🇮🇹 Jorginho

[Puliiszola 519]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

I do not think they have the money for Jorgi

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De ligt then 😂

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

12 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

De ligt then 😂

De Ligt is on an extraordinary wage, his salary is like 14-15m a year basic with a shit tonne of bonuses that can take it up to 20m or beyond apparently. Plus hes just started to find his feet in Italy after a tough start. Would be nice though but like Oblak near financially impossible to pull off imo. Those level of players dont take a huge pay cut. Plus name one player who has ever come here and taken a pay cut in the last 10 years? It would be a rarity to find a name.

[Jase 43,479]

15 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Fuck off. Give us money.

This goes out of the window if Sarri gets sacked by Juventus. 

[Puliiszola 519]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

This goes out of the window if Sarri gets sacked by Juventus. 

Are there any rumors about it?

I do know that they have had some poor results since the restart. But nothing other than that

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Are there any rumors about it?

I do know that they have had some poor results since the restart. But nothing other than that

There have been talks about it but nothing major yet. Sarri's future depends on Juventus' progress in the Champions League this season.

It's not just the poor results but the poor performances, the inconsistency. Sarri is basically having the same problems that he had us with last season. Individual quality has bailed him out so many times this season.

[King Kante 1,643]

Depending on the kind of money Napoli rake in for KK, they may also be an option for Jorgi. Personally, in this market I reckon he will be going for around £30-£40m range. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Depending on the kind of money Napoli rank in for KK, they may also be an option for Jorgi. Personally, in this market I reckon he will be going for around £30-£40m range. 

Would be enough for me.

But Neapel will also go for Boga

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[Jase 43,479]

23 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Depending on the kind of money Napoli rake in for KK, they may also be an option for Jorgi. Personally, in this market I reckon he will be going for around £30-£40m range. 

I don't think Jorginho is a Gattuso type player.

Moreover, Jorginho still has 3 years left on his contract. No way Marina is gonna let him go for around 30-40 million only. 

[King Kante 1,643]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't think Jorginho is a Gattuso type player.

Moreover, Jorginho still has 3 years left on his contract. No way Marina is gonna let him go for around 30-40 million only. 

I think Marina will have to be flexible. If SFL is going for a 433 with two No.8's then there is no place for Jorgi in the squad as you need a No.4 who can cover the ground. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, King Kante said:

I think Marina will have to be flexible. If SFL is going for a 433 with two No.8's then there is no place for Jorgi in the squad as you need a No.4 who can cover the ground. 

But is there anything stopping Lampard from keeping Jorginho around as a squad option? 

There is no guarantee we will sign Declan Rice and Kante gets injured like 50% of the time these days.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

22 minutes ago, Jason said:

But is there anything stopping Lampard from keeping Jorginho around as a squad option? 

There is no guarantee we will sign Declan Rice and Kante gets injured like 50% of the time these days.

Exactly. Plus it gives Gilmour less pressure to develop into his position as well in the longer run as we will still have a more reliable experienced head who can fill in and start certain games without putting too much pressure on him if he doesnt do as well as he did in his first 2 starts, which will always be a point mentioned if he doesnt do overly well or even still plays good but not to that level. 

[King Kante 1,643]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

But is there anything stopping Lampard from keeping Jorginho around as a squad option? 

There is no guarantee we will sign Declan Rice and Kante gets injured like 50% of the time these days.

No. The problem would be, does SFL even want him as a squad player? I mean the only reason he has got back in is due to injuries to both Gilmour and Kante. In a Corvid world is it wise to keep a player you could get £30m+ and pay £100k a week to be the 3rd No.4? This goes double when you're also trying to rebuild your squad.

From the outside looking in, it appears SFL wants to have a different make up in CM, even though it is probably our strongest area in terms of individuals. However, to make any serious moves he will need to probably shift 2-3 players. Personally I see him sticking with 433 but will want more fluidity. I would be surprised if he attempted something like: 

No.8 (No.10 in a 4231) - Harvetz + Barkley/RLC (I imagine Barkley would be the one to be culled) 

No.6 - Mount + Kova 

No.4 - Gilmour + Kante (or new player if someone offers crazy money for Kante.) 

I mean if he does want to go for an attacking No.6 and a No.4 that covers the ground, then I do not see where Jorgi fits. Further, in such a situation I also do not see both Barkley and RLC lasting long as you would just need the one of them. So, that is two players that need to be sold minimum, with Jorgi being the least likely of the three to survive*. 

*this is also before we get to a situation where someone offers good money for Kante. 

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, King Kante said:

No. The problem would be, does SFL even want him as a squad player? I mean the only reason he has got back in is due to injuries to both Gilmour and Kante. In a Corvid world is it wise to keep a player you could get £30m+ and pay £100k a week to be the 3rd No.4? This goes double when you're also trying to rebuild your squad.

From the outside looking in, it appears SFL wants to have a different make up in CM, even though it is probably our strongest area in terms of individuals. However, to make any serious moves he will need to probably shift 2-3 players. Personally I see him sticking with 433 but will want more fluidity. I would be surprised if he attempted something like: 

No.8 (No.10 in a 4231) - Harvetz + Barkley/RLC (I imagine Barkley would be the one to be culled) 

No.6 - Mount + Kova 

No.4 - Gilmour + Kante (or new player if someone offers crazy money for Kante.) 

I mean if he does want to go for an attacking No.6 and a No.4 that covers the ground, then I do not see where Jorgi fits. Further, in such a situation I also do not see both Barkley and RLC lasting long as you would just need the one of them. So, that is two players that need to be sold minimum, with Jorgi being the least likely of the three to survive*. 

*this is also before we get to a situation where someone offers good money for Kante. 

That's the thing. We don't know what exactly is on Lampard's mind (if you want to believe his words, he said something along the lines that Jorginho is important in the team recently). People are just assuming Jorginho will be sold because of the lineups since the restart but we have also seen that putting Kante in the DM role is like square pegs in round holes and Gilmour isn't quite ready yet, despite the hype. Moreover Kante can't seem to stay consistently fit these days and Gilmour won't be back until October and he will then need time to get back into things. 

[Puliiszola 519]

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/features/2020/7/17/21328060/jorginho

 

Loved this. Shows how much overhyped jorginho is. Should be one of the first names out.

[Jase 43,479]

13 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/features/2020/7/17/21328060/jorginho

 

Loved this. Shows how much overhyped jorginho is. Should be one of the first names out.

1. It's hard to take the author seriously when he tends to ramble a lot and he seems to have an agenda on Jorginho.

2. Seems a tad convenient that the article came out now, focusing on Jorginho's recent struggles because he is not starting games. Where was this when we were playing well earlier this season with Jorginho in the XI?

3. Hard to take the author seriously when this sentence exists in the article:

Most of the time Kovačić, Barkley or Loftus-Cheek will muscle off their way on the turn to get forward. This is what makes them special players.

BARKLEY? SPECIAL PLAYER!? 

[Rapkun 668]

27 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/features/2020/7/17/21328060/jorginho

 

Loved this. Shows how much overhyped jorginho is. Should be one of the first names out.

Thanks for sharing the article. Great read. And although the article is biased and focuses primarily on Jorginho's shortcomings, I think it raises very important points. Not sure the Jorginho fanbase is gonna enjoy this one though as the writer doesnt try to ease them in accepting it.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Rapkun said:

Thanks for sharing the article. Great read. And although the article is biased and focuses primarily on Jorginho's shortcomings, I think it raises very important points. Not sure the Jorginho fanbase is gonna enjoy this one though as the writer doesnt try to ease them in accepting it.

lol No one is crazy enough to think that Jorginho doesn't have his flaws. They have been mentioned here more times than one could remember but it's so clear that the author has an agenda (and not just saying this based on the article) and the article focuses only the negative aspects. And as I pointed out, where was this article when we were playing well earlier this season with Jorginho in the XI and Lampard was praising him almost every week?

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

1. It's hard to take the author seriously when he tends to ramble a lot and he seems to have an agenda on Jorginho.

2. Seems a tad convenient that the article came out now, focusing on Jorginho's recent struggles because he is not starting games. Where was this when we were playing well earlier this season with Jorginho in the XI?

3. Hard to take the author seriously when this sentence exists in the article:

 

 

BARKLEY? SPECIAL PLAYER!? 

I still think selling Jorginho will be a mistake. 

Regardless of if we end up signing Declan Rice or not. I don't see Rice as an outstanding midfielder or central defender, good perhaps but he still needs to do a lot more for me to be considered as someone who will come here and make a huge huge difference and warrant the fee.

Also I do hope that Frank and the club arent going to go mad and sign up every half decent English player for crazy money when there is clearly better value out there in foreign players still as we’ve seen with Werner and Ziyech. As we could potentially see with Tagliaco or Onana or Van der Beek or whoever else. I mean what are we talking Rice - 70m, Chilwell - 75m, look at how much Maguire went for as well - 80m. Good players but hardly worth that sort of outlay at this present moment and you could probably find a handful of guys in other European leagues just as good for half the price. I mean we have been linked with signing Nick Pope, which would be a shrewd move if he is our number 2 as he has proved himself in the PL and is very very solid but again I dont think he would make a real difference in the starting 11 week in week out and be a big improvement on Kepa - who people seem to want to throw to the wolves without remembering he has had good performances this season also as well as a very good debut campaign last year.

I mean I don’t grudge us paying 70/75m for Havertz because he is an outstanding talent but those guys mentioned before arent going to be on the sort of level he is in the next 2 or 3 years if he keeps following this trajectory. This may be the Scotsman in me but realistically there aren’t many English players I would say are worth 70/75m or more at present bar Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho, Joe Gomez, Trent Alexander-Arnold and Raheem Sterling. Maybe if Jordan Henderson was 5 years younger he would be valued at that in present day. 

I get having a homegrown core in the squad but surely the academy boys should be that core and a few exceptional homegrown players if we can get them. Rice has more of a chance than Chilwell IMO but I think he still has to prove himself more. He has played virtually every week with West Ham as a DM or as a CB and their league position shows that they have been poor at keeping the ball out. So how people think signing him for 70m will make a massive difference to our backline or midfield when he cannot vastly improve West Hams is odd, if he was playing to the level Virgil van Dijk was at Southampton or Kante was at Leicester then I could see the argument but for me he hasnt been anywhere near close. They have conceded 59 goals, the joint 4th most goals conceded this season. 4 more than last season.

[Rapkun 668]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

lol No one is crazy enough to think that Jorginho doesn't have his flaws. They have been mentioned here more times than one could remember but it's so clear that the author has an agenda (and not just saying this based on the article) and the article focuses only the negative aspects. And as I pointed out, where was this article when we were playing well earlier this season with Jorginho in the XI and Lampard was praising him almost every week?

The article is close to an attempt at making fun of the player. You would think Jorginho is not good enough to play in the lower leagues after reading this. It's a shame because it's still one of the best pieces I've read about the player.

[King Kante 1,643]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

That's the thing. We don't know what exactly is on Lampard's mind (if you want to believe his words, he said something along the lines that Jorginho is important in the team recently). People are just assuming Jorginho will be sold because of the lineups since the restart but we have also seen that putting Kante in the DM role is like square pegs in round holes and Gilmour isn't quite ready yet, despite the hype. Moreover Kante can't seem to stay consistently fit these days and Gilmour won't be back until October and he will then need time to get back into things. 

Well of course. None of us on here know exactly what is going on, so we just speculate. However, for me, of all the CM's I am of the opinion that Jorginho (well actually maybe Barkley but I count him more of a squad player) is the most vulnerable.