🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Nathaniel Chalobah

[themightyblue 443]

Every time I've seen him play on tv, it's looked easy for him. Guys like him need to be pushed and if Zola can't coach him to stop dawdling on the ball then maybe he needs to be around better influences.

The only way we're going to know if he can make it as this club is by giving him a shot and I think he'll simply do what he's always done, and step-up.

Yeah which is why I said we should see how he does in Pre-season before passing judgement on who he's should replace or displace in our team. Could be like Wilshere who fitted instantly, or Cleverley who needed a few more loans

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yeah which is why I said we should see how he does in Pre-season before passing judgement on who he's should replace or displace in our team. Could be like Wilshere who fitted instantly, or Cleverley who needed a few more loans

He's definitely better than Cleverley was (and is, and could ever hope to be) and close to Wilshere in terms of ability but he doesn't have to do as much as Wilshere does in the Arsenal team. He has the ability to hit 40 yard passes or even take players on but he can always keep it small and simple.

The key point for me is that we already have players who make mistakes in that position. Mikel dawdles on the ball and gets caught out an alarming amount whilst Ramires struggles with his passing in games where teams put pressure on him. It's not like we're asking him to come in and be the new Messiah. He isn't replacing Makelele or Ballack or Essien in the team.

[themightyblue 443]

He's definitely better than Cleverley was (and is, and could ever hope to be) and close to Wilshere in terms of ability but he doesn't have to do as much as Wilshere does in the Arsenal team. He has the ability to hit 40 yard passes or even take players on but he can always keep it small and simple.

The key point for me is that we already have players who make mistakes in that position. Mikel dawdles on the ball and gets caught out an alarming amount whilst Ramires struggles with his passing in games where teams put pressure on him. It's not like we're asking him to come in and be the new Messiah. He isn't replacing Makelele or Ballack or Essien in the team.

But then Chalobah also makes mistakes in that position, and we'll probably sign a new CM too.

[The only place to be 11,313]

But then Chalobah also makes mistakes in that position, and we'll probably sign a new CM too.

The difference being that he's 18 and learning from every mistake, and not 25/26 and making the same ones over and over.

[themightyblue 443]

The difference being that he's 18 and learning from every mistake, and not 25/26 and making the same ones over and over.

Another difference being that those players have performed against the best players in the world, have played a big part in winning trophies for us and are currently better players.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Another difference being that those players have performed against the best players in the world, have played a big part in winning trophies for us and are currently better players.

They've also fucked up or disappeared against big teams. They may be better but not significantly in my opinion and certain not for much longer.

[themightyblue 443]

They've also fucked up or disappeared against big teams. They may be better but not significantly in my opinion and certain not for much longer.

Every player in the world does that. Ronaldo did that against Barca on numerous times. Where was Schweinsteiger in the CL final? Where was Van Persie in both legs against Madrid? The fact is they may have bad games from time to time, but every player does. There contribution playing against some of Europe's best and the PL's best has been immense and is why they've been handed new contracts. I don't think you realise the difference in quality between the Championship and Premiership. Put Mikel in the Championship and he'd look outstanding (Just like he did at the AFCON) same with Ramires. Obviously it's your opinion, but I do think you overrate Chalobah a bit. Undoubtedly talented, but he's got a long way to go

[Leif 6,006]

He's always played above his age group at both youth level and U21 etc. with the national team. I don't see why he can't do the same with senior club football at Chelsea.

[themightyblue 443]

He's always played above his age group at both youth level and U21 etc. with the national team. I don't see why he can't do the same with senior club football at Chelsea.

Huge difference in quality and pressure once again. And i'm not saying he can't, it's just far too early to be making a judgement considering he's only played 1 full season in competitive football. The expectation on some of our youngsters is often why we as fans are left disappointed. We have to see what Chalobah can do playing against the very best before saying he's better than 'so and so' as ultimately the level of quality they are playing against is on a completely different scale

[Leif 6,006]

Who knows. For all we know, we'll sign Mourinho, then viola - Chalobah is our Varane - only playing in midfield instead. Or defence. We'll see. No one can determine whether he is ready or not. I respect both opinions. I personally feel that he is ready to be thrown into the deep-end, but at the same time, I'd much rather see him loaned out for another season so I can get excited while tracking his progress over 30 or so games.

[themightyblue 443]

Who knows. For all we know, we'll sign Mourinho, then viola - Chalobah is our Varane - only playing in midfield instead. Or defence. We'll see. No one can determine whether he is ready or not. I respect both opinions. I personally feel that he is ready to be thrown into the deep-end, but at the same time, I'd much rather see him loaned out for another season so I can get excited while tracking his progress over 30 or so games.

Completely agree

[The only place to be 11,313]

Every player in the world does that. Ronaldo did that against Barca on numerous times. Where was Schweinsteiger in the CL final? Where was Van Persie in both legs against Madrid? The fact is they may have bad games from time to time, but every player does. There contribution playing against some of Europe's best and the PL's best has been immense and is why they've been handed new contracts. I don't think you realise the difference in quality between the Championship and Premiership. Put Mikel in the Championship and he'd look outstanding (Just like he did at the AFCON) same with Ramires. Obviously it's your opinion, but I do think you overrate Chalobah a bit. Undoubtedly talented, but he's got a long way to go

Mikel and Ramires aren't Schweinsteiger or Ronaldo. Not even close.

I do realise the difference between the Championship and Premier League, but I'm judging the kid on his entire body of work. Everything I've seen of him makes me think he can be a very good player indeed and he has intangibles that Mikel simply doesn't possess. That's why people talk of him as captain material.

It's also why I'd throw him in. Maybe he'd disappear against teams like Man City or give the ball away against European powerhouses like Juventus and Steaua, but would we really notice the difference?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He's always played above his age group at both youth level and U21 etc. with the national team. I don't see why he can't do the same with senior club football at Chelsea.

These are the kind of exaggerated expectations that set back Josh's career.

[Stats 7,142]

Put it this way, if Watford can gain promotion with Zola in charge I firmly hope Chalobah goes back to Watford again on loan next season. I would like to see him in a Chelsea shirt which I am sure we will see some time but I will have no problem with him being loaned out again next season.

[themightyblue 443]

Mikel and Ramires aren't Schweinsteiger or Ronaldo. Not even close.

I do realise the difference between the Championship and Premier League, but I'm judging the kid on his entire body of work. Everything I've seen of him makes me think he can be a very good player indeed and he has intangibles that Mikel simply doesn't possess. That's why people talk of him as captain material.

It's also why I'd throw him in. Maybe he'd disappear against teams like Man City or give the ball away against European powerhouses like Juventus and Steaua, but would we really notice the difference?

I haven't compared their ability whatsoever. But you made a point of saying how they've disappeared against big team, but every player in the world does that. Ronaldo was an example as was Schweinsteiger. Does it mean that they should get rid of Ronaldo and play Callejon instead? No, because at the same time he's proven his worth against the big teams too like Mikel and especially Ramires.

You've just pointed out what i'm trying to say. Mikel possess the long range passing etc of Chalobah, in fact there very similar player barring the fact that Chalobah is probably more agile. The difference? Mikel has had to play in the PL, CL etc and try and show his ability at that level. Chalobah has been able to show it at championship level where their is a massive gulf in class. Completely different ball game. Mikel looked like Xavi while playing for Nigeria, but the pressure and quality at Chelsea is different. He could indeed be a very good player, but it's statements like he's just as good as Mikel/Ramires or he'll play ahead of this player next season which I think are just wrong. Plenty of players fail to make the step up to our level despite looking like world beaters playing in a different league.

It's easy to highlight only their bad games. Could just as easily say we'd certainly notice the difference when he's not showing the defensive solidity that Mikel did against Bayern, or the engine and ball-winning qualities of Ramires against United, Arsenal, Spurs, Barca, Valencia

[The only place to be 11,313]

These are the kind of exaggerated expectations that set back Josh's career.

That is a massively simplistic, and wrong, understanding of the issues with Josh.

I haven't compared their ability whatsoever. But you made a point of saying how they've disappeared against big team, but every player in the world does that. Ronaldo was an example as was Schweinsteiger. Does it mean that they should get rid of Ronaldo and play Callejon instead? No, because at the same time he's proven his worth against the big teams too like Mikel and especially Ramires.

You've just pointed out what i'm trying to say. Mikel possess the long range passing etc of Chalobah, in fact there very similar player barring the fact that Chalobah is probably more agile. The difference? Mikel has had to play in the PL, CL etc and try and show his ability at that level. Chalobah has been able to show it at championship level where their is a massive gulf in class. Completely different ball game. Mikel looked like Xavi while playing for Nigeria, but the pressure and quality at Chelsea is different. He could indeed be a very good player, but it's statements like he's just as good as Mikel/Ramires or he'll play ahead of this player next season which I think are just wrong. Plenty of players fail to make the step up to our level despite looking like world beaters playing in a different league.

It's easy to highlight only their bad games. Could just as easily say we'd certainly notice the difference when he's not showing the defensive solidity that Mikel did against Bayern, or the engine and ball-winning qualities of Ramires against United, Arsenal, Spurs, Barca, Valencia

I knew the Ramires game against Arsenal would crop up. We fail to control the ball in midfield (something Chalobah does exceptionally well) so Ramires has to run around for 45 minutes and he does that very well indeed. Against Barca and Spurs he was on the right-wing as well and I will absolutely agree that Ramires is better than Chalobah in that position.

Anyway, we're not going to agree on this so I really can't see the point in discussing it further.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

That is a massively simplistic, and wrong, understanding of the issues with Josh.

Really? Because as far as I remember he missed a whole year of development last season because he was so hyped by everyone, we all first expected him to get regular minutes here then we all expected him to just walk into the Swansea team. These types of expectations are also the reason everyone is writing him off now because he is not performing up to the unrealistic standers they expect of him.

Same could happen with Nathanial if we are not patient. I believe we have a real talent on our hands, I really do. But if we don't take care, he'll turn into another "could have been". He's doing very well in the championship and he's learning a lot. If we can get him a loan at a lower PL side where he is guaranteed regular playing time, then that would be great, if not I'll be very happy to see him loaned back to Watford. Hopefully in a couple of seasons he'll be ready to be a squad player here and get regular minutes.

I'll be the first one to call for youth integration, but to expect an 18yo with no PL experience to just jump into a side challenging for the tittle is just an insane risk, imo. The expectations here are too high and the managers and fans' tolerance too low. Even if he's rose up to challenges before, there is no need to throw him in the deep like that because if he drowns there won't be anyone to save his career here.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Really? Because as far as I remember he missed a whole year of development last season because he was so hyped by everyone, we all first expected him to get regular minutes here then we all expected him to just walk into the Swansea team. These types of expectations are also the reason everyone is writing him off now because he is not performing up to the unrealistic standers they expect of him.

He missed a year not because fans on forum said 'wow, he iz well gud innit' but because AVB fucked him around. He did the same with Lukaku as well, and I think it's a bit of a stretch to say people are writing him off.

Same could happen with Nathanial if we are not patient. I believe we have a real talent on our hands, I really do. But if we don't take care, he'll turn into another "could have been". He's doing very well in the championship and he's learning a lot. If we can get him a loan at a lower PL side where he is guaranteed regular playing time, then that would be great, if not I'll be very happy to see him loaned back to Watford. Hopefully in a couple of seasons he'll be ready to be a squad player here and get regular minutes.

Are you one of those people who thinks there's a prescribed method of nurturing talent that actually ignores the individual requirements of each player? I'm a believer in players being old enough if they're good enough, and rewarding hard work.

I'll be the first one to call for youth integration, but to expect an 18yo with no PL experience to just jump into a side challenging for the tittle is just an insane risk, imo. The expectations here are too high and the managers and fans' tolerance too low. Even if he's rose up to challenges before, there is no need to throw him in the deep like that because if he drowns there won't be anyone to save his career here.

He'll be 19 in December, but again that seems like you're basing your decisions on nothing but his birth certificate. Experience is another interesting measure that people use, but sometimes it's completely overrated.

The simple fact is that players either have the mentality to deal with pressure or they don't. It's not something you learn, it's not something you can be taught and it's not something he'll acquire on a season-long loan to Stoke or West Brom. That's not how football works, that's not how sport works and that's not how life works.

Lukaku is in the mix not because he's learnt anything revolutionary at West Brom, but because he was able to get a chance there. He has the mentality to succeed, Chalobah has the mentality to succeed and all they need is a chance.

[semiller1313 23]

These are the kind of exaggerated expectations that set back Josh's career.

How did expectations affect Josh's career? I think exaggerated expectations mainly affect those with the expectations. Sure, if everybody is telling you how great you are, you can become overly confident, but I don't think anybody would claim has ever been overly confident. When it comes to player development, I feel that some people put too much emphasis on external factors like expectations, playing time, and loans. IMO natural ability and work ethic are 90% of the equation. If a player has what it takes, he will make it; the cream will rise to the top.

Based on what I have seen, Chalobah has what it takes to be a top player. Should we bring him back now? To me, the question is: Is he better than Romeu? Will he be useful for our team right now? If he is, then I say bring him in use him as a backup DM. If not, let him go on loan to a Premiere league team that needs him.

Edit: Oops, looks like "The only place to be" covered this, should of read the whole thread.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He missed a year not because fans on forum said 'wow, he iz well gud innit' but because AVB fucked him around. He did the same with Lukaku as well, and I think it's a bit of a stretch to say people are writing him off.

It wasn't only forum fans. He was hype by the entire English media which the led to everyone having unrealistic expectations of him, even our board. You can blame AVB all you want, but he's not why everyone thought Josh can walk into the Swansea team.

Are you one of those people who thinks there's a prescribed method of nurturing talent that actually ignores the individual requirements of each player? I'm a believer in players being old enough if they're good enough, and rewarding hard work.

So am I, and what I'm saying is not that Nathanial still has a lot to learn to be good enough to get regular minutes here.

He'll be 19 in December, but again that seems like you're basing your decisions on nothing but his birth certificate. Experience is another interesting measure that people use, but sometimes it's completely overrated.

So you're saying playing a group of youngsters with no European experience in a CL final, even if they have the skills, is the same as playing players with years of experience at the top level? I'm not saying we should never play players with experience, but it's very important, imo.

The simple fact is that players either have the mentality to deal with pressure or they don't. It's not something you learn, it's not something you can be taught and it's not something he'll acquire on a season-long loan to Stoke or West Brom. That's not how football works, that's not how sport works and that's not how life works. Lukaku is in the mix not because he's learnt anything revolutionary at West Brom, but because he was able to get a chance there. He has the mentality to succeed, Chalobah has the mentality to succeed and all they need is a chance.

Lukaku got chances here last season and he was terrible every single time, even with the reserves. What he got at WBA is regular playing time at a top level and that is what Nathanial needs next season as well.