Jorginho

[the wes 7,212]

43 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said:

That's the formation sarri plays.... we brought him in to play that way...... he hasn't got the players yet or they are slow learners 

I agree mate sarri needs a season like pep got in his 1st season at city 

[the wes 7,212]

37 minutes ago, xPetrCechx said:

This man destroyed our midfield....

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

the problem is you get no time on the ball in the PL which Jorginho got in the Italian league our Build up play is so slow we need to passed quicker 

[!Hazard! 3,394]

2 minutes ago, the wes said:

the problem is you get no time on the ball in the PL which Jorginho got in the Italian league our play is so slow we need to passed quicker 

It's not just when he's under pressure right now, he even screws up the simple thru balls and passes that he would completed at Napoli with ease. He's clearly in a bad moment right now and needs a break and some more competition in his position

[the wes 7,212]

3 minutes ago, !Hazard! said:

He's clearly in a bad moment right now and needs a break and some more competition in his position

I agree mate that's why I want us to sign Paredes But the iron lady fucked that deal up 🙁🙁🙁

[Jase 43,479]

Okay putting aside Sarri's fondness of Jorginho, can we at least cut the latter some slack?

1. This is Jorginho's first season in English football and before anyone brings up his fee, it's still a whole different league and environment and it's quite likely that he is still adjusting to the demands here.

2. Coming into a side that's ends up struggling can't be easy for anyone. He hasn't been great, sure, but he isn't the main issue or there are other pertinent issues in the squad. 

3. Sarri hasn't done Jorginho any favors by constantly playing the same tactics and same formation every week, leaving him exposed and doing nothing about it.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

53 minutes ago, Jason said:

Okay putting aside Sarri's fondness of Jorginho, can we at least cut the latter some slack?

1. This is Jorginho's first season in English football and before anyone brings up his fee, it's still a whole different league and environment and it's quite likely that he is still adjusting to the demands here.

2. Coming into a side that's ends up struggling can't be easy for anyone. He hasn't been great, sure, but he isn't the main issue or there are other pertinent issues in the squad. 

3. Sarri hasn't done Jorginho any favors by constantly playing the same tactics and same formation every week, leaving him exposed and doing nothing about it.

All fair points but the big question remains: where can he improve? He has no pace, physically very weak especially for the position he is playing, technically I don't think he can improve much at this age. So do you think he will somehow hit better passes in his 2nd season or run faster? He will always be "exposed" because of pace.

I agree he is not even top 3 of our problems at the minute, but lets not fool ourselves he is an extremely limited player and will probably remain like that 

[scargo 75]

The Morata of midfielder. bad decision making, bad shooting, bad defense,, only can short pass but unstable. another big failure.

[Arlen Correa 161]

Should play Kante in that role and bench Jorginho for a while. But buying a poor man's Jorginho should not be an option.

[Henrique 9,133]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Okay putting aside Sarri's fondness of Jorginho, can we at least cut the latter some slack?

1. This is Jorginho's first season in English football and before anyone brings up his fee, it's still a whole different league and environment and it's quite likely that he is still adjusting to the demands here.

Well, this is used many times as a excuse for flops...but give me just one example of a Chelsea player in past 10 years that was a flop in the first season, then became a great player after the period of adaptation? I don't remember a single one. Even outside Chelsea I won't remember a name.

[Unionjack 7,531]

As peeps love to continually say about Eden is a player can only be as good as the players around him.

If our most creative player and best passer doesn;t have targets to pass to then what can he do?

[Henrique 9,133]

10 minutes ago, Mana said:

Drogba. I’ve seen this name pop up many times when I make similar arguments.

 

EDIT: oh you said 10 years. Nevermind.

Drogba was far from a "flop" in his first season. Actually I don't remember someone ever calling him a "Chelsea flop". Saying Droga was a "flop" in the first season is just baseless revisionism. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 minute ago, Henrique said:

Drogba was far from a "flop" in his first season. Actually I don't remember someone ever calling him a "Chelsea flop". 

Never a flop. But certainly lit no fires that 1st season did he.

 

[Superblue 6,372]

9 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Well, this is used many times as a excuse for flops...but give me just one example of a Chelsea player in past 10 years that was a flop in the first season, then became a great player after the period of adaptation? I don't remember a single one. Even outside Chelsea I won't remember a name.

 

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

Drogba. I’ve seen this name pop up many times when I make similar arguments.

 

EDIT: oh you said 10 years. Nevermind.

There were a lot around that time - Makelele, Drogba, Essien, Ashley Cole all had ordinary first seasons and became great players.

Different circumstances because they were probably not brought as first choice immediately but Ivanovic and Azpilicueta I would say because excellent and very important players following a period of adaptation.

But you are right that at Chelsea there is very few examples in recent years of players becoming great following a period adapting. However I would argue that some of that comes down to the culture at the club that we seem very quick to judge a player and cast him off. I would not at all be surprised if Sarri were to get sacked this season at some time, we would then see Jorginho out on loan somewhere next season.

Compare this to clubs with a longer term vision and a manager more comfortable in their position and some players have been afforded time to adapt. It's not a full season but Klopp kept Robertson and Fabinho out of his side until he was comfortable that they were ready and accustomed to how he wanted to play. Fabinho in particular was a great example given the money spent on him and the pressures on Klopp to play him.

Outside the club the biggest example would be De Gea. I would argue Bernardo Silva looked pretty average last season and has kicked on massively this season. There are examples but you are right they are few and far between nowadays.

[Henrique 9,133]

Just now, Unionjack said:

Never a flop. But certainly lit no fires that 1st season did he.

 

I think people tend to look back at Didier as a player he never was. I mean, Didier played 8 full seasons between 2004 and 2012. Only during 2 of those 8 season (06/07 and 09/10) Didier was scored more than 12 league goals. Didier never was a killer goalscorer. His impact in the game was bigger than scoring goals. In my opinion Drogba's first season was pretty much at the same level as his subsequent seasons. Diego Costa is the only true killer CF of the Abramovich era.

[Henrique 9,133]

8 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

 

There were a lot around that time - Makelele, Drogba, Essien, Ashley Cole all had ordinary first seasons and became great players.

Different circumstances because they were probably not brought as first choice immediately but Ivanovic and Azpilicueta I would say because excellent and very important players following a period of adaptation.

But you are right that at Chelsea there is very few examples in recent years of players becoming great following a period adapting. However I would argue that some of that comes down to the culture at the club that we seem very quick to judge a player and cast him off. I would not at all be surprised if Sarri were to get sacked this season at some time, we would then see Jorginho out on loan somewhere next season.

Compare this to clubs with a longer term vision and a manager more comfortable in their position and some players have been afforded time to adapt. It's not a full season but Klopp kept Robertson and Fabinho out of his side until he was comfortable that they were ready and accustomed to how he wanted to play. Fabinho in particular was a great example given the money spent on him and the pressures on Klopp to play him.

Outside the club the biggest example would be De Gea. I would argue Bernardo Silva looked pretty average last season and has kicked on massively this season. There are examples but you are right they are few and far between nowadays.

I see where you are coming from, but in my books Jorginho is not having an "ordinary" season. Barkley is having an ordinary season, but I see Jorginho as a flop and 100% disaster of a signing. I mean, I don't know how some people can't realize this guy is a DM that is useless when the team is defending. He is not a CB or a striker (perhaps the positions that are more punishing in terms of revealing the player's mistakes and weakness), but I would say only Bakayoko and Morata prevents Jorginho from being the worst signing of past 10 years.

About the "long term vision" I think Jorginho playing game after game is more related with Sarri than the clubs long term vision. Its never a good idea when a new manager arrive in a new club and bring a new player as someone that is essential for the team.

[Clockwork 1,794]

In a game where we had Zero shot on target, coincided two goals basically from set plays, and this forum fuming over Jorginho. lol. 

[LAM09 6,830]

In a game where we had Zero shot on target, coincided two goals basically from set plays, and this forum fuming over Jorginho. lol. 

Have you not seen match day threads for the last few months?

Complaints about him have been voiced for sometime & rightly so. 90% of this board are left wondering, what he offers to the team.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 hour ago, Clockwork said:

In a game where we had Zero shot on target, coincided two goals basically from set plays, and this forum fuming over Jorginho. lol. 

Hmm. People are fumming over many players.

Over strikers, over Willian, Pedro, Kovacic, Alonso, Barkley,...they are all underperforming and rightfuly are being called out.

Just because our attack is shite, it doesnt excuse Jorginho underperforming. 

Same goes to Hazard, Kante, Azpi or anyone else. But difference is they have been great servants for the club and have some credit. Jorginho on other hand doesnt and the jury is out.