25. Moisés Caicedo

[robsblubot 3,528]

23 minutes ago, Stats said:

We signed Caicedo at age of 21. At age of 21 Kante, was playing in Ligue 2. Caicedo will improve here. I am sure. So if you ask who the better player is at aged 21, Caicedo definitely is. Kante joined Leicester at age 24, but problem with this forum is they treated young players as players who have completed their prime of football. Caicedo is still learning and will get better and I am convinced, majority of people will be changing their words on him.

He was fantastic last season. Yes the price tag was high but along with MacAllister and Mitoma, were their best players. But of course people are going to ridicule him and not give him a chance. First season in a disjointed squad. Give him time.

 

I did not watch Kante at league 2. Someone did tho. That person saw real potential, which I don't see in Caicedo.

I digress tho. Let's just assume, for argument's sake, that Kante and Caicedo both at 22 were about the same level. That really does not mean a whole lot, because that last leap that Kante did is the rarest of them all. That should be self-evident given the ridiculously small number of truly WC players in the game. That's precisely the reason I don't really believe the strategy the club is employing--I suspect they might have miscalculated the odds.

Going back to eyeball/pub guesses, I admit that's what they are, Kante had one extremely underrated quality (to most) which was his control of the football at extreme pace. I don't see anything like that in Caicedo; I don't see anything special about his game. Yes, he's physically rounded (not high balls tho), but he's quick and aggressive, and that's about it.

The difference between Brighton and City is that one makes a number of different bets to strike gold (WC player); while the other waits until they make that rarest leap, and then sign the ready WC player they need to beat everyone else. Sorry, I really don't see an upside in our current strategy.

Edited May 5 by robsblubot

[Stats 7,059]

24 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I did not watch Kante at league 2. Someone did tho. That person saw real potential, which I don't see in Caicedo.

I digress tho. Let's just assume, for argument's sake, that Kante and Caicedo both at 22 were about the same level. That really does not mean a whole lot, because that last leap that Kante did is the rarest of them all. That should be self-evident given the ridiculously small number of truly WC players in the game. That's precisely the reason I don't really believe the strategy the club is employing--I suspect they might have miscalculated the odds.

Going back to eyeball/pub guesses, I admit that's what they are, Kante had one extremely underrated quality (to most) which was his control of the football at extreme pace. I don't see anything like that in Caicedo; I don't see anything special about his game. Yes, he's physically rounded (not high balls tho), but he's quick and aggressive, and that's about it.

The difference between Brighton and City is that one makes a number of different bets to strike gold (WC player); while the other waits until they make that rarest leap, and then sign the ready WC player they need to beat everyone else. Sorry, I really don't see an upside in our current strategy.

See, that is where I disagree. I looked at Caicedo closely last season, especially in Brighton's big games. Last season against Arsenal, he played this hybrid role between RB and DM and he was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking, this guy is a total baller. They had so many standouts that game but he impressed me the most. They had a game against United last season in the FA Cup which United luckily sneaked through and again thought he completely controlled the game. He might of had one little mistake, but other than that he was brilliant.

Then under Potter the season before last, they beat United 4-0. Caicedo probably was 19/20 then. It was a 5.30 game I think. Two now Chelsea boys were on the scoresheet but Caicedo ran the show. Scored in that game too. The potential was clear. As well as being an enforcer, he also dictated the tempo of the game.

You only need to see the match report to see why he got MOTM and the stats:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12606328/brighton-4-0-manchester-united-visitors-worst-premier-league-season-confirmed-after-amex-thrashing

⭐️ Man of the Match, @OfficialBHAFC’s Moises Caicedo 🇪🇨
48 touches
31/34 passes completed
5/8 duels won
2 shots, 1 on target
Club’s 3rd youngest PL scorer
7th Ecuadorian to score in PL pic.twitter.com/assErDDUZQ

— Sky Sports Statto (@SkySportsStatto) May 7, 2022

My point being is clear, let him settle, give him time and get the team to understand the system properly, he will cook. He is able to control games which he did several times at Brighton. If anything, it was when we went to possession football, when Kante sometimes did not look as effective and I thought sometimes especially against teams with low block, I preferred seeing Jorginho and Kovacic together.

Edited May 5 by Stats

[robsblubot 3,528]

1 minute ago, Stats said:

See, that is where I disagree. I looked at Caicedo closely last season, especially in Brighton's big games. Last season against Arsenal, he played this hybrid role between RB and DM and he was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking, this guy is a total baller. They had so many standouts that game but he impressed me the most. They had a game against United last season in the FA Cup which United luckily sneaked through and again thought he completely controlled the game. He might of had one little mistake, but other than that he was brilliant.

Then under Potter, they beat United 4-0. Caicedo probably was 19/20 then. It was a 5.30 game I think. Two now Chelsea boys were on the scoresheet but Caicedo ran the show. Scored in that game too. The potential was clear. As well as being an enforcer, he also dictated the tempo of the game.

You only need to see the match report to see why he got MOTM and the stats:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12606328/brighton-4-0-manchester-united-visitors-worst-premier-league-season-confirmed-after-amex-thrashing

⭐️ Man of the Match, @OfficialBHAFC’s Moises Caicedo 🇪🇨
48 touches
31/34 passes completed
5/8 duels won
2 shots, 1 on target
Club’s 3rd youngest PL scorer
7th Ecuadorian to score in PL pic.twitter.com/assErDDUZQ

— Sky Sports Statto (@SkySportsStatto) May 7, 2022

My point being is clear, let him settle, give him time and get the team to understand the system properly, he will cook. He is able to control games which he did several times at Brighton. If anything, it was when we went to possession football, when Kante sometimes did not look as effective and I thought sometimes especially against teams with low block, I preferred seeing Jorginho and Kovacic together.

Can totally buy the former (enforcer), not so much the latter (dictate tempo). Still hope you are right tho.
Still think that the leap from "he's a total baller" to WC is a bit tougher than we make it out to be eh.

[Thor 2,429]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

We signed Caicedo at age of 21. At age of 21 Kante, was playing in Ligue 2. Caicedo will improve here. I am sure. So if you ask who the better player is at aged 21, Caicedo definitely is. Kante joined Leicester at age 24, but problem with this forum is they treated young players as players who have completed their prime of football. Caicedo is still learning and will get better and I am convinced, majority of people will be changing their words on him.

He was fantastic last season. Yes the price tag was high but along with MacAllister and Mitoma, were their best players. But of course people are going to ridicule him and not give him a chance. First season in a disjointed squad. Give him time.

 

Wait. You're telling me a 21 year old can improve and it isn't all over and doom and gloom for us? 

I thought world class players are just world class. Doesn't matter the age. No one gets better and we need world class players everywhere right now. Why haven't we signed prime R9? 

[Vesper 29,008]

do not sell

he is playing well and I think will only get better

[MoroccanBlue 5,318]

Looking as good as he ever had with Cucurella inverted next to him. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,123]

8 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Can totally buy the former (enforcer), not so much the latter (dictate tempo). Still hope you are right tho.
Still think that the leap from "he's a total baller" to WC is a bit tougher than we make it out to be eh.

Use noni as an example, he's had a crazy amount of stick for been terrible, ATM he's one of the first names on the team sheet! Tired of hearing how bad these players are on a constant basis only for them to improve (cuca), some fans really need to come to the realisation this is how Chelsea is going to operate from now on and the hiring firing and buying throw away players is going to stop. Like it or not it's happening and the fans have to options, get behind the club and the project because it will happen with or without you, or go support man city and go support a club for the trophies! (Not saying this is you btw far from it) 

[robsblubot 3,528]

1 minute ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Use noni as an example, he's had a crazy amount of stick for been terrible, ATM he's one of the first names on the team sheet! Tired of hearing how bad these players are on a constant basis only for them to improve (cuca), some fans really need to come to the realisation this is how Chelsea is going to operate from now on and the hiring firing and buying throw away players is going to stop. Like it or not it's happening and the fans have to options, get behind the club and the project because it will happen with or without you, or go support man city and go support a club for the trophies! (Not saying this is you btw far from it) 

I hear you and I think some of it is just the forum effect: hyperboles to make one’s point create controversy. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle eh.

I remain suspicious of “the project” because I simply have not seen it work at a big club ever. Now of course the club can make specific adjustments in the summer. I suspect they will have to make hard decisions regarding injuries too.

I would not make the mistake of projecting our strong end of the season towards the next season—speaking from experience. Adjustments are necessary. We played little this season… PL and cups.

speaking of which, Noni should be a good rotation option right now. The fact there is literally no one else to play there scares me esp if and when we get some Europe.

[Mário César 996]

11 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Use noni as an example, he's had a crazy amount of stick for been terrible, ATM he's one of the first names on the team sheet! Tired of hearing how bad these players are on a constant basis only for them to improve (cuca), some fans really need to come to the realisation this is how Chelsea is going to operate from now on and the hiring firing and buying throw away players is going to stop. Like it or not it's happening and the fans have to options, get behind the club and the project because it will happen with or without you, or go support man city and go support a club for the trophies! (Not saying this is you btw far from it) 

how we will operate? 

[YorkshireBlue 3,123]

2 minutes ago, Mário César said:

how we will operate? 

I have no idea of the end result or endgame, but you can be damn sure I'll be along for the ride.

[TheHulk 1,882]

Never doubted him, always knew he is a baller.

[TheHulk 1,882]

 

[Thor 2,429]

Always asked to do the most in the middle, gets the most heat because of his price tag, but keeps getting better. 

"He is an absolute flop" 

Sure he is. 21 years old and the finished product. Footballers don't get better. Good thing Vini Jr was benched and never played again. Good thing we got rid of KDB and Salah. Good thing Didier wasn't given the time to grow into his role here. 

Football is a numbers game. We aren't losing games because we are overly less clinical than other teams. It is our defence. We need consistency and better players at CB. Sort that out, and we will be looking a lot better next season.

[Fernando 6,484]

Yup improving immensely and we do not have lavia back. I'm interested to see what he will bring next season if he can stay fit for crying out loud. 

 

[Stats 7,059]

If anyone is or still downplaying his passing, just look at his passing range yesterday and the winner was all because of his fantastic pass for James. His passing is underrated. May I must add, another solid game from him. Looking better and better.

[YorkshireBlue 3,123]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

If anyone is or still downplaying his passing, just look at his passing range yesterday and the winner was all because of his fantastic pass for James. His passing is underrated. May I must add, another solid game from him. Looking better and better.

Couldn't agree more, soon they will find something else they think he's trash at don't worry 🤣

[King Kante 1,500]

2 hours ago, Stats said:

If anyone is or still downplaying his passing, just look at his passing range yesterday and the winner was all because of his fantastic pass for James. His passing is underrated. May I must add, another solid game from him. Looking better and better.

I don't get posts like these either. Has he improved, sure but I equally don't think his passing was that great either yesterday. People in the last two games have been using his through ball to Jackson and his ball to James as examples of him doing 'baller' things.

However, the assit in the WH game was aided by their CB's being around 20m apart, and the Forest one was due to the FB being out of position which allowed him a massive space to knock it into. I would actually say his seeing the pass and hitting first time where the actual better qualities. Additionally, his arched pass to Palmer (who should've done much better) was also his best pass of the day imo. 

However, yesterday against Forest in the middle of the match there were times he gave the ball away easily under pressure. Those are really the moments I worry about him as these types of give aways are the ones that cause the games to get stretched/go 'back-to-front' too much. There have been major examples of him doing this this throughout the season such as the Utd game at home, City at home and Forest at home, Arsenal away etc.  

Now, I appreciate he is a young player and needs time to improve, which is fair enough - and a reason I have said I will give him next season to prove me wrong. However, I personally need to see him playing so well when we aren’t in the tail end of the season where the intensity always starts to drop off. 

[Mhsc 902]

For me his main weakness is concentration. I can't comprehend the talk about his passing. He is not Enzo but he is certainly very capable, to put it lightly, although he did play it a bit too safe for a while when he was at rock bottom for confidence.

With experience and good coaching he will assert himself as one of the world's top midfielders again. Shouldn't have paid £100m for him but we shouldn't have paid that for Enzo either frankly.