Kevin de Bruyne

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And is now probably worth at least 3 times that .. DO you actually believe the spin you post ???

WHY didn't you warn the board at the time that you knew at the time that he will be worth 3 times more in a year and a half?! Us mortals with no insight into the future had absolutely no idea that this will happen, so much so that opposition fans were accusing Roman of bribing Wolfsburg under the table to pay that much for him at the time. Really, I blame this whole thing on you....

On a serious note, there is also the small issue that he would have probably not been worth this much because of the completely different circumstances of the two teams. Also that HE wanted to leave at the time.

The mistake wasn't selling him, it was benching him, making him want to leave. In my opinion if you decide as a coach that Willian, Schurrle and Oscar are better players than Mata and KDB you've made a mistake, however you want to spin it.

But coach decisions are not extrapolated from some imaginary place in their minds (certainly not from the future as some are trying to suggest), they are affected mainly by performances. Now compare the performances Mata and KDB last season to Willian, Schurrle and Oscar.

[zolayes 14,489]

WHY didn't you warn the board at the time that you knew at the time that he will be worth 3 times more in a year and a half?! Us mortals with no insight into the future had absolutely no idea that this will happen, so much so that opposition fans were accusing Roman of bribing Wolfsburg under the table to pay that much for him at the time. Really, I blame this whole thing on you....

On a serious note, there is also the small issue that he would have probably not been worth this much because of the completely different circumstances of the two teams. Also that HE wanted to leave at the time.

But coach decisions are not extrapolated from some imaginary place in their minds (certainly not from the future as some are trying to suggest), they are affected mainly by performances. Now compare the performances Mata and KDB last season to Willian, Schurrle and Oscar.

DONT TAKE THE PISS .. I am sure I know more than you though

[Weckerz 3,781]

But coach decisions are not extrapolated from some imaginary place in their minds (certainly not from the future as some are trying to suggest), they are affected mainly by performances. Now compare the performances Mata and KDB last season to Willian, Schurrle and Oscar.

Let's forget Mata for a second.

What performances? His mom performance vs Hull, his game vs United and his 3 appearances in the league cup and CL? Do you want to seriously compare that to players who got to play week in week out? During that time his performances for the NT were abysmal as well, which led to Wilmots telling him he needed to play more, because, surprise surprise, players need to play if you want them to show any kind of form.

There is no logical reason as to why he didn't get to play more after the United game, other than the fact he was bought for peanuts compared to the other stars we overpaid massively for.

It's not hindsight either, not for me anyway, I even got bullied by Henrique for saying KDB was a better player than Oscar. I remember laughing (bitterly) when we sold him, because anyone who had watched him on a regular basis for Genk, Bremen and the NT knew his quality. Mourinho should have seen it too.

[zolayes 14,489]

Let's forget Mata for a second.

What performances? His mom performance vs Hull, his game vs United and his 3 appearances in the league cup and CL? Do you want to seriously compare that to players who got to play week in week out? During that time his performances for the NT were abysmal as well, which led to Wilmots telling him he needed to play more, because, surprise surprise, players need to play if you want them to show any kind of form.

There is no logical reason as to why he didn't get to play more after the United game, other than the fact he was bought for peanuts compared to the other stars we overpaid massively for.

It's not hindsight either, not for me anyway, I even got bullied by Henrique for saying KDB was a better player than Oscar. I remember laughing (bitterly) when we sold him, because anyone who had watched him on a regular basis for Genk, Bremen and the NT knew his quality. Mourinho should have seen it too.

THIS .. When I first saw him before he came to us what impressed me so much was his crossing ans dead ball delivery . I felt that

in that aspect alone he was up with Beckham . I saw him at first as the answer to our RW problem that we have had since Duff and Robben left .

He is however a much more complete player than that and I shall continue to enjoy watching him ,, sadly not for my team

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Let's forget Mata for a second.

What performances? His mom performance vs Hull, his game vs United and his 3 appearances in the league cup? Do you want to seriously compare that to players who got to play week in week out? During that time his performances for the NT were abysmal as well, which led to Wilmots telling him he needed to play more, because, surprise surprise, players need to play if you want them to show any kind of form.

There is no logical reason as to why he didn't get to play more after the United game, other than the fact he was bought for peanuts compared to the other stars we overpaid massively for.

It's not hindsight either, not for me anyway, I even got bullied by Henrique for saying KDB was a better player than Oscar. I remember laughing (bitterly) when we sold him, because anyone who had watched him on a regular basis for Genk, Bremen and the NT knew his quality. Mourinho should have seen it too.

Well he was our worst player against United and others came in the following game and did well so they kept their place and it was 4-5 matches till he got anther chance in the league cup against Swindon where he was pretty shocking which meant he was out of the side till the next league cup match against Arsenal where he was better but still not good. He got a couple of sub appearances in the CL after that till the third league cup match against Sunderland which he again failed to convince in. And then he asked to leave.

Now I know that it's less likely for someone who has not been in the side to just turn up and perform, and as I said I blame Jose for not giving him more sub appearances and for not giving him more chances centrally, but there were also the other 4 players that were competing for the same 2 spots and it would have been unfair for Kevin to get an extensive run ahead of them when they were performing better.

I distinctly remember you writing that Jose is right not to start him after his league performances and that his sale was a very good deal.

[Weckerz 3,781]

Well he was our worst player against United and others came in the following game and did well so they kept their place and it was 4-5 matches till he got anther chance in the league cup against Swindon where he was pretty shocking which meant he was out of the side till the next league cup match against Arsenal where he was better but still not good. He got a couple of sub appearances in the CL after that till the third league cup match against Sunderland which he again failed to convince in. And then he asked to leave.

Now I know that it's less likely for someone who has not been in the side to just turn up and perform, and as I said I blame Jose for not giving him more sub appearances and for not giving him more chances centrally, but there were also the other 4 players that were competing for the same 2 spots and it would have been unfair for Kevin to get an extensive run ahead of them when they were performing better.

I distinctly remember you writing that Jose is right not to start him after his league performances and that his sale was a very good deal.

Those are all fair points that I'm not disputing. Still, being our best player in pre-season and Motm in his first game; I think it was ridiculously unfair to be dropped 5 games in a row after his first real bad game for us, which must have had a massive impact on his mental state.

As for me writing that, I can't remember in what context I said that. I was probably frustrated he wasn't able to convince when he finally got a chance. The sale WAS a very good deal at the time, for him and for us(financially).

[LondonsFinest 692]

People take gambles. Nobody was/is denying his quality. But as we so easily see, Mourinho favours hard - workers on the training ground and pitch. Oscar was deliviring on both at that time. He took a gamble on Oscar, rather than KDB. 2 years later, when nobody back then knew what would happen, we all would take the swap. But back then, I don't remember people that didn't want the three times offer, for which we sold him? I don't remember people moaning about it. Nobody was expecting it. Prime examples of risks are Lukaku and De Bruyne. Both were huge hits on their loan deals. Got back, didn't impress, moaned for a starting spot. As a manager, you have to keep the dressing room together. Make them a unit, rather than split them as individuals, and Jose knows that perfectly well. Hence why, he gambled on Oscar. Let me get back to Lukaku and KDB, doe. Both decided, it was better to be a star in a "smaller" team, rather than prove they are world class at Chelsea. And while one is impressing, the other isnt. It would have been the same situation if Lukaku had 19 goals, and there would have been posts like: He would have banged twice the amount here, why did we have to buy Costa. Fact is, nobody can forsee what will happen. He may very well go to Bayern and be the next forecoming of Christ, or just be challenged by the vass amount of talent, moan again, and go back to VFW. You never know. And that is the beauty and shit of football, at the same damn time. Get over it. United have done same things with Pogba, Real with so many players, Barca with Fabregas and others. It was a gamble. It may work, it may not. In the first part of the season, it did, now it doesn't. You forget we are Chelsea fans first, and individuality fans second.

[Tomo 21,681]

The mistake wasn't selling him, it was benching him, making him want to leave. In my opinion if you decide as a coach that Willian, Schurrle and Oscar are better players than Mata and KDB you've made a mistake, however you want to spin it.

Mata KDB and Cesc in the same team would have seen us beat by any decent balanced side with a tactical astute manager (ie look at what Leti have done to Madrid).

[Tomo 21,681]

Erm giving him 5-10 starts in a role to impress as a start. Obviously at the time no one was against it because Oscar was in good form, scoring goals. Now with hindsight obviously everyone regret that, maybe apart from stubborn Jose who won't admit it.

By learning from it I mean we should give players a run of starts before binning him. Schurrle for example was justified because he had his chances but didn't show enough consistently, even if he scores like 20 goals next season doubt anyone will regret it. Salah on another hand if he bangs in another 10 goals and Fiorentina buy him for 18m clause in the summer it looks like another mistake, he NEVER HAD a run of games to prove himself.

Oscar for example if he is sold now and impress at his new club no one will complain, everyone will know it just hasn't worked out completely for him at Chelsea. Moral of the story is just give the players a chance to impress by allowing him at least like 700-1000 mins not 10 mins every 2 matches at the end of them where we are in the bus parking mode.

Harry Kane never got a run of games to prove himself until he ummm well made the most of his limited chances to earn a place in the team.

[Tomo 21,681]

I couldn't disagree with you more.

1. Zouma & Dave are defenders. Not a bad word about that, but you can't compare "supporting players" like that with playmakers.

2. Please don't mention Salah & KDB in the same comparison, it's an insult to KDB.

3. KDB hasn't had chances. Two appearances in the league cup doesn't count as a chance, it's another insult.

Just accept that we, Chelsea, Mourinho, whomever, f**ked up in KDB's case. It happens sometimes, you can't get it right every time, but you do need to be able to admit it.

Salah totally different story, not half the quality of KDB, couldn't care less about him leaving the team, even if it's true he didn't get a fair chance either, but that's the wat it goes at the top.

1. They were given next to no chances to play, but made the most of the limited chances, in a competitive squad that is sometimes what you have to do, if you want me to compare KDB situation to an attacker in a similar pickle then read on to point 3.

2. Im not saying Salah is as good as him, just that the situation in the squad that both found themselves in was similar.

3. Harry Kane wasn't getting many chances but took what small chances he was getting and we know what has happened since.

Him moving on was right for all parties involved, yes I know he might break the Bundesliga assist record but Cesc might do likewise in the prem yet Barca didn't make mistake letting him go.

Im happy he is doing well, but am I losing much sleep over him while we sit with a great chance of our first league title in 5 years? sorry but im not.

We've got better, he's got better.

[LukakutoStamford 779]

Good fucking lord there are some daft cunts in this thread. If you look back in this thread you can read my posts which heavily criticized selling DeBruyne and that he would be at one of the top clubs in 2-3 years.

De Bruyne was better than Mata, Oscar etc when he got here and he's well beyond any of them right now and he'll continue to be.

I have no clue why people cannot just admit that it was a mistake.

[LAM09 6,547]

Good fucking lord there are some daft cunts in this thread. If you look back in this thread you can read my posts which heavily criticized selling DeBruyne and that he would be at one of the top clubs in 2-3 years.

De Bruyne was better than Mata, Oscar etc when he got here and he's well beyond any of them right now and he'll continue to be.

I have no clue why people cannot just admit that it was a mistake.

If you don't defend, your days will be numbered.

[Tomo 21,681]

Good fucking lord there are some daft cunts in this thread. If you look back in this thread you can read my posts which heavily criticized selling DeBruyne and that he would be at one of the top clubs in 2-3 years.

De Bruyne was better than Mata, Oscar etc when he got here and he's well beyond any of them right now and he'll continue to be.

I have no clue why people cannot just admit that it was a mistake.

Looking at it in an individual perspective then yes of course massive mistake, infact there are similarities between KDB and Cesc, both didn't really fit with the style the club were trying to build, both got moved on for relitevely cheap prices and have been a revelation at their new clubs but at the same time the club's they left behind have also been on the up aswell. Any annoyance I may have about KDB is largely overwhelmed by how happy I am about the progress this club is making, but I guess im old school, it's not like we sold him while playing Kalou and post double Malouda, we sold him because we struggled to fit him in a team being built around arguably the 3rd best player in the world.

I can't pretend I look at Barca forums but I can't imagine many of them have the type of overreaction this thread does every time Cesc scores or assists.

[Tomo 21,681]

If you don't defend, your days will be numbered.

The importance of team balance gets higher every year, even Brendan Rodgers is starting to smell the coffee.

[DDA 9,570]

If i could be bothered I would go back through this thread to the period when we had KdB in our squad. It was then that I said he had the potential to become the best player at Chelsea and everybody bar the Belgium lads laughed at such a claim. Though if I was to drag up these posts that I had written, what would that bring me as a poster of this forum??

It feels as if a lot of posters on this forum now just argue about the most pathetic crap to feel like they know best!

Stop focusing on the negitives and remember that we still have players like Hazard in our team who has just signed a 5 year deal!

[mikeholiday 209]

De Bruyne was better than Mata, Oscar etc when he got here and he's well beyond any of them right now and he'll continue to be.

flawless logic

[LAM09 6,547]

The importance of team balance gets higher every year, even Brendan Rodgers is starting to smell the coffee.

Possibly, but it will come back to haunt you against the best more often than not.

[ParNolio7 285]

there's no case as to whether we are better than Wolfsburg or not. We are!

I share & appreciate your enthusiasm, mate, but second in the Bundesliga, that's not half bad & eliminating Inter Milan the way they did.. I wouldn't think we're THAT superior to them. In any case not enough to say it's a different thing for KDB to do it at "a club like Wolfsburg" rather than a "top team like Chelsea". The leagues are at least equally good, if not superior the BDL, and there's not much between the two teams.