Timo Werner

[Special Juan 28,091]

Dear all,

Jason is now happy, he has declared his retirement and will be no longer at Talk Chelsea. Jason is currently trying to find out which house Werner will be living in so he can build a tree house in his garden and spy on him.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Jason for his hard work and hope he can get some sort of signal in the tree house to contact us back soon between his busy period of stalking Werner.

 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

2 hours ago, Stats said:

I don't recall Arsenal fans saying they signed Pepe for cheap

There was a video in which several AFTV regulars were raving about the Pepe deal. They talked about it being the biggest deal of the summer but how, relative to the quality of the player and the list of clubs who were said to have been in for him, they had done a great deal on the fee. In essence they were saying what you're saying now; they felt they had a bargain.

I was like you, I'd have liked Pepe to come here, and was unhappy that another PL club got him instead. A deal can only be judged a bargain if the player meets or exceeds expectations however. They spoke too soon last summer, and I'm suggesting that we should avoid doing so now. I remember those Arsenal fans being absolutely stoked that they'd 'beaten' all the top clubs in Europe to capture the Lille man. None of them stopped to wonder, "Hold on a minute, why have we beaten them?" I'm suggesting we at least bear that question in mind.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Timo Werner: How Chelsea move happened, how he will fit in and what happened to Liverpool deal?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52970103

Is that writer a Liverpool fan? There seems to be a few negative spin to things in the article...

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

2 hours ago, Stats said:

Why did no other team compete with Arsenal to sign Aubameyang? Why did no other big team team apart from Liverpool put in a bid for Van Dijk?

Not factually accurate. We were reported to have made an offer for Van Dijk for example.

The plain truth is that if Liverpool had wanted Werner they'd have paid the fee and satisfied him about the game time he could expect. They did not want him enough to make the deal happen however, and there is a reason for that. Perhaps it's as simple as they believe that their existing front three will all be ahead of Timo for the big games. Fair enough, but that is at least one club whose assessment puts a firm ceiling on expectations for Timo's contribution.

There is a reason no club who Timo might have preferred to play for pushed through a deal for him. This is an inescapable truth. I like Timo, but let's not go overboard with our expectations.

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

There was a video in which several AFTV regulars were raving about the Pepe deal. They talked about it being the biggest deal of the summer but how, relative to the quality of the player and the list of clubs who were said to have been in for him, they had done a great deal on the fee. In essence they were saying what you're saying now; they felt they had a bargain.

I was like you, I'd have liked Pepe to come here, and was unhappy that another PL club got him instead. A deal can only be judged a bargain if the player meets or exceeds expectations however. They spoke too soon last summer, and I'm suggesting that we should avoid doing so now. I remember those Arsenal fans being absolutely stoked that they'd 'beaten' all the top clubs in Europe to capture the Lille man. None of them stopped to wonder, "Hold on a minute, why have we beaten them?" I'm suggesting we at least bear that question in mind.

Just because Arsenal fans said so, it doesn't mean it is TBH. If anything, it is delusional to consider spending 70 million on a player to be a bargain. Liverpool spent that amount on Van Dijk and he has done well for them but no one is calling him a bargain because spending that amount on someone is just out of the norm, even if the transfer market is busted these days. You are either a total success or a flop if you spend that kind of money on someone. Different case altogether if you spend less than 50 million on players who have actually proven themselves consistently beyond one season. The Premier League will be a different league than what Werner is used to in the Bundesliga or Ziyech in the Eredivisie but at least they have some track record. Pepe had only 1-2 good seasons.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

The plain truth is that if Liverpool had wanted Werner they'd have paid the fee and satisfied him about the game time he could expect.

But Liverpool couldn't pay the fee because of the financial constraints. As Klopp said, how would Liverpool explain to their staff and players that they spend 50-60 million on a player, after furloughing them and asking them as well as the players to take a pay cut etc? Am sure if this pandemic hadn't happened, Werner would have been a Liverpool player by now but since this pandemic unfortunately happened, it presented us with the opportunity to get him and we took it. 

[Jase 43,479]

4 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Makes sense and I would have done the same. But many German Comments on the internet did not like his decision

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Understandable reaction from them but this isn't a simple black and white situation, TBF. Would like to think Werner didn't make this decision lightly either because he's practically thrown away the chance to win the Champions League when clubs only need 3 wins to do so in the revised format. Plus, we are also facing pretty much a very similar situation with Pedro and Willian anyway. 

[Stats 7,135]

10 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Not factually accurate. We were reported to have made an offer for Van Dijk for example.

The plain truth is that if Liverpool had wanted Werner they'd have paid the fee and satisfied him about the game time he could expect. They did not want him enough to make the deal happen however, and there is a reason for that. Perhaps it's as simple as they believe that their existing front three will all be ahead of Timo for the big games. Fair enough, but that is at least one club whose assessment puts a firm ceiling on expectations for Timo's contribution.

There is a reason no club who Timo might have preferred to play for pushed through a deal for him. This is an inescapable truth. I like Timo, but let's not go overboard with our expectations.

We were linked with him. I am sure we didn't bid for him though, as did no one else and he has lived up to his fee. I think most clubs know Werner's qualities and it is not due to doubts about his quality.  Similar with Aubemayang. Most clubs know he was a top striker but there may be other circumstances why clubs didn't bid for him bit did it surprise people to see him score for fun at Arsenal? No. My mere point is one club going in for a player without much competition does not mean that player is not top class.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Just because Arsenal fans said so, it doesn't mean it is TBH.

I agree but i wasn't commenting on the accuracy of their claim. Indeed i was rather implying that the evidence so far suggests that they were not right. I was simple comparing their attitude to the Pepe deal last summer, with our attitude about todays announcement.

 

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

If anything, it is delusional to consider spending 70 million on a player to be a bargain.

We've both read posts in the transfer forum claiming exactly that about this player, or that player. We have also read many statements claiming that Van Dijk to Liverpool was indeed a bargain.

 

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Different case altogether if you spend less than 50 million on players who have actually proven themselves consistently beyond one season. The Premier League will be a different league than what Werner is used to in the Bundesliga or Ziyech in the Eredivisie but at least they have some track record. Pepe had only 1-2 good seasons

Well, we can pick a number and call that the cut-off point but in the end it comes down to player performance. Were the fees we paid for Bats, Timoue and Alvaro bargains, or even acceptable because they were all £50m or less? Player performance, not player cost, is the true yardstick.

I do think we have bought two players who will give us something. I will be shocked if either is a bust, but we need to judge them on how they perform, not on how great we want to believe they will be. 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

But Liverpool couldn't pay the fee because of the financial constraints

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

7 minutes ago, Stats said:

We were linked with him. I am sure we didn't bid for him though

I watched a video within the last week purporting to explain why VVD turned down Chelsea. Who knows the truth of it, but Chelsea's interest was widely talked about.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

If you have evidence to prove otherwise, do share it because there have been several stories explaining Liverpool's financial constraints during this pandemic. Below is one.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/why-liverpool-pulled-the-plug-on-54m-werner-as-chelsea/a1yjdfhc6i4e1rbor3o1xqytu

Plus, let's not forget that their owners also own a Major League Baseball team. So they would have to be even more careful about their finances.