Mikel John Obi

[Phil Driver 503]

Lampard had a shocker but so did all of our players bar Cech Terry and Cahill ,Lampard is 35 and can still be brilliant like at West Ham ,Mikel was awful at West Ham despite the result and tonight in a game where Makelele ,Essien would have eaten the game up , Mikel did what he always does ,he hid. I thought he protected the back four? and sprayed brilliant passes ,where? It was the perfect game where the emphasis was on our holder to shine .

I told you like at Spurs when he is put under pressure he is found out and we need to bring the whole team back to help him do his job,like in the champions league ,he is useless. As we were told by Glenn Hoddle and he knows about the sitting role.

[Clevemayer 764]

When the pressure is on Mikel, he crumbles.

Right the question is, what is an acceptable amount of pressure for a DM he should/could handle? one Men advancing towards him, two, thre or more? What is pressure exactly? When SHOULD a DM in a high class mifield at one of the top clubs in worldfootball at all be under pressure from two, three ore more players at any point, is it OK if this situation happens, and how often can he handle this?

With all due respect to Mr. Hoddle, Mour told the press what he thought is Mikels ability and he is spot on about it, also I don't agree with all of Mous decisions. I conceede he is inconsistent, but he was far better this season so far, this was his first game I would say he was really bad, also he had some very good games and few so-so, so his consistency and his work rate have been lifted up, without a doubt. So back to my questions above, I would like to have precisely specified these numbers, by you or even by Mr Hoddle...

[The only place to be 11,313]

Right the question is, what is an acceptable amount of pressure for a DM he should/could handle? one Men advancing towards him, two, thre or more? What is pressure exactly? When SHOULD a DM in a high class mifield at one of the top clubs in worldfootball at all be under pressure from two, three ore more players at any point, is it OK if this situation happens, and how often can he handle this?

With all due respect to Mr. Hoddle, Mour told the press what he thought is Mikels ability and he is spot on about it, also I don't agree with all of Mous decisions. I conceede he is inconsistent, but he was far better this season so far, this was his first game I would say he was really bad, also he had some very good games and few so-so, so his consistency and his work rate have been lifted up, without a doubt. So back to my questions above, I would like to have precisely specified these numbers, by you or even by Mr Hoddle...

Sorry, I'm not sure if top class midfielders should ever crumble. In fact I'm not sure if top class sportsmen should crumble, especially when they're supposed to be at their peak.

There's a reason why after 300 games for this club Mikel still hasn't convinced a large majority of supporters (in my experience anyway).

[Phil Driver 503]

And with all due respect to Adam Bate? Mou will have even more reservations after last night ,as I said Maka and Essien would have eaten that game for dinner in the past ,today we have Mikel . You do the sums. A perfect night for our shining knight who we are told protects the back four to do what is written on the tin ,I am afraid the label is missing. The excuses need to end ,Mikel is a myth ,second to Messi in young player in the world was just that.

[Clevemayer 764]

Sorry, I'm not sure if top class midfielders should ever crumble. In fact I'm not sure if top class sportsmen should crumble, especially when they're supposed to be at their peak.

There's a reason why after 300 games for this club Mikel still hasn't convinced a large majority of supporters (in my experience anyway).

Again the question is WHAT is crumbling and WHAT is the maximum pressure, so you expect him to defend solely against 5 Men, am I getting this right? And To win or loose is nailed on the DMs position, it has notihng to tod with the work rate and the wrong players for the wrong tactics... just asking not assuming...

There was a point why Real wanted Maka back...

EDIT:

by the way, am I right Mikel or wasn't MIkel doing a goal line clearance and putting the only few timeslots together where whe had successfull passing... again just asking?

[Clevemayer 764]

Basel were the attacking threat throughout the game and particularly in the first half, when they enjoyed a 58.3 % dominance of possession, stacked up seven corners and attempted nine shots. Salah, receiving passes inside left-back Cesar Azpilicueta, had been a constant menace and created two chances in the opening 45 minutes while also having two shots on target.

In contrast, Chelsea did not attempt a single shot, on or off target, in the first half. Samuel Eto'o had only 13 touches of the ball in that time, fewer than any other player on the pitch. That was because Chelsea failed to get the necessary service to their lone frontman, with Oscar (seven) and Willian (eight) attempting a disappointing amount of passes in the opposition half at poor respective completion rates of just 71.4% and 62.5%.

That Chelsea's most frequent first-half pass completion, which happened on just eight occasions, were the simple passes between holding midfielder John Obi Mikel, who had to make a goalline clearance before the interval, and right-back Branislav Ivanovic told the tale of a performance which had offered nothing as an attacking threat.

Eto'o went off on a stretcher to be replaced by the returning Torres before half-time while Hazard came on for the poor Oscar prior to the hour mark in attacking moves from Mourinho, albeit one forced by injury. The introduction of Hazard did improve Chelsea, with the Belgian playing four more passes in the opposition half (16) than Oscar (12) had managed in almost 60 minutes.

With Hazard on the field, Chelsea played with more width and he was an important factor in ensuring his team had a greater share of possession (55.1%) in the second half. But Mourinho, strangely, still seemed intent on keeping the handbrake on. He had clearly ordered Oscar and Willian from kick-off to close the space in the centre of midfield and neither player is suited to such a role.

http://www.mychelseafc.com/prev_news/13_news/nov13_news/nov26-8.htm

Intresting numbers and its all Mikels fault, now I see...

[Phil Driver 503]

Again the question is WHAT is crumbling and WHAT is the maximum pressure, so you expect him to defend solely against 5 Men, am I getting this right? And To win or loose is nailed on the DMs position, it has notihng to tod with the work rate and the wrong players for the wrong tactics... just asking not assuming...

There was a point why Real wanted Maka back...

EDIT:

by the way, am I right Mikel or wasn't MIkel doing a goal line clearance and putting the only few timeslots together where whe had successfull passing... again just asking?

No I want him to push us up the pitch and win the ball and make the opposition defend against 5 men ,not sit static and let the opposition swamp us ,have a game of chess.

That is how football games are won by dominating midfield and forcing the opposition back ,not needing Drogba to come back and help you do your job . He plays far to deep and invites teams on to us ,Maka and good holders win the ball on the half way line and as far up the pitch as possible so their team can counter,this fella ,well just stands still and plays slow sideways backwards balls that slow us down and invite 5 attackers to close on you.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Again the question is WHAT is crumbling and WHAT is the maximum pressure, so you expect him to defend solely against 5 Men, am I getting this right?

Here's the weird thing about Mikel - I rarely see him shouting at other players. Great players in that position have been likened to generals, dragging their teammates into position to help them if they're being overwhelmed. Mikel has never done that to my memory.

He always just seems content just to be on the pitch, putting in a 7 out of 10 performance. There's never been any ambition there, any impetus or driving force from him. He's a passenger, which is fine when the team is playing well because he doesn't seem to drag them down but when the going gets tough, Mikel has a tendency to disappear.

I think that lies at the crux of why Chelsea supporters haven't really taken to him. He doesn't ever stand up and be counted or show a huge amount of fight.

Going back to the question I've quoted, no I don't expect him to defend against 5 men (not that he did at any point last night), but I expect him to be something of a leader in that position at this point in his career.

[Clevemayer 764]

No I want him to push us up the pitch and win the ball and make the opposition defend against 5 men ,not sit static and let the opposition swamp us ,have a game of chess.

That is how football games are won by dominating midfield and forcing the opposition back ,not needing Drogba to come back and help you do your job . He plays far to deep and invites teams on to us ,Maka and good holders win the ball on the half way line and as far up the pitch as possible so their team can counter,this fella ,well just stands still and plays slow sideways backwards balls that slow us down and invite 5 attackers to close on you.

thank you, so this leads us to another question, if he leaves his place and presses und trys to make things happen, but it doesn't work, because of the guys infront of him, plus he doesn't even gets out of his half (after what I've seen yesterday, he should have had a sublime game if he was the kind of player you tell us he is) because our wide players are playing in the center to tightn up the pitch, is this a wrong tactical decision and wrong positioning or his fault?

The other Question is, why did it work so well against Inter, when despite loosing two years ago he was probably MOTM, and why does it often work with him and Rambo but not with him and Lamps, plus, if we play 4-3-3 and we have in reallity two CMs and no wingers, so he has as a conclusion of that FIVE players in the middle of the pitch, how should he spread the game, and how should he even get so high up the pitch?

Mous tactics were not to lose, thats it, he just wanted to go through, he nearly escaped, we had purely the wrong tactics in this game, and Mikel, if given the freedom, has shown often enough that he does EXACTLY what you demand form him, but our team lacks stamina and a clear tactical plan.

To be honest I don't know why Jose played like this?

I would have Played Rambo and DeBruyne, or Mikel an DeBruyne to give Rambo a rest. Up I would have played Mata, Willian/Schürrle and Hazard to give Oscar a rest and Mata a go. Would have suited this better, so we could stretch the game with oure immense technically gifted wingers, plus I would have preferred Ba infront of the goal this time but Mou went for tightn up the pitch and defend, and this was the tactic ou CLAIM Mikel is best in but he wasn't it was by far his wort performance, how come this, how could you explain this to me?

[Phil Driver 503]

Man of the match v Inter whose call Adam Bate? Just explaining to you how you get a five on one as you put it , by winning the ball high up the pitch pressing and countering ,noy by sitting and inviting a five on one against you aka Mikel .

[Clevemayer 764]

Here's the weird thing about Mikel - I rarely see him shouting at other players. Great players in that position have been likened to generals, dragging their teammates into position to help them if they're being overwhelmed. Mikel has never done that to my memory.

He always just seems content just to be on the pitch, putting in a 7 out of 10 performance. There's never been any ambition there, any impetus or driving force from him. He's a passenger, which is fine when the team is playing well because he doesn't seem to drag them down but when the going gets tough, Mikel has a tendency to disappear.

I think that lies at the crux of why Chelsea supporters haven't really taken to him. He doesn't ever stand up and be counted or show a huge amount of fight.

Going back to the question I've quoted, no I don't expect him to defend against 5 men (not that he did at any point last night), but I expect him to be something of a leader in that position at this point in his career.

OK fine, and now tell me how Mikel should go and shout at the Legend Lampard or Cech or Terry without the press and even the players himselfs (Lamps and Terry are quite egoistical like we know ) makeing a big deal out of it? I'm completely with you at this point, he HAS TO BE AGGRESSIVE like he was in some of his performances where he was really class, like Gattuso or Seedorf for example.

If the Manager don't allows you to do so and don't gives you the freedom, what can you do? Thats the other Point in MY arguments about Mikel, Mikel is a quite humble guy with unbeliveable technical gifts for his heigt and pin point passing ability, why is such a player kept in shackles (you can see this in his best performances) clearly he is better when given freedom? Isn't it because other players around him have mor freedom and other players allow themselfs to do what they want on the pitch?

What If you know, that the player infront of you will play regardless what he is doing, will it change something for you as a footballer if you don't accept this behaviour? (one thing for sure, YOU won't play the next game)

I want him to be aggressive and given more freedom, he has stated so often what his tactical advice by the manager is, stay calm cool, keep it simple, give the ball to somebody else as quick as you can, but Mikel is more in the Pirlo mood (even if you laugh at me) he is someone who takes a split second longer then another one but if the tacits are right and he drifts away easyily from two or thre players at once (he has done this quite often) plus the players infront of him giveing him the freedom of decision with they're movement he has world class passes in his locker. But again he hasn't this freedom and the players don't seem to fit together. I'm with you if you want him to be more aggressive but thats not what our mangers want from him, plus it seems not to be his nature...

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm with you if you want him to be more aggressive but thats not what our mangers want from him, plus it seems not to be his nature...

Spot on. It's not something that you can coach unfortunately. He's a nice guy, but sometimes winners are real cunts.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Him and Cech were the only decent performers yesterday.

[Clevemayer 764]

Man of the match v Inter whose call Adam Bate? Just explaining to you how you get a five on one as you put it , by winning the ball high up the pitch pressing and countering ,noy by sitting and inviting a five on one against you aka Mikel .

looool, I know youre a fan since when, yesterday? but there was a time before you and Mikel has quite a few great games.

Yeah but if you stand up there in front ALONE like Oscar does, because someone like lamps don't has the legs and the willingness to help you and the back four is exposed, WHAT will your manager tell you? Well done boy, you've tried to press against 5-Men alone at the half life line? Get real, everybody knows you don't have a clue about anything in fooball I'm afraid mate, sorry to say it so directly, but you just keep on and on about it, despite clearly haveing no idea about football in general.

You should just accept it and leave ohter Threads, put the Lamps page in you favourites in your browser and now and then post in Matchthreads, but you shouldn't talk about tactical points at all. And this is not because I disagree with you, I dsagree with many people but I listen to them and I conceede things, you.... you.... I dont know, every time I see a post of you I'm like this:

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He did NOT have a bad game. He was one of our better players yesterday (granted that's not saying much with yesterday's performance). Defensively he was excellent. Lost count of the times he won the ball the back on the edge and around our box when Frank and Rami were easily bypassed in midfield. He made many clearances from the box and won most of headers in the air in midfield not to mention the goal-line clearance.

Offensively his passing was not up to his usual standards, but the argument about him "slowing our transition" makes little sense because what we needed yesterday was to slow down the tempo. Everyone else, especially in the first half, was just gifting the ball back to Basel with long aimless balls and hasty passing decisions. We needed someone to calm things down in midfield and keep the ball. Mikel did it at times but should have done better (and should have had more support to be able to do it better).

Bottom line is, if it weren't for Cech, Azpi and Mikel yesterday, the scoreline would have been much more embarrassing.

[Clevemayer 764]

Spot on. It's not something that you can coach unfortunately. He's a nice guy, but sometimes winners are real cunts.

and this is it, its not his ability but his ROLE he gets from his managers. I think he is a great asset and he shows it when given freedom, EVEN IF HE IS NOT THAT AGGRESSIVE, Pirlo wasn't aggressive too, he had gattuso for this job we have Rambo for this job

[The only place to be 11,313]

and this is it, its not his ability but his ROLE he gets from his managers. I think he is a great asset and he shows it when given freedom, EVEN IF HE IS NOT THAT AGGRESSIVE, Pirlo wasn't aggressive too, he had gattuso for this job we have Rambo for this job

Glad we can agree. I think Mikel can be a good squad player, and even a first team player if he's used in the right way and (for want of a better word) protected. But I think he can look like a lost little boy when he's given too big of a role in the team. I don't know if Rami is the guy you can trust to keep him in check either because he's possibly one of the thickest players we've ever had at this club.

If we had a real leader in that position, like a De Rossi, then Mikel would be fine. I know some of is supporters will say he had a good game last night but Chelsea supporters are knowledgeable enough to expect more from someone who should be a leader by now. It's not his fault because that's just who he is, but we simply can't afford to put too much pressure on him because he will crumble.

[Clevemayer 764]

Glad we can agree. I think Mikel can be a good squad player, and even a first team player if he's used in the right way and (for want of a better word) protected. But I think he can look like a lost little boy when he's given too big of a role in the team. I don't know if Rami is the guy you can trust to keep him in check either because he's possibly one of the thickest players we've ever had at this club.

If we had a real leader in that position, like a De Rossi, then Mikel would be fine. I know some of is supporters will say he had a good game last night but Chelsea supporters are knowledgeable enough to expect more from someone who should be a leader by now. It's not his fault because that's just who he is, but we simply can't afford to put too much pressure on him because he will crumble.

And this is exactly what I'm stating. He should have played better but wasn't the worst on the pitch. Still he should have stood up and shouted at Brana and Rambo for what the hell they where thinking, even if HE was at fault, a aggressive DM has tu pump himself up during the game with adrenaline, this sounds strange but thats it really with such guys on the field they need this "kick". Gattuso was even described as one of the nicest guys in world football OFF the pitch.

Mikel is used in the wrong way IF we want a pure aggressive Midfield. I don't know about Rambo but somteimes I think he goes berzerk on the field, regardless of his seize...