending him at the start when he was getting dismissed as a "only a Bolton player" and i had the very same opinion of him them as i do now, a very good squad player. Only now it looks like im "hating" him because of how far the other way he's gone. All im going to say now is if im "picking" on Cahill then some of the stuff said about Luiz, Bosingwa, Malouda, Sturridge and Kalou on these forum's must be classed as online bullying.

Da fuq? Cahill never get's flagged up for any error's. He got away scot free of criticism for the Naples and Monaco disasters while Luiz got it from all angles. I like Cahill and i like the passion he has, but looking back at some comments on here he is so over rated it's untrue.

You have hit the nail on the head "been ok", being ok good enough for a squad player but not a number 1 forward at a club aiming to win trophies.