Why our winning days are gone

[Henrique 9,133]

I'd disagree.. Do you have proof of that?

Of course not, who knows whats in Terry's mind. The fact is that when the media was reporting the news about the Manchester offer, many days passed and Terry did not said that he was going to stay here forever and no money could put him in another club. Mark Hughes said one time "If Terry did not sayd anything at the moment, maybe its because hes thinking about our offer".

So he got a pay rise, become the highest paid football player in England, and after weeks of speculation he said said leaving 'was never a possibility'. He also said that Chelsea's ambition and Carlo Ancelotti were among his key reasons for staying.

Thats what I think about that soap opera, but I understand that some people dont agree. There was an article on cfcnet.co.uk during that period called "JT isnt leaving Chelsea, He is Chelsea"...thats made me think how some people put players and clubs at same level, but im not up to this kind of blind idolatry.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Of course not, who knows whats in Terry mind. The fact is that when the media was reporting the news about the Manchester offer, many days passed and Terry did not said that he was going to stay here forever and no money could put he in another club. Mark Hughes said one time "If Terry did not say anything at the moment, maybe its because he's thinking about our offer".

So he got a pay rise, become the highest paid football player in England, and after weeks of speculation he said said leaving 'was never a possibility'. He also said that Chelsea's ambition and Carlo Ancelotti among his key reasons for staying.

Thats what I think about that soap opera, but I understand that some people dont agree. There was an article on cfcnet.co.uk during that period called "JT isnt leaving Chelsea, He is Chelsea"...thats made me think how some people put players and clubs at same level, but im not up to this kind of blind idolatry.

Hmm.. I'd still disagree with you. While perhaps it's true we gave him a pay rise, I'm sure that wasn't his sole reason for staying. He's a Chelsea boy, raised through the ranks and shining at the club, a clone of what Maldini meant to AC Milan. The pay rise would've been Chelsea way of saying "we want you to stay" but Terry's response was probably that's the commitment he wanted the club to show, respect perhaps?

At the time of the City speculation I think Terry was regarded one of the best central defenders in the game so obviously Chelsea realised, money does corrupt even the purest of men but I really have no doubt he would've stayed anyway.

[Henrique 9,133]

Hmm.. I'd still disagree with you. While perhaps it's true we gave him a pay rise, I'm sure that wasn't his sole reason for staying. He's a Chelsea boy, raised through the ranks and shining at the club, a clone of what Maldini meant to AC Milan. The pay rise would've been Chelsea way of saying "we want you to stay" but Terry's response was probably that's the commitment he wanted the club to show, respect perhaps?

At the time of the City speculation I think Terry was regarded one of the best central defenders in the game so obviously Chelsea realised, money does corrupt even the purest of men but I really have no doubt he would've stayed anyway.

Football is about money, maybe not for the supporters, but for players, coachs, empresarios and owners, it really is. Thats why in football even respect means money...

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Football is about money, maybe not for the supporters, but for players, coachs, empresarios and owners, it really is. Thats why in football even respect means money...

I can see why you think that, football is more business than sport these days. Call me naive maybe, but I still maintain there are players in big clubs who are there for the passion of the game, yes they enjoy the financial benefits but they love the sport more. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Joe Cole*.. to name a few, play for the game (in my eyes).

*before anyone argues with me about Joe Cole, we should remember a) He moved because Chelsea said they ceased contract negotiations and he'd been released & He went Liverpool, hardly after the money, he was guaranteed game time there!

[Kostas 1,468]

He is Chelsea"...thats made me think how some people put players and clubs at same level, but im not up to this kind of blind idolatry.

I'm usually of the same opinion but when it comes to JT I'm as blind as person can get.

Due to their slightly romantic nature fans will never get contract negotiations but I wouldn't be so hasty to put Rooney's treatment toward ManUtd and JT's to us in the same category.

[Laylabelle 9,351]

*before anyone argues with me about Joe Cole, we should remember a) He moved because Chelsea said they ceased contract negotiations and he'd been released & He went Liverpool, hardly after the money, he was guaranteed game time there!

That worked out well god knows how many games he played the whole 90 for

[zolayes 14,489]

Of course not, who knows whats in Terry's mind. The fact is that when the media was reporting the news about the Manchester offer, many days passed and Terry did not said that he was going to stay here forever and no money could put him in another club. Mark Hughes said one time "If Terry did not sayd anything at the moment, maybe its because hes thinking about our offer".

So he got a pay rise, become the highest paid football player in England, and after weeks of speculation he said said leaving 'was never a possibility'. He also said that Chelsea's ambition and Carlo Ancelotti were among his key reasons for staying.

Thats what I think about that soap opera, but I understand that some people dont agree. There was an article on cfcnet.co.uk during that period called "JT isnt leaving Chelsea, He is Chelsea"...thats made me think how some people put players and clubs at same level, but im not up to this kind of blind idolatry.

I think you will find Terry ISNT the highest paid player in England ..at least two Man City players are on 50000 a week more ...and that

was also what they were offering him ...seems he took a £3 million pay cut to stay at Chelsea

[Fulham Broadway 16,843]

This Henrique fella -is he Chelsea or an agent provocateur ?

OK under investment is what I see as the problem. Abramovich, like the government is trying to get the same results on the cheap. The 'youth' havent responded and been the calibre as we would have liked or indeed required.

It is unfortunate that Benayoun is injured -along with the ' spine' being out ( -JT and Lampard) and the banishing of Ray Wilkins. The injuries(and thank fuck Cechs wasnt worse) have highlighted the frailties and shallowness of the squad. I dont know whether Abramovich has been splashing the cash on FIFA officials, or wants his Chelsea child to walk unaided now. Could be a bit of both.

Whatever the reasons i hope this is a blip we are going through -form is temporary etc- and we can turn it around against the Yids, Arsenal and Yernited.Unless there is a steadying of nerves within the starting 11 against the yids and a result to match, Gareth Bale is going to have the time of his life, and the two redscum teams will be very confident.

[Madmax 9,219]

Forget everything else, the difference is the quality of backup available. While last season we had the likes of Riccy and Ballack as cover, this season we've got just the academy guys to fall back upon. Couple that with the injuries to key players and the lack of strength in depth has been brutally exposed. I'll hold my hand up and say that at the beginning of the season I didn't think our squad was weak. Small yes, weak no. I still maintain that. But though the injuries to JT, Alex, Lamps, Drog could not have been predicted, their blow could have been softened by signing cheap but effective backup. But here is where the second problem comes in - Roman's lack of desire to spend. Now I'm not going to moan about that - first we were crying out for youth, now that we've got youth we want him to splash money. Now I don't know about others but I'll be here even if we don't win shit for the next 5 years, but I want to see Carlo trusting the academy players more. Drop Drog who it's clear is not fit. Drop Anelka who's too used to getting on the team regardless of how he plays. The youngsters deserve a chance - and let's face it, at this moment they couldn't do any worse than what the regulars are doing.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Forget everything else, the difference is the quality of backup available. While last season we had the likes of Riccy and Ballack as cover, this season we've got just the academy guys to fall back upon. Couple that with the injuries to key players and the lack of strength in depth has been brutally exposed. I'll hold my hand up and say that at the beginning of the season I didn't think our squad was weak. Small yes, weak no. I still maintain that. But though the injuries to JT, Alex, Lamps, Drog could not have been predicted, their blow could have been softened by signing cheap but effective backup. But here is where the second problem comes in - Roman's lack of desire to spend. Now I'm not going to moan about that - first we were crying out for youth, now that we've got youth we want him to splash money. Now I don't know about others but I'll be here even if we don't win shit for the next 5 years, but I want to see Carlo trusting the academy players more. Drop Drog who it's clear is not fit. Drop Anelka who's too used to getting on the team regardless of how he plays. The youngsters deserve a chance - and let's face it, at this moment they couldn't do any worse than what the regulars are doing.

I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. Everyone is here through think-and-thin.

The problem with our youth system is 2 things I believe.. 1) Scouts and 2) Lack of attraction. Let's be honest, if you're an 18-year old football prodigy if Chelsea or Arsenal or even Man Utd came up to you with a contract, you're more likely to sign for Arsenal/Man Utd. Why? Because they've proven they'll give their youths chances to be successful in the first team. They look at Chelsea and what do they see? 1 academy player in the squad right now. And with the expenditure our club has on players there's always the element, you'll be replaced by someone who becomes popular. Reforms with youth coming into our system can only be a long term thing, which is why right now, I know we can't expect much.

The scouts is another issue. Why is it Arsenal managed to find players like Fabregas, Van Persie, Nasri and even Henry when they were relatively unknown? Why did Manchester United manage to find Cristiano Ronaldo, recognise the potential of Wayne Rooney et al and lure them to ManUtd? Because their scouts did their homework and found the best rising stars in the world. We found players like Drogba, Malouda, Anelka and co when they were nearly 25-27 and for 5 season we managed to coast. But now the decline is beginning and we don't have many stars ready to step up

The one thing I do love about our youth is, we have an abundance of English talent who look like, one day, they will make it onto the big stage. Albeit it may not be us (example, possibly, Carlton Cole, Scott Sinclair, ect). Arsenal recruit only French and ManUtd recruit anything BUT English now.

[Madmax 9,219]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. Everyone is here through think-and-thin.

What I mean to say was : a lot of people abandon clubs when they don't win, and I won't be doing that. I see our potential and the upcoming couple of years look like ones of transition for us. Wasn't pointing out anyone on the forum. But you know as well as me that some of our 'fans' won't be here if he have a trophyless spell. It's true of any big club.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

What I mean to say was : a lot of people abandon clubs when they don't win, and I won't be doing that. I see our potential and the upcoming couple of years look like ones of transition for us. Wasn't pointing out anyone on the forum. But you know as well as me that some of our 'fans' won't be here if he have a trophyless spell. It's true of any big club.

Nono don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're pointing anyone out. I'm just saying lol

[Kostas 1,468]

The problem with our youth system is 2 things I believe..

I disagree with that view because we haven't even seen enough of the kids to judge if they're good enough or not. As far as I'm concerned Kakuta is every bit as talented as Van Persie and Nasri were.

The main issue with our youth at the moment is that Ancelotti doesn't trust them at all. Even when we were cruising he'd rather play Salomon Kalou that Sturridge and rarely played him centrally. And don't get me started about Bruma or Kakuta..

However knowing our current form I can partly understand his reluctance to using the kids because if we lose with our first team people will blame either our scapegoats (Ramires) or our regular players for not showing enough heart. On the other hand, if we lose playing the kids Carlo will be blamed for taking such a risk.

[boshman 1,073]

To be honest i have seen it coming for a while. Ever since the 2nd half against Zilina away. We were awful to be honest. Lack of rhythm, lack of pace, lack of the basic ability to pass the ball. Then came the City game where we didn't play well, Villa wasn't brilliant. Then Arsenal, ok we won but in my opinion Arsenal were the better team but just were typical Arsenal who can't do anything once they get to the 18 yeard box. I can keep listing them. Marseille at home, Wolves wasn't brilliant, Blackburn away we were very lucky. I have been saying for a while now we are not as good as we say we are and am not at all surprised we are in the situation we are in.

[Henrique 9,133]

To be honest i have seen it coming for a while. Ever since the 2nd half against Zilina away. We were awful to be honest. Lack of rhythm, lack of pace, lack of the basic ability to pass the ball. Then came the City game where we didn't play well, Villa wasn't brilliant. Then Arsenal, ok we won but in my opinion Arsenal were the better team but just were typical Arsenal who can't do anything once they get to the 18 yeard box. I can keep listing them. Marseille at home, Wolves wasn't brilliant, Blackburn away we were very lucky. I have been saying for a while now we are not as good as we say we are and am not at all surprised we are in the situation we are in.

Same here. We only played nice football in the first games of the season. When we lost 3-0 at home against Sunderland, there was something really wrong. Was when I just realized that Carlo´s work was a recipe for disaster. Saying that he was doing a bad job at that time seemed a really stupid idea for some guys, now its not anymore.

He is not the only problem, but has BIG part on it. Like Scolari he just dont have a B Plan. He always use the old 4-3-3. Its not about the 4-3-3, but how you use it. The main players in this squem are Drogba and Lampard, if you dont have one and the other one is playing awful you have to try something else. What Carlo does ? He asks Yuri Zhirkov to play in Lampard position, or Ramires to play in the position that in the past was made by Essien or Ballack. Zhirkov is not the kind of player Lampard is, and Ramires dont play in same way Essien or Ballack. His game is not about power.

Same to yougsters. Kakuta played like Ali Dia, but maybe hes not playing in his best positions. Kakuta is not Anelka, so if you use the kid you have to use another strategy. Maybe the 4-3-3, but in a diferent way. Everybody here can say whats going to be the line-up against Spurs, and if we are winning Carlo will use Ramires and Ferreira, replacing Anelka and Bosingwa. If we are losing he will use Kalou/Sturridge replacing Mikel/Ramires, and we will go into a weird 4-2-4. Everybody knows how we will play, we are fucking predictable.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Same here. We only played nice football in the first games of the season. When we lost 3-0 at home against Sunderland, there was something really wrong. Was when I just realized that Carlo´s work was a recipe for disaster. Saying that he was doing a bad job at that time seemed a really stupid idea for some guys, now its not anymore.

He is not the only problem, but has BIG part on it. Like Scolari he just dont have a B Plan. He always use the old 4-3-3. Its not about the 4-3-3, but how you use it. The main players in this squem are Drogba and Lampard, if you dont have one and the other one is playing awful you have to try something else. What Carlo does ? He asks Yuri Zhirkov to play in Lampard position, or Ramires to play in the position that in the past was made by Essien or Ballack. Zhirkov is not the kind of player Lampard is, and Ramires dont play in same way Essien or Ballack. His game is not about power.

Same to yougsters. Kakuta played like Ali Dia, but maybe hes not playing in his best positions. Kakuta is not Anelka, so if you use the kid you have to use another strategy. Maybe the 4-3-3, but in a diferent way. Everybody here can say whats going to be the line-up against Spurs, and if we are winning Carlo will use Ramires and Ferreira, replacing Anelka and Bosingwa. If we are losing he will use Kalou/Sturridge replacing Mikel/Ramires, and we will go into a weird 4-2-4. Everybody knows how we will play, we are fucking predictable.

Which is why I want 4-5-1

Cech

Bosingwa - Ivanovic - Terry - Cole

Mikel

Malouda - Essien - Lampard - Zhirkov

Kalou

Yes I did say Kalou. Let's face it, he owned Drogba last night. We lack a decent striker now. From "best striker in the world" Drogba, to "can't give a shit" Drogba..

[Henrique 9,133]

Which is why I want 4-5-1

Cech

Bosingwa - Ivanovic - Terry - Cole

Mikel

Malouda - Essien - Lampard - Zhirkov

Kalou

Yes I did say Kalou. Let's face it, he owned Drogba last night. We lack a decent striker now. From "best striker in the world" Drogba, to "can't give a shit" Drogba..

I think this line-up is better than the Calos boring 4-3-3

[Peace. 4,352]

Which is why I want 4-5-1

Cech

Bosingwa - Ivanovic - Terry - Cole

Mikel

Malouda - Essien - Lampard - Zhirkov

Kalou

Yes I did say Kalou. Let's face it, he owned Drogba last night. We lack a decent striker now. From "best striker in the world" Drogba, to "can't give a shit" Drogba..

I'm agreed with you here. Kalou is Kalou (lol), but at the moment you don't need to be a killer to be stronger than Drogba... And I'm agreed to say Kalou is better than Drogba right now. Futhermore, Drogba doesn't deserve to start any game for a while if you ask me. Yesterday he was more interessed about the standing ovation than about the club which pays him...And at least Kalou move his ass xD