Jorginho

[communicate 2,703]

9 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

People talk about fluidity and creating chances then slag Jorginho off without remembering that him, Kovacic and Mount were all very good together at the start of the season when the team was flying. Coincidence we start looking poorer and predictable in MF when Frank changes things? Okay the transitional side has always been an issue but that 3 looked very capable of controlling and creating chances. Obviously it is a difficult position to be in for a young manager to have Kante available and out of the side but lets not forget he has his qualities and games he can be effective in also.

The problem with Jorgi is that he need to help us progress the ball faster otherwise there is no point playing him there. 

With kante our ball movement is also not as fast but defensively it is night and day. 

[OneMoSalah 8,799]

1 hour ago, communicate said:

The problem with Jorgi is that he need to help us progress the ball faster otherwise there is no point playing him there. 

With kante our ball movement is also not as fast but defensively it is night and day. 

Personally for me, while we werent particularly solid at the beginning of the season and still fot caught on transitions, we still looked better with Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount in MF than we do now. 

[bohops 7]

13 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Personally for me, while we werent particularly solid at the beginning of the season and still fot caught on transitions, we still looked better with Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount in MF than we do now. 

Agree, Jori needs protection (Kova, Mount or Kante) Ross and Ruben are one way players. They're also are not good enough going one way for Chelsea. Frank is responsible for starting any 2 of these together in the midfield (Ross, Ruben & Jori), Kova, Mount & Jori had the best chemistry this year so far

[Spike 12,049]

Imagine having a bad game occasionally.

[DDA 9,689]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

Imagine having a bad game occasionally.

The Jorginho hate is odd. People are forgetting that we played our best football this season with Jorgy and Kova in the midfield playing impeccable 1-2 combos to slice teams open. His defensive work in mid to low blocks is impressive also. He get's caught on the counter easily but if we had decent defenders it wouldn't always be a problem. Let's not forget the pens he has banged in at crucial times this season too. 

[communicate 2,703]

22 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Personally for me, while we werent particularly solid at the beginning of the season and still fot caught on transitions, we still looked better with Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount in MF than we do now. 

My point with jorgi is he need to give us more. He need a kante/kova next to him to protect him and also help him bring the ball forward as ball carrier. what is his job then?  There are a few game I thought he played well helping us bring the ball (can't remember against whom, it has been a while) but he need to give us more of that, he is not a kid. 

I have no problem with jorgi last year, if we want to play Sarriball total possession sure, but we want to play faster and more direct so he ned to adjust his passing. 

[Puliiszola 519]

15 minutes ago, DDA said:

The Jorginho hate is odd. People are forgetting that we played our best football this season with Jorgy and Kova in the midfield playing impeccable 1-2 combos to slice teams open. His defensive work in mid to low blocks is impressive also. He get's caught on the counter easily but if we had decent defenders it wouldn't always be a problem. Let's not forget the pens he has banged in at crucial times this season too. 

Is it? 

24 starts

9 losses (United, pool, city, whu, Bournemouth, soton, newcastle, United, Sheffield)

6 draws (Leicester, Sheffield, Brighton, arsenal, Leicester, Brighton)

9 wins.

 

Without jorginho starting 

11 games

9 wins, 0 draws, 2 losses 

Honestly it's not difficult to see why the "jorginho hate".

One of the most useless players I have seen

 

[communicate 2,703]

25 minutes ago, DDA said:

He get's caught on the counter easily but if we had decent defenders it wouldn't always be a problem. 

That is crazy mindset, it only work if you play super controlling football otherwise your defender pretty much have to be perfect everytime 

[Puliiszola 519]

7 hours ago, Spike said:

Imagine having a bad game occasionally.

Lol

We have as many wins in 11 games (9wins) when jorginho is not starting to 9 wins in 24 games that he has started in PL this season.

'bad game occasionally' got to be one biased opinions ever with literally no concrete logic or stat to support it.

[DDA 9,689]

9 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Is it? 

24 starts

9 losses (United, pool, city, whu, Bournemouth, soton, newcastle, United, Sheffield)

6 draws (Leicester, Sheffield, Brighton, arsenal, Leicester, Brighton)

9 wins.

 

Without jorginho starting 

11 games

9 wins, 0 draws, 2 losses 

Honestly it's not difficult to see why the "jorginho hate".

One of the most useless players I have seen

 

Jorginho is not useless. 

[killer1257 3,282]

His last performance was probably the worst performance of a no. 6 at Chelsea I have seen my whole life

 

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[Special Juan 27,457]

A very limited player and if some are happy for Kante to be sold then god knows where it leaves Jorginho

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Gorgo is not useless, he needs help in midfield, the likes of Ross etc will never provide that. I still dont understand why FL is so adament changing the line-up every game, we need stability and that wont give us that. That being said he is clearly a goner, get Kai and Partey if possible.

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

Jorginho is not useless. 

I would love for us to have a regista who controls the game. But that cant be jorginho. He is not made for PL. Physicality, speed. Nothing. Unfortunately our defence and GK are a shambles too, so his deficiencies are maginified everytime he takes the field for us. 9 wins and 9 defeats in 24 starts is telling. 9 wins in the remaining 11 games, it cant just be a co-incidence.

I was not happy with gilmour's performance against palace, but atleast we were not so open and screwed with him on the pitch. Jorginho controlled the mid for 15 mins and when the opposition put him and us under the kosh, he went missing. Thats not what a DM is there for. 

He needs to leave for the italian league which suits him. But the way we are building the squad (Mount, Kai, RLC, Barkley), its clear FL wants 2 no. 8s. He is a mismatch in this system. I just hope he does not take the pitch for us again. For his and our sake.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Is it? 
24 starts
9 losses (United, pool, city, whu, Bournemouth, soton, newcastle, United, Sheffield)
6 draws (Leicester, Sheffield, Brighton, arsenal, Leicester, Brighton)
9 wins.
 
Without jorginho starting 
11 games
9 wins, 0 draws, 2 losses 
Honestly it's not difficult to see why the "jorginho hate".
One of the most useless players I have seen
 

But what did the fixture list look like for the 11 games without him? 4 of those loses with him are because the other teams were better.

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[Puliiszola 519]

41 minutes ago, Supermonkey92 said:

But what did the fixture list look like for the 11 games without him? 4 of those loses with him are because the other teams were better.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

I can check that. But just off the top of my head. Man City win. Spurs win. Everton 4-0 win which was easily our best performance of the season. 

So I don't think the opposition is the issue here.

[Spike 12,049]

13 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Lol

We have as many wins in 11 games (9wins) when jorginho is not starting to 9 wins in 24 games that he has started in PL this season.

'bad game occasionally' got to be one biased opinions ever with literally no concrete logic or stat to support it.

That isn't logical or even a worthwhile statistic because it ignores nearly every other fundamental influence on the sport, to look at the sport in such a simple manner is reductive, pointless, and ultimately signals a lack of critical thinking. That is just cause-effect with conjecture. A player can have a good game in a loss, and a bad game in a win. A team sport is typically won and lost through the team, not one player; ergo the only bias here is coming from you.

The information you've completely ignored:

• The other ten Chelsea players and subs
• The eleven opposition plus subs
• Formation and approach of both teams
• Chelsea's form
• Opponet's form
• injuries
• fitness

'bUt JoRgiNho PlaYs whEN teAM lOSes' is an argument you should be ashamed of.

[Puliiszola 519]

34 minutes ago, Spike said:

That isn't logical or even a worthwhile statistic because it ignores nearly every other fundamental influence on the sport, to look at the sport in such a simple manner is reductive, pointless, and ultimately signals a lack of critical thinking. That is just cause-effect with conjecture. A player can have a good game in a loss, and a bad game in a win. A team sport is typically won and lost through the team, not one player; ergo the only bias here is coming from you.

The information you've completely ignored:

'bUt JoRgiNho PlaYs whEN teAM lOSes' is an argument you should be ashamed of.

I think there is a fundamental lack of understanding. The point is "the team loses when jorginho plays". Hence the cause and effect. 

So according to you,

1. The other 10 players play better when jorginho does not start

2. The eleven opposition plus subs start playing better when he does not start

3. Our form suddenly dips and then peaks to accomodate jorginho

Well these are some eye opening relevations.

Stop trying to ignore the main point and fact in front of you. Jorginho makes us weaker. He plays the most pivotal role in any football club - a DM. The link between the defence, mid and attack. 

He is the one player that the opposition continuously attack as they know they will get purchase from it. His lack of defensive solidarity makes our already weak defense and GK, look poorer. 

Your point of it all being just random chance and co-incidence or even "form" would have been acceptable if jorginho had had an injury and we had played those 11 games at a stretch. But we have not. These 11 games are spread across the season to accomodate his susoensions, couple of games through injury and some due to tactical exclusions. So "chance" or "form" or "luck" and trivial arguments like "opposition's" go out of the window. Look at the wins we have had - city, spurs, Everton. 

So no, Its not a "mere co-incidence". Trying to justify this very apparent link between our poor results and jorginho's inclusion is what is simplistic thinking and denial. 

I am just glad that FL sees it that way, and jorginho is on his way out. His Chelsea career is probably a thing that he and us fans can't wait to forget.