The English Football Thread

[Vesper 27,315]

11 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Clubs have been told to prepare for a mid-June comeback, which will see players increase their training load from May.

(Reuters)

I cannot see this happening, not with the way the pandemic is rolling

only 2 things will stop it

1 Herd Immunity (and by going into lockdown that is now vastly delayed or will not happen at all, and in fact, the lockdowns guarantee a SECOND wave, what should have happened is the high risk 20% should have instantly locked down completely, and just let it run its course, (with a COMPLETE buildout of all medical healthcare infrastructure from the first week, I mean the ENTIRE resources of the nations turning to that) especially all the schoolchildren and under 30 years olds, as in EVERY epidemic, those are the cohorts who cause herd immunity. Locking down the schools, as I have come to mostly (not quite 100% there yet but close) believe given 2 months of research was quite possibly disastrous. China did not go to lockdown until it was already raging, so quite possibly has achieved or is close to achieving herd immunity. Testing is useless, so is contact tracing as this is airborne, BUT it is so so so so important to do universal ANTIBODY testing, as then we can see how close we are to hern immunity.

2 Vaccine (very late 2020, early 2021 if we are lucky)

 

side note on my last point in point 1

Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89

[Vesper 27,315]

United are backing youth again – after years of complacency and underfunding

https://theathletic.com/1724448/2020/04/06/manchester-united-youth-team/

It’s not just Manchester United’s first team who were stopped in the middle of a promising run when football was suspended. The youth team were days away from playing Chelsea in the semi-finals of the FA Youth Cup. 

This year’s side includes Hannibal Mejbri, signed for £9.3 million at age 16 from Monaco last July. Such is his distinctive mop of hair, the substantial Leeds United following in the fifth round tie at Old Trafford dismissed him as “a shit Sideshow Bob”.

Alongside team-mates Aliou Traore and Noam Emeran, Mejbri is one of three Parisian youngsters scouted by the same man in Goussainville on the outskirts of Paris, close to Charles de Gaulle Airport. United’s Paul Pogba and Anthony Martial — as well as Thierry Henry, Patrice Evra and dozens of other world-class footballers — hail from the same Parisian banlieues.

United are recruiting well. They want the best English players for their first team. Failing that, they want the best players who have played English football all their lives, foreign talents who join at 16 or 17. They have a history of bringing through youngsters and hold the record of 10 FA Youth Cup wins, the first five by the Busby Babes in the 1950s. Ten years after Munich, eight home-grown players helped United become the first English club to win the European Cup.

However, the youth team haven’t won the competition since 2011, when a side starring Pogba, Jesse Lingard and Ravel Morrison defeated a Sheffield United one including Harry Maguire. So this season’s cup run is long overdue.

Liverpool are the holders but Chelsea have been the dominant force, winning the cup seven times in the last decade. Their first team is now benefiting from several players who have come through, from Tammy Abraham and Callum Hudson-Odoi to Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Fikayo Tomori. 

Tomori, Abraham and Mason Mount starred in a 5-1 victory over United’s youth team in 2016, something that would have been unimaginable 20 years previously. Two years later, however, things improved: United, captained by Brandon Williams and led from the front by hat-trick hero Mason Greenwood, inflicted a rare defeat on Chelsea, winning 4-3.

Manchester City have reached the final four times in the last five years and are in the semis again this time. The dominance of City and Chelsea should be unsurprising: the clubs have spent the most on youth football in the last decade. The policy of both is to buy the best players from around the world. United do that too, bringing in 16- and 17-year-olds like Mejbri, but also want to build on a core of local players. 

After decades of success, United became complacent. Their youth system was underfunded, and the focus shifted to the first team. Louis van Gaal needed instant results and knew he wouldn’t be around for longer than three years. Youth development was not the priority to him as it is for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer now. 

Talented coaches were expected to work miracles despite losing out — usually to City — on players. City paid more. They put the siblings of young players into a private school and guaranteed their education until they were 18. United lost good players at 11, 12 and 13 because the club weren’t willing to bend over backwards to meet demands. They thought their reputation was enough. It wasn’t.

United were not happy about City’s conduct. They considered it underhand. In one home match, City separated the opposition’s young players from their coaches and slowly walked them to the dressing room, deliberately letting players see plush play areas. It was almost as if they were saying, “This is what you could have won.” 

“City seemed to forget that we won the treble with the Cliff, which was tiny, as our training ground,” remarked one coach, but City had made progress.

United had their reputation and the well-known fact that young players were given a chance in the first team, but City boasted superior players, more money and a better training ground, which included a 6,000-capacity stadium.

United’s AON Training Complex at Carrington is a great training ground, but it’s not the best and some of United’s youth coaches changed in Portakabins until last year. Not for nothing did Phil Neville, Darren Fletcher and Robin van Persie put their children into City’s system. But Harvey Neville is now at United, having also benefited from three years at Valencia. United’s youth system is looking far better than it did five years ago. 

Though they don’t reveal the figures, United’s investment in youth has increased four-fold since 2015 — when you’re paying almost £10 million for 16-year-olds, it’s easy to see how. Barcelona, for one, baulk at paying such figures to take youngster to La Masia. As a partial consequence, the Barcelona academy is not churning out players for the first team as it did in the previous decade.

United’s youngsters are playing more games than before, and in as many different types of football as possible: the EFL Trophy, extra under-18 tournaments… they’ve even started flying in top-level opponents to play the under-19s, including Hertha Berlin. They plan many more when the impasse is over. 

This isn’t the Busby Babes or the Class of ’92. United’s youth system isn’t complete. There are no full teams yet. All but two of the under-16s were let go before this season: not just because they weren’t considered to be United level, but to be fair to them and give them a better chance of making it elsewhere. But there are youth players who the coaches believe can become first-team regulars for a successful United first team. And in Solskjaer, you have a manager who clearly wants to keep alive United’s long run of games with a homegrown player in the first-team match-day squad.

Solskjaer has a tough job, but he has changed the mood at United. He regularly watches the young teams, as do Michael Carrick and fellow first-team coach Kieran McKenna. Throwing youngsters into a first team low on morale is never ideal, but Solskjaer, who coached the club’s reserves from 2008 to 2011, has helped provoke an upturn in morale. 

When I asked Ed Woodward what United’s vision was this season, the executive chairman said: “Winning, playing attacking football with X-factor players and giving youth a chance. Added to that, we want players to come in who respect their team-mates, the club, the history. They must understand that they are creating a legacy by coming to Manchester United. Nobody is bigger than the club.

“There should be a mixture of humbleness and arrogance. Humble when you are on the team coach and you wear the club suit; you do up your top button and wear your tie; then you sign autographs for 10 minutes for the people who pay your wages. Then, when you go into the dressing room, you put the red shirt on and you feel arrogant, self-assured. As Carrick said in his book, you want to take the ball, you want the ball in tight spaces, you want a never-say-die spirit. 

“Ole has brought a lot of the discipline back. Whatever manager we have has to buy into that philosophy and Ole is a walking, talking version of that. Let’s let this play out with Ole.”

Let’s look first at the under-23s, managed by Stretford lad Neil Wood and assisted by former United midfielder Quinton Fortune. Both have played professionally.

They’re second in the second tier of the reserve league (Premier League 2), three points behind West Ham, but with a game in hand. That they were even relegated shows how bad things became, with United’s reserves often asked to play without a recognised striker. Despite still only being 17, Mejbri, who plays best as a No 10, has played for the under-23s.

“This is what United should be doing, bringing in the best young players not just in England but in the world,” says one coach. “Hannibal has the wow factor, the flair, the X factor, which United players should have.” There are others, too.

Czech goalkeeper Matej Kovar is 19 and rated so highly that one coach thinks he’s ready now for first-team football at the top level. With Dean Henderson and Kieran O’Hara impressing on loan at Sheffield United and Burton Albion respectively, United appear to have a surfeit of goalkeeping talent.

Loan moves are wiser, though with mixed results. Axel Tuanzebe, who has captained United at every age group including the first team, benefited from his 18 months at Aston Villa. The central defender, 22, is still coming out top of the endurance tests in training, but has been unfortunate with injuries this season. Scott McTominay is in the first team, Marcus Rashford, too. Fans are less convinced by Lingard and Andreas Pereira but they are also examples of homegrown talents who made the step up.  

Tahith Chong, 20, has signed a new contract to 2022 and needs to shine when he gets his next first-team chance. Angel Gomes, 19, who captained the under-23s in their last game at Stoke City — where he was marked by Ryan Shawcross, who came through the ranks at Old Trafford — has yet to sign the contract on offer to him.

Midfielder James Garner would benefit from a loan move to help bridge the significant gap from under-23s football to the first team. Garner played in Astana in November with fellow 19-year-old Dylan Levitt, who has a superb passing range. Ethan Laird, 18, has been injured but is a fast, strong right-back. Di’Shon Bernard, 19, is a decent central defender who also played for the first team that night in Kazakhstan.

Dillon Hoogewerf, a 17-year-old who plays as a No 10, scored the goal that knocked Leeds out of the Youth Cup. He signed from Ajax, who were unhappy that the Holland youth international left last year. Better for United to get him at 16 than at 23, when his price would have rocketed. “I want to debut as quickly as possible — Manchester United came up with a good plan and the intention to make my debut at an early age,” the 5ft 4in forward said on his arrival last summer.

Teden Mengi is a 17-year-old Mancunian centre-half. He’s fast, tall and quick, with the right character and calmness to be a top-level pro. He’s captain of the youth team, went to Nicky Butt’s old school Wright Robinson College and grew up playing football on the streets of east Manchester. Butt is now head of first team development, having turned over the academy leadership to Nick Cox. 

There are people in the background at the academy such as Tony Whelan and Dave Bushell who have been there for decades. They know the environment required to create decent young men as well as footballers. 

Charlie Wellens, 17 years old and son of Swindon Town manager and United academy graduate Richie, is a midfielder who has trained with the first team and is promising. Anthony Elanga, a 17-year-old Swedish winger, is fast and very strong. Noam Emeran is another 17-year-old winger — this time from France. He’s confident in beating opponents and has that “wow” factor that United look for. Zidane Iqbal, 16, is a Mancunian attacking midfielder with British and Pakistani citizenship.

Central defender Will Fish, 17, excelled on his debut with the under-23s and the club also expect fans to hear more about Mark Helm, an 18-year-old midfielder from Warrington.

United Under-18s are coached by Neil Ryan, a former non-League player and son of former United player and Sir Alex Ferguson assistant Jim. He’s assisted by legendary non-League goalscorer Colin Little, who is from Wythenshawe and was a hero at Altrincham. These are streetwise Mancunians who have played football all their lives. 

And there are those players who have made the first team while still teenagers: Greenwood and Williams. Those coaches who worked with Williams think there is more to come from him, with his boundless energy and never-say-die attitude. He was never the best player technically, but he would run through brick walls for the youth team, where he played as a central midfielder. He was moved back to defence, but only shifted to left-back because Laird was at right-back.

“He’s done very well, all things considering,” states one coach. “It’s a big jump to go from the under-23s as a 17-year-old to marking Raheem Sterling.” 

Below the 16-year-old youth-team players, Danny Kavanagh is the best of those aged 15. A Mancunian forward who can play across the front line, he has been picked by England in his age group. 

There is much uncertainty in football and the world, but the club’s youth system is in a far better place than it was five years ago.

But will they ever get to play Chelsea in that Youth Cup semi-final? 

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

25 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I cannot see this happening, not with the way the pandemic is rolling

Think they plan to isolate players from the public, then play behind closed doors. Seems the biggest logistical headache they face is stopping fans travelling to those cities where they are playing.

[Vesper 27,315]

PL’s hopes of 30% wage cut dashed after ‘utterly inconclusive’ player meeting

https://theathletic.com/1723756/2020/04/04/premier-league-wages-30-per-cent-pfa/

The Premier League’s hopes of striking a deal to secure 30 per cent wage deductions or deferrals from players were in peril on Saturday night as footballers became increasingly concerned that agreements may benefit club ownerships more than non-playing staff or the emergency services.

At 3pm on Saturday afternoon — an idea conceived by the Premier League’s interim chair Claudia Arney to mirror the traditional kick-off time — the Professional Footballers’ Association (PFA) held a conference call with players from the 20 Premier League clubs, in addition to club and League Managers’ Association (LMA) representatives.

On Friday, it had been announced that Premier League clubs had unanimously agreed to consult their players over striking a deal “regarding a combination of conditional reductions and deferrals amounting to 30 per cent of annual remuneration”.

One senior source present on the call described the talks at “utterly inconclusive” and, on Saturday evening, the PFA released a statement agreed by the 20 Premier League captains. The PFA statement called on Premier League clubs to give more than the £20 million already committed to charities and to increase funding to EFL and non-league clubs. However, players questioned the wisdom of a 30 per cent “salary deduction”. Sources close to the discussions have interpreted the statement as a near-on declaration of war by the PFA, who look as though they intend to fight tooth-and-nail against the clubs. Another source suggested this was the most extreme point of tension between Premier League players and their employers in the 28-year history of the competition.

As tensions simmered, The Athletic can also reveal that one leading club’s board has been informed by players that they will not accept a pay cut — only deferrals — and on the guarantee that all staff members are retained on full pay. Those players are also now discussing a separate squad donation to the National Health Service via their net salaries or through a Professional Footballers’ Association communal pot.

Liverpool’s Jordan Henderson had led a campaign by Premier League captains to make a collective donation to the NHS through the PFA but this is not yet finalised. This rival club’s players are becoming agitated by the delays and keen to help as the death toll rises, so the squad are now discussing a breakaway from the collective plan and fast-tracking the process by pooling money through a deduction to their net salary and sending it through the club as a charitable donation.

Those players do not want the club owners benefiting from their gestures and bosses are now considering the proposals. In addition, some playing representatives want their commercial and media responsibilities reduced if they agree to substantial pay reductions. Some Premier League clubs sent messages to their squads last week informing them they will be required to undertake a range of media commitments to provide rights holders with content in the absence of live football.

Elsewhere, rival clubs were left bemused by Liverpool’s decision to announce the furloughing of more than 200 employees on the day clubs were hoping to persuade players to sign up to deferrals, while there was already exasperation towards Newcastle owner Mike Ashley and Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy over their decision to furlough staff and reduce non-playing wages earlier in the week. Some clubs believe steps taken by their rivals have jeopardised hopes of an across-the-board agreement — something revealed by The Athletic on Monday —  and each club may now need to negotiate with their players on a case-by-case basis.

The situation is further inflamed as many players feel executives have allowed them to become public scapegoats and there is now a fervent public relations war brewing between players and their clubs. The PFA have, in essence, rejected the Premier League proposal for the 30 per cent cuts and deferrals. The PFA are confident they have the backing of playing representatives from all 20 Premier League teams.

The PFA statement read: “The players are mindful that as PAYE employees, the combined tax on their salaries is a significant contribution to funding essential public services — which are especially critical at this time. Taking a thirty per cent salary deduction will cost the Exchequer substantial sums. This would be detrimental to our NHS and government-funded services.

“The proposed 30% salary deduction over a 12-month period equates to over £500m in wage reductions and a loss in tax contributions of over £200m to our government. What effect does this loss of earning to the government mean to the NHS? Was this considered in the Premier League proposal and did the Health Secretary Matt Hancock factor this in when asking players to take a salary cut?”

During Saturday’s voice-call conference, the Premier League made a presentation to prominent dressing room voices from each club. Executives and some managers, including Manchester United’s Ed Woodward and manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, were also on the call. It is understood West Ham’s Mark Noble, Manchester City’s Kevin De Bruyne and Watford’s Troy Deeney were the only players who spoke and it was questioned how wage cuts could be the same across all 20 clubs. Watford will hold talks with their players next week and are hopeful of finding an arrangement by the end of the week.

Premier League players had initially been under the impression that any wage deferrals or reductions they agreed would ensure that clubs were able to fully pay non-playing staff. However, Tottenham proposed wage cuts in addition to placing staff onto the government’s furlough scheme earlier in the week. Bournemouth, Norwich, Newcastle and Liverpool have all followed in putting staff on furlough. The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme sees the government step in to cover 80 per cent of wages for the next two months, capped at a maximum of £2,500 a month. The latter four clubs have committed to topping up the wages to ensure employees continue to receive their full salary. However, Liverpool’s decision, in particular, provoked a public backlash as the club announced a pre-tax profit of £42 million on revenues of £533 million only five weeks ago.

As clubs employ the government’s scheme and call in the taxpayer to cover salaries, players now want to understand where the money they sacrifice will go. The players are determined that any money they do give up should go to non-playing staff at their own clubs or the emergency services, unless the clubs can prove in their accounts that the organisation is under threat without the money. The Athletic has been told to expect more than 10 Premier League sides to resort to the furlough scheme in the coming weeks.

It comes at a time when top-level players are showing genuine concern for the NHS. Jacob and Josh Murphy — contracted to Newcastle and Cardiff respectively — have been working as volunteers in Downham Market in Norfolk for the last two days, delivering Boots prescriptions to the elderly.

Premier League clubs remain adamant that sacrifices must be made amid reduced revenue streams and also against the backdrop of major fears that the 20 sides may yet need to repay £762 million to broadcasters should the season fail to complete. The crunch talks on Saturday came amid certain clubs informing players that they would not be needed for training until at least May. Some leading foreign players have therefore taken the opportunity to return to their families in their own countries, hiring private jets to get home amid commercial travel restrictions. One Premier League club told players this week to treat this period as their offseason for the calendar year 2020. A source said: “This is their break and sorry if that means they can’t have a sunny holiday.”

On Friday, Liverpool’s Henderson — in tandem with the PFA — led division-wide talks with Premier League captains that would see top-flight players make a donation to Britain’s health service.

However, the Premier League’s announcement over potential 30 per cent cuts or deferrals saw the plans put on hold as players sought clarity over their club’s intentions. Some players therefore went cold on the bulk donation idea and Henderson, along with other players such as team-mate James Milner, thought it best to delay any announcement until details are finalised. #

In addition, the idea of collective initiatives is complicated by the fact many players are already engaging in individual donations and schemes, such as Manchester United’s David De Gea making a £270,000 donation to the Spanish health services, while his team-mate Marcus Rashford has led a fundraiser worth in excess of £140,000 for meals for vulnerable children in Manchester. Henderson, along with Milner, wanted the division’s players fully unified before an announcement about the pot of money. There was also said to be frustration among Liverpool players that the club had announced the decision to furlough staff just as their captain Henderson had received public acclaim for attempting to rally support for the NHS.

The prospect of a broad agreement for the 30 per cent wage deferral or cut is further undermined by tensions between the Premier League and the PFA. The players’ union felt the rug was pulled from under their feet when the Premier League announced on Friday that deferrals or cuts could be worth up to 30 per cent of player wages.

Some clubs were also left unimpressed by the progress made in the Premier League meeting on Friday. One source with knowledge of the meeting said: “It was four hours of politically doing the right thing. Two hours of discussion and the two hours of wording the statement. But the Premier League had no agreement with the PFA. The clubs were asking the Premier League, ‘Can you enforce a wage deduction, a deferral?’ They said, ‘No we can’t. That’s down to each individual club. It is also down to each individual player’. That meeting was about the Premier League being able to put a statement out at the end to make them look good: now it’s up to the clubs and players.”

This also came in a week where players felt the public mood had intentionally been turned onto them by the actions of Premier League owners, most notably Tottenham’s Levy. His decision to place non-playing staff on furlough, before agreeing a wage deferral or deduction with players, led to many public attacks on Premier League player’s wages and at a government press conference, health minister Mr Hancock told players “to do their part”. Discussions are expected to resume on Monday.

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Jase 43,479]

On 4/5/2020 at 4:54 AM, Laylabelle said:

Theyve kept quiet about it so far.

Seems like everyone at the club is still getting paid fully.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11969457/coronavirus-manchester-united-choose-not-to-use-government-furlough-scheme-for-staff

All Chelsea players and staff are being paid as normal. Cesar Azpilicueta is involved in talks with other Premier League captains about setting up a fund to help the NHS.

Roman Abramovich is paying for The Millennium Hotel at Stamford Bridge to be used free of charge by NHS staff.

Chelsea's global charity partner Plan International is responding to the effects of Coronavirus around the world. It works in more than 70 countries.

[Laylabelle 9,296]

That's good! And good Liverpool turned things around.. shouldn't suggested it in first place but better then pretending its fine

[Jase 43,479]

Yikes! RIP. 

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

That's good! And good Liverpool turned things around.. shouldn't suggested it in first place but better then pretending its fine

Meh. They only made the u-turn because of the huge backlash. Otherwise, they would have stuck to their decision of taking advantage of the scheme that wasn't mean for them. Embarrassing. 

[Special Juan 27,103]

Fucking horrible club, always the victim and will play that card again.

[Laylabelle 9,296]

22 minutes ago, Jason said:

Meh. They only made the u-turn because of the huge backlash. Otherwise, they would have stuck to their decision of taking advantage of the scheme that wasn't mean for them. Embarrassing. 

True. Probably didn't expect the backlash from the fans or the story to get out there. Wonder if Spurs would do the same.

I just dont get why they thought about it. They're hardly a small business with no income!

[Jase 43,479]

22 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

True. Probably didn't expect the backlash from the fans or the story to get out there. Wonder if Spurs would do the same.

I just dont get why they thought about it. They're hardly a small business with no income!

Liverpool getting praised for making a u-turn on something they should never have done in the first place. They really are the media darlings...

[Laylabelle 9,296]

29 minutes ago, Jason said:

Liverpool getting praised for making a u-turn on something they should never have done in the first place. They really are the media darlings...

Yep! It's well done them...aren't they soooooo amazing. Well no they shouldn't have even thought about it! But nope all hail them they should now be champions again blah blah blah

[Vesper 27,315]

[NikkiCFC 7,582]

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

'They'll almost win it '' Presumably he means they would almost certainly win it.

Fuck me you can see why hes UEFA President -such valuable insight and wisdom. Is he also President of the Bleeding Obvious Society ?

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Laylabelle 9,296]

2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

They only need 2 or 3 wins lol. Stating the obvious just a little there