closed Chelsea 2-0 Everton

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

9 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I’ve been a big time Christensen critic for ages here. But wow, has this system and manager done him wonders. He legitimately has performed at a world class level since coming in to the team.

When he isn’t being pulled across the pitch and getting into physical duels with attackers he’s top class. His biggest fault was always how weak he is physically so he’d get bullied.

Last thing he needs to add is an eye for forward passes over the top.

And best part is he is just 24 years old. 

Not even yet in prime years for CB. 

His best years should be from 27 to 32. 

Wenger was right about defenders. You have to be patient. 

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I’ve been a big time Christensen critic for ages here. But wow, has this system and manager done him wonders. He legitimately has performed at a world class level since coming in to the team.

When he isn’t being pulled across the pitch and getting into physical duels with attackers he’s top class. His biggest fault was always how weak he is physically so he’d get bullied.

Last thing he needs to add is an eye for forward passes over the top.

Still need to see him play in a back 4 under Tuchel consistently.

[robsblubot 3,205]

Kai was really good and got most votes here, but I really like what I saw from Odoi, so gave him mine.

Tuchel must be happy with the quality he's got - can make small swaps and shift the characteristics of the team without losing sleep. Which is especially important during these times.

BTW, I thought Jorginho was massive as well. Really glad to see him playing his best under Tuchel.

 

[Magic Lamps 11,446]

I must have seen a different game. Jorginho was absolute dogshit. Fluffed his shots, misplaced plenty of passes. Was unusually sloppy. 

[King Kante 1,290]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Still need to see him play in a back 4 under Tuchel consistently.

I have to ask, why?

In the system we are playing at the moment, we are barely conceeding a shot on goal let alone conceeding one. Only goals we have conceded have come down to individual mistakes with Rudi/Mendy and Zouma. Teams are hardly laying a glove on us. 

I get people want a back 4 because it is more "attacking", but I question how much more attacking it is. First, with 3atb, we do not have to worry too much about a DMF (although I do want another big CM/No.6 - SMS would be great.) Then we also get the option to play WB's, which allows the FB's/CHO to push much higher. 

At the moment, I admit we aren't scoring enough goals, but what if you get a Håland and put him in the team? I think there would be a good chance that those 0-0's we've had turn to 1-0 and the 1-0's to 2-0's etc. 

For me, any notion of switching away from 3atb is insanity. We are currently dominating teams since TT came in a manner last seen in Jose Mk.1's time. All we need is a real goal scorer. Move to a back 4 and we are again talking about a minimum of a DMF, CF and possibly 2 CB's. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by King Kante

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I have to ask, why?

In the system we are playing at the moment, we are barely conceeding a shot on goal let alone conceeding one. Only goals we have conceded have come down to individual mistakes with Rudi/Mendy and Zouma. Teams are hardly laying a glove on us. 

I get people want a back 4 because it is more "attacking", but I question how much more attacking it is. First, with 3atb, we do not have to worry too much about a DMF (although I do want another big CM/No.6 - SMS would be great.) Then we also get the option to play WB's, which allows the FB's/CHO to push much higher. 

At the moment, I admit we aren't scoring enough goals, but what if you get a Håland and put him in the team? I think there would be a good chance that those 0-0's we've had turn to 1-0 and the 1-0's to 2-0's etc. 

For me, any notion of switching away from 3atb is insanity. We are currently dominating teams since TT came in a manner last seen in Jose Mk.1's time. All we need is a real goal scorer. Move to a back 4 and we are again talking about a minimum of a DMF, CF and possibly 2 CB's. 

I meant, I want to see how Christensen does again in a back 4. Him doing well in a back 3 is not news. We saw it under Conte.

I don’t think we will stick with the back 3 next season, if Tuchel’s history is anything to go by. We would likely be using different formations. Right now, the back 3...no problem. Tuchel probably decided on it to make sure we achieve what we want to achieve in the short term and he’s making it work so far.

And we spoke about this before, one problem with the back 3 now is that we’re stupidly loaded with attacking players for just 3 positions. That’s gonna be a problem if we want to permanently stick with this system. Then there’s also the fact that some players in the squad are better in a back 4 formation and some better in a back 3 formation. So, there’s some thinking to do over the squad composition this summer.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

2 hours ago, King Kante said:

I have to ask, why?

In the system we are playing at the moment, we are barely conceeding a shot on goal let alone conceeding one. Only goals we have conceded have come down to individual mistakes with Rudi/Mendy and Zouma. Teams are hardly laying a glove on us. 

I get people want a back 4 because it is more "attacking", but I question how much more attacking it is. First, with 3atb, we do not have to worry too much about a DMF (although I do want another big CM/No.6 - SMS would be great.) Then we also get the option to play WB's, which allows the FB's/CHO to push much higher. 

At the moment, I admit we aren't scoring enough goals, but what if you get a Håland and put him in the team? I think there would be a good chance that those 0-0's we've had turn to 1-0 and the 1-0's to 2-0's etc. 

For me, any notion of switching away from 3atb is insanity. We are currently dominating teams since TT came in a manner last seen in Jose Mk.1's time. All we need is a real goal scorer. Move to a back 4 and we are again talking about a minimum of a DMF, CF and possibly 2 CB's. 

Have to agree with some parts.

I really think changing from a back 3 to a back 4 also means the likelihood is that it will either be Mount or Havertz that plays and not the potential for both, which they can in this current system in much more advanced positions.

With the current set up we're able to get Hudson Odoi in as a wingback although he’s basically a winger when we have the ball, we can get 3 from Mount/Pulisic/Havertz/Giroud/Ziyech/Werner/Hudson-Odoi also if he’s not at RWB in the team. Also on top of defensively improving us, I think it gives huge flexibility and options in terms of playing with split strikers, a false 9, actually playing with a target man like Giroud or playing again with 2 number 10s off a front man without really affecting the defensive solidarity and structure within the rest of the team. 

Changing to a back 4 you lose a CB, which if you look at how often Azpi is basically pushed up as a halfback and is involved in our play in the opposition half, its a big loss IMO as this helps overload that right side. You potentially also lose the opportunity for having a free man on the other side as frequently as teams who play a back 3 do because teams tend to struggle with knowing if their fullbacks should be marking or engaging the wingback or marking/tracking the wide attacker in these systems and letting the winger come back with the wingback. Again as we seen tonight the freedom Havertz had in that sort of false 9 role, in other systems I don’t think we can really afford him this luxury and maybe thats another reason why he was struggling before in the 433 Lampard used also.

I don’t think theres as massive an amount of work to do playing this current system to go to the next level compared to if we changed and played 433 or 4231. I think potentially with a goalscorer who can get 20-25 goals a season upfront and maybe a left sided CB and evaluate if we can get a good deal on a misfielder, keeping up in the way we have done so far with Tuchel, this team is capable of bridging that gap again.

Changing to a 433 or a 4231, then you have other things to solve, whos your best CB pairing, Reece James or Azpilicueta, does Azpilicueta really offer more at RB than as a RCB, who starts out of Mount or Havertz in the hole/most advanced midfield role, does Timo play more as a number 9 or from the left side? What to do we do with the other CBs who dont play or haven’t played as well in a back 4?

I think we will maybe be surprised to see this back 3 next season as prominently as we have so far with TT. I think people are more worried about the back 3 because Rudiger, Alonso, Jorginho are playing more frequently but I dont get it because if they come in and do the job and the teams playing well getting results, why change? A lot of the questions people asked about this team under Frank, the structure, the playing style, has already been addressed and then some with this system. Its clear even tonight, 5 changes but still everyone is very familiar with their role and their responsibilities in the team. Thats the sign of a coach having found a good system, that suits a lot of peoples characteristics. When you change a lot of players but still get a high performance. Obviously what TT is doing is also a huge helping hand no doubts but I think even under Conte we looked much better in a back 3 than we had done for most seasons after/before playing a back 4. And arguably the same now with TT also. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[King Kante 1,290]

42 minutes ago, Jason said:

I meant, I want to see how Christensen does again in a back 4. Him doing well in a back 3 is not news. We saw it under Conte.

I don’t think we will stick with the back 3 next season, if Tuchel’s history is anything to go by. We would likely be using different formations. Right now, the back 3...no problem. Tuchel probably decided on it to make sure we achieve what we want to achieve in the short term and he’s making it work so far.

And we spoke about this before, one problem with the back 3 now is that we’re stupidly loaded with attacking players for just 3 positions. That’s gonna be a problem if we want to permanently stick with this system. Then there’s also the fact that some players in the squad are better in a back 4 formation and some better in a back 3 formation. So, there’s some thinking to do over the squad composition this summer.

Yes, that is understandable. Although, whilst I agree that in the attacking areas we are overloaded with options in a 3atb, the flip side is that we are also over staffed in defence in a back 4. Further, if we switch to a back 4 again then it becomes difficult to see how either Guehi or Amapdu come back into the squad, whilst a lot of people are moaning that Tomori has been lost. No chance he comes back whatsoever if we go back to a back 4. 

Furthermore, even if you switch to a back 4, you then need to get a DMF, so I am not sure the switch actually allows for another attacking player but rather creating a need for a DMF that we do not have. 

For me, in the short and long term, 3atb makes more sense when you look at the squad overall and also the top young players we have. I mean, Gallagher also looks like he is a No.6 so playing a formation with two of them also allows him more opportunity to come back.

It'll be interesting to see how things play out, but when we are conceeding 2 goals (that were easily preventable) in 11 games that have also included some top teams, I am not entertaining the idea of a switch of formation. Even if it means losing one of the attacking players. 

+what mo said. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by King Kante

[Magic Lamps 11,446]

The most annoying thing about this game apart from the werner misses and stolen goal is that we gave pickford the chacne to make 3 very good saves so every pundit will keep banging on the rest of the season what a gem england have in goal.

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

9 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

The most annoying thing about this game apart from the werner misses and stolen goal is that we gave pickford the chacne to make 3 very good saves so every pundit will keep banging on the rest of the season what a gem england have in goal.

Pope is best English keeper by a mile.

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, King Kante said:

Yes, that is understandable. Although, whilst I agree that in the attacking areas we are overloaded with options in a 3atb, the flip side is that we are also over staffed in defence in a back 4. Further, if we switch to a back 4 again then it becomes difficult to see how either Guehi or Amapdu come back into the squad, whilst a lot of people are moaning that Tomori has been lost. No chance he comes back whatsoever if we go back to a back 4. 

But it is maybe easier to sell some of the defenders given there are obvious deadwoods and youngsters in there? Otherwise, how do you justify having EIGHT attackers - Werner, CHO, Pulisic, Ziyech, Mount, Havertz, Abraham and Giroud - for just 3 positions? Abraham and/or Giroud will likely leave for the new striker but that's still A LOT of players for just 3 positions.

2 hours ago, King Kante said:

Furthermore, even if you switch to a back 4, you then need to get a DMF, so I am not sure the switch actually allows for another attacking player but rather creating a need for a DMF that we do not have. 

Maybe it's time we actually go out and buy a defensive midfielder for good. Kante isn't getting any younger and we haven't exactly replaced Matic after we sold him to United.

2 hours ago, King Kante said:

It'll be interesting to see how things play out, but when we are conceeding 2 goals (that were easily preventable) in 11 games that have also included some top teams, I am not entertaining the idea of a switch of formation. Even if it means losing one of the attacking players. 

The problem for me is that this back 3 feels like sticking a temporary plaster on a wound. It is merely helping us achieve what we want to achieve this season. Sure, stick with it for now because it's working but I have my doubts whether it'll actually be consistently good in the long term. Get to the summer in good shape and then we can look at plugging the holes in this squad with some signings.

And as I pointed out before, Tuchel has a history of playing multiple formations - mostly the back 4 - and he's not stuck to one specific formation. So, I don't think this back 3 is still gonna be a permanent thing next season.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Magic Lamps said:

The most annoying thing about this game apart from the werner misses and stolen goal is that we gave pickford the chacne to make 3 very good saves so every pundit will keep banging on the rest of the season what a gem england have in goal.

Which good saves are you talking about if you're excluding the misses and stolen goal?

And why do you care about England? 🤣

[Strike 6,958]

6 hours ago, different level said:

Honestly, I've lost hope that Werner will come off good. I've seen this play out too many times and Timo looks worse than all the other players who were in his situation.

I wouldn't say that. Torres, Morata, were both worse. They weren't contributing as much as Werner has with his pace and direct movement

[cosmicway 1,247]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

I wouldn't say that. Torres, Morata, were both worse. They weren't contributing as much as Werner has with his pace and direct movement

Torres scored some fantastic goals over the years, including Camp Nou. Also lost many easy ones and he never made it to become a Chelsea legend.
Morata scored some in the beginning, but overall he was a disappointment. He seems to have changed since he left. The day before against Lazio he scored one with clinical precision. 
When Morata was with us the obvious problem was lack of confidence - usually his mind went awol when presented with a chance.
That does n't appear to be the case with Werner. In fact he looks very much the cool headed type - like Diego for instance. Ok we 've seen clumsiness too from him, but overall it seems that nothing he does seems to work. But may be there is some other problem. Maybe his keeps his eyes on the ground and this is a problem - the goalkeeper, defender gets the better of him.

[Jase 43,479]

14 minutes ago, Strike said:

I wouldn't say that. Torres, Morata, were both worse. They weren't contributing as much as Werner has with his pace and direct movement

I know Werner is frustrating everyone right now in front of goal but there really is a lot of history revisionist when it comes to comparing him with the likes of Torres and Morata. 

Torres was long gone when we got him from Liverpool. He did score some memorable goals for us but we spent far too long in trying to make a lost cause work, especially as a focal point of the team back then and the price we bought him for.

Morata had all the tools to be a top striker but his mentality was weak and his attitude was undesirable here to say the least.

None of those apply to Werner right now. He's all the opposite and the fact that he's even missing all these chances from every direction possible suggests he's not a bad player and he's doing somethings right. It's just a matter of converting chances. I don't know if it's down to the mental side, confidence, finishing touch or all of them but that's like the only thing missing from him at the moment. If he had scored like 5-6 additional goals, people wouldn't be having this conversation about him at all. 

[coolhead23 1,146]

Great 3 points, loved it that we played as a solid unit. Saw only the first half but we dominated the game and more importantly growing in confidence. Havertz was a different player all together today, he was doing a Kante in the opposition half. Loved the tackle by Christensen, Sublime!!! Hope we dont get complacent and keep doing the good work.    

[Jase 43,479]

10 hours ago, Patrick Bamford said:

 

 

10 hours ago, Vytis33 said:

^^^  Audio in the US had him talking to "Reecie" quite a bit too...

Indeed...

 

[King Kante 1,290]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

But it is maybe easier to sell some of the defenders given there are obvious deadwoods and youngsters in there? Otherwise, how do you justify having EIGHT attackers - Werner, CHO, Pulisic, Ziyech, Mount, Havertz, Abraham and Giroud - for just 3 positions? Abraham and/or Giroud will likely leave for the new striker but that's still A LOT of players for just 3 positions.

Maybe it's time we actually go out and buy a defensive midfielder for good. Kante isn't getting any younger and we haven't exactly replaced Matic after we sold him to United.

The problem for me is that this back 3 feels like sticking a temporary plaster on a wound. It is merely helping us achieve what we want to achieve this season. Sure, stick with it for now because it's working but I have my doubts whether it'll actually be consistently good in the long term. Get to the summer in good shape and then we can look at plugging the holes in this squad with some signings.

And as I pointed out before, Tuchel has a history of playing multiple formations - mostly the back 4 - and he's not stuck to one specific formation. So, I don't think this back 3 is still gonna be a permanent thing next season.

Yes, it is 8 players but I would say for 3.5 positions as CHO has been playing well at RWB so when we play the lesser teams you have the option of him going there. As for the others, at least one of Tammy and Giroud are going to leave - Tammy only has two years and with all rumours suggesting he doesn't sign unless he gets the CF1 role consistently and Giroud is at most going to rolling contracts and is now a high end CF2/3. 

As for the others, Mount has enough about him to suggest he can be tried in the No.6 role (I suspect to see this before the season ends.) Then you have Ziyech who is starting to look like Cuadrado and not up to the physicality of the league. 

I am not sure, that is a massive problem. Allow one of Giroud/Tammy leave then possibly sell Ziyech. That would then leave 6 players of 3.5 positions. 

I don't disagree, but if you buy a top end DM then all you're doing is replacing the 3rd CB with a new DM, which isn't resolving the issue of not having enough positions for the AMs/CFs. 

I think TT is pragmatic, if the formation keeps reaping the benefits that it currently is, then I doubt he will change it. If it starts getting picked apart, then for sure back to 4231/433.