Timo Werner

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4 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Makes sense and I would have done the same. But many German Comments on the internet did not like his decision

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Understandable reaction from them but this isn't a simple black and white situation, TBF. Would like to think Werner didn't make this decision lightly either because he's practically thrown away the chance to win the Champions League when clubs only need 3 wins to do so in the revised format. Plus, we are also facing pretty much a very similar situation with Pedro and Willian anyway. 

[Stats 7,056]

10 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Not factually accurate. We were reported to have made an offer for Van Dijk for example.

The plain truth is that if Liverpool had wanted Werner they'd have paid the fee and satisfied him about the game time he could expect. They did not want him enough to make the deal happen however, and there is a reason for that. Perhaps it's as simple as they believe that their existing front three will all be ahead of Timo for the big games. Fair enough, but that is at least one club whose assessment puts a firm ceiling on expectations for Timo's contribution.

There is a reason no club who Timo might have preferred to play for pushed through a deal for him. This is an inescapable truth. I like Timo, but let's not go overboard with our expectations.

We were linked with him. I am sure we didn't bid for him though, as did no one else and he has lived up to his fee. I think most clubs know Werner's qualities and it is not due to doubts about his quality.  Similar with Aubemayang. Most clubs know he was a top striker but there may be other circumstances why clubs didn't bid for him bit did it surprise people to see him score for fun at Arsenal? No. My mere point is one club going in for a player without much competition does not mean that player is not top class.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Just because Arsenal fans said so, it doesn't mean it is TBH.

I agree but i wasn't commenting on the accuracy of their claim. Indeed i was rather implying that the evidence so far suggests that they were not right. I was simple comparing their attitude to the Pepe deal last summer, with our attitude about todays announcement.

 

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

If anything, it is delusional to consider spending 70 million on a player to be a bargain.

We've both read posts in the transfer forum claiming exactly that about this player, or that player. We have also read many statements claiming that Van Dijk to Liverpool was indeed a bargain.

 

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Different case altogether if you spend less than 50 million on players who have actually proven themselves consistently beyond one season. The Premier League will be a different league than what Werner is used to in the Bundesliga or Ziyech in the Eredivisie but at least they have some track record. Pepe had only 1-2 good seasons

Well, we can pick a number and call that the cut-off point but in the end it comes down to player performance. Were the fees we paid for Bats, Timoue and Alvaro bargains, or even acceptable because they were all £50m or less? Player performance, not player cost, is the true yardstick.

I do think we have bought two players who will give us something. I will be shocked if either is a bust, but we need to judge them on how they perform, not on how great we want to believe they will be. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

But Liverpool couldn't pay the fee because of the financial constraints

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

7 minutes ago, Stats said:

We were linked with him. I am sure we didn't bid for him though

I watched a video within the last week purporting to explain why VVD turned down Chelsea. Who knows the truth of it, but Chelsea's interest was widely talked about.

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4 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

If you have evidence to prove otherwise, do share it because there have been several stories explaining Liverpool's financial constraints during this pandemic. Below is one.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/why-liverpool-pulled-the-plug-on-54m-werner-as-chelsea/a1yjdfhc6i4e1rbor3o1xqytu

Plus, let's not forget that their owners also own a Major League Baseball team. So they would have to be even more careful about their finances. 

[Pizy 18,368]

Lot of oppo fans are jealous of this signing but a lot suddenly don't rate him as highly now that he's joined Chelsea. 

Man United fans in particular have been insufferable since Bruno Fernandes joined them and they went on this long run of good results (while still playing horrifically boring football). Now suddenly they've got a "much better" squad than us and Rashford, Martial, McTominay, and Fred are world beaters. Literally ALL players their fans were moaning about and wanting to sell before January. They all wanted Olé sacked, now they're a player (Sancho) away from taking Europe by storm! 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

Just now, Jason said:

If you have evidence to prove otherwise, do share it because there have been several stories explaining Liverpool's financial constraints during this pandemic. Below is one.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/why-liverpool-pulled-the-plug-on-54m-werner-as-chelsea/a1yjdfhc6i4e1rbor3o1xqytu

Plus, let's not forget that their owners also own a Major League Baseball team. So they would have to be even more careful about their finances. 

No, of course I don't have evidence. I also had no evidence that Arsenal lied when they said they only had £40m to spend last summer. Until they spent £70m+ on Pepe that is. Clubs say convenient things for public consumption. 

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40 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I agree but i wasn't commenting on the accuracy of their claim. Indeed i was rather implying that the evidence so far suggests that they were not right. I was simple comparing their attitude to the Pepe deal last summer, with our attitude about todays announcement.

It is fine you want to be cautious and wait and see. That is fair but I do not think anyone has gone overboard with the reaction till the point expectations need to be tampered. People are just happy, especially when you consider (a) we have not even qualified for Champions League yet, (b) we are living in a shitty world right now with the pandemic supposedly affecting club's finances but we are not, (c) we have spent years buying some real duds and (d) Werner - and even Ziyech - have proven themselves and improved themselves year in year out. The stats back that up. Obviously they will need to prove their quality with us, in the Premier League and all that but again, I do not think anyone has gone overboard with their reaction. Also...LET PEOPLE BE HAPPY A BIT IN THIS SHITTY TIMES! 

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

10 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

It is not. Liverpool have American owners and they operate like this. If they did not sell Torres then would never get Suarez. If they did not sell Coutinho they would never get VVD and even Alisson. You underestimate Covid influence. We are in different situation unlike all the others. 

Liverpool wanted Werner for discount. 

Utd, City also had interest. Bayern before. Real spent 60m on Jovic last summer. Zidane still rates Benzema a lot it does not make sense to go for another striker. Same for Barcelona. 

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2 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

No, of course I don't have evidence. I also had no evidence that Arsenal lied when they said they only had £40m to spend last summer. Until they spent £70m+ on Pepe that is. Clubs say convenient things for public consumption. 

Of course but just because one club lie, it does not mean another will lie too. If it was a lie, why were there so many stories about Klopp talking with Werner about a transfer to Liverpool - and they apparently talked multiple times? Heck, Werner even flirted with Liverpool publicly a la Hazard a few times earlier this year.

There is also enough evidence or stories to suggest Liverpool really have their hands tied with their finances because of this pandemic. Plus, (I have countered this in the past but am now bringing this up lol) Liverpool have tended to spend only when they are able to sell someone for big money. But they can't this summer and with the financial constraints, they need to tighten their purse strings.

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[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

34 minutes ago, Jason said:

Of course but just because one club lie, it does not mean another will lie too

They all do but I used a harsh word when I said lie. Perhaps they'd say that their public statements are diplomatic or commercially sensitive.

[Superblue 6,370]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

The summer window will determine this I guess. 

I think in Liverpool's case where they don't have owners willing to put their own money in, and the club must generate their own money for transfers there is a very valid point though given the rumoured income effects on teams, especially in the Premier League.

I think though even if Liverpool do have some money that can be used for transfers, I do think the current situation forced them to be conservative and wait to see how the market "pans out". I think they believed that the market would suppress to a position whereby they could negotiate down from the release clause. With us being prepared to pay the release clause it prevented Liverpool from doing that.

It has to be considered that even though football is returning there is still so much uncertainty for the future. How long will empty stadiums continue for example? This could have a significant impact on teams revenue streams for longer than just this season. The likes of Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal who don't have an owner prepared to help during this time I think will feel the pinch.

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7 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

The likes of Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal who don't have an owner prepared to help during this time I think will feel the pinch.

In Spurs' case, I don't see how having a rich owner would even help them. They just spent a fortune on their new stadium, furloughed their staff (before being forced to a u-turn) and have had to borrow from the Bank of England to support them.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

One good thing about him is that he creates many goals by himself not just scoring tap ins or giving easy assists

 

[Superblue 6,370]

15 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

One good thing about him is that he creates many goals by himself not just scoring tap ins or giving easy assists

 

It's something we've sorely missed since Hazard left. 

That, and the vision and eye for a pass that Ziyech should bring in the final third are two big traits we've been lacking this season and should help us breaking down the teams we've struggled with at the Bridge this season.

[Vesper 28,836]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

Is that writer a Liverpool fan? There seems to be a few negative spin to things in the article...

no clue