🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Callum Hudson-Odoi

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

Why compare players situations at clubs like Roma, AC Milan, Ajax, Fulham, Leverkusen, etc. Its obvious theyre going to play young kids that good.

I mean are people still shocked we dont play youth? Really? In 2019? Baffling.

Doesn't mean we can't ask for a change in the club's culture...

[Fernando 6,585]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Doesn't mean we can't ask for a change in the club's culture...

Because the club don't want youth. 

If they wanted they would NOT appoint such managers. 

As the saying say, you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk. 

The club just talk, but their actions by appointing such managers shows they are not serious. 

[Laylabelle 9,536]

If all was lovely and we were playing amazing I'd understand it being hard to get near. Except we're not. 

He needs to go for his sake. Clearly he doesn't feature so what's the point 

[robsblubot 3,595]

Zola is correct when he refers to big clubs like Chelsea. No not many 18yo, who don’t dominate games like Mbappe did at this age, play for top clubs. 

Then you add the pressure that our managers are constantly under, and they have little incentive to take additional risks.

ironically many folks here who want cho to play more, are also asking for sarri’s sacking, which will just keep the vicious circle going.

a legit question on Twitter: if cho is leaving anyway, so we still play him? Some here will say yes, but I’d say no or even a does not matter/up to the manager. 

The club seems to think he will leave regardless of minutes given and if that’s the case he just does not add enough at this time to justify all the moaning here.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Doesn't mean we can't ask for a change in the club's culture...

Will take time to change, probably not going to be happening anytime soon.

[Vesper 30,212]

1 hour ago, Robchels said:

Zola is correct when he refers to big clubs like Chelsea. No not many 18yo, who don’t dominate games like Mbappe did at this age, play for top clubs. 

 

This list is from November, so maybe a couple are not teens anymore

but

Teenagers starting or getting significant minutes at big or pretty big clubs (some are simply so good now that I list them even though not at a huge club, as they would still be getting big minutes at a bigger club)

 

GK Gianluigi Donnarumma   AC Milan  (for years now)  
GK Alban Lafont    Fiorentina (for 4 years now)

CB Boubacar Kamara  at Marseilles

CB Matthijs de Ligt  at Ajax multi year starter as a teen, WC, top 10 CB already

CB/DMF Declan Rice at West Ham

CB Malang Sarr Nice (for years now)

CB Ibrahima Konaté  RB Leipzig

CB Dan-Axel Zagadou at Dortmund

 

RB Trent Alexander-Arnold  Victimpool (just turned 20, but started as teenager)

RB Achraf Hakimi at Dortmund (best under 20yo RB in world, has exploded this year)

RB Diogo Dalot at Manure (started 2 of his 5 games as well, and would have more, but he was injured for first 2 months)

 

DMF Arne Maier Hertha Berlin (tonnes of starts)

DMF Dennis Geiger at Hoffenheim (31 starts, including CL)

 

CMF Houssem Aouar at Lyon (close to WC already)

CMF Amadou Haidara  at RB Salzburg (deep run in EL as a teen)

CMF Christopher Nkunku  at PSG  over 60 games as a teen, over 20 as a starter AT PSG

CMF Phil Foden   at Shitty

CMF Mattéo Guendouzi   at Arse

CMF Tom Davies at Everton

CMF Weston McKennie at Schalke, started on a team that captured a CL place

CMF Fran Beltrán  at Celta Vigo

 

RMF Abdülkadir Ömür at our new sister club Trabzonspor (he was a starter at 17)

 

LMF/LW/LB  Ryan Sessegnon  at Fullham

 

AMF Nicolò Zaniolo  at Roma

AMF/SS  João Félix at Benfica

 

LW Jadon Sancho at Borrusia Dortmund        turned 18 a few months back, already starting and one of hottest players in world football

LW Rodrygo at Real Madrid (in January) £41m for a 17yo

LW Vinícius Júnior at Real Madrid      £42m for a 18yo 7 games, 2 starts 4 goals, 2 assists

LW Paulinho  at Bayer Leverkusen  £23m for a 17yo 7 games 3 starts

LW Justin Kluivert  at Roma multiple starts as 19yo

LW Willem Geubbels at Monaco (started a game as a 17yo, injured now, back soon)

LW Alphonso Davies at Vancouver (full time starter at 17)

LW Jacob Bruun Larsen   at Borrussia Dortmund   20 games, 10 goals 6 assists as a teen part-time starter

LW Ismaïla Sarr   at Stade Rennais in Ligue 1  27 games, 5 goals, 9 assists as part time teen starter

 

RW Kylian Mbappé PSG

RW Moussa Diaby PSG    BEHIND MBAPPE but STILL 8 games , including 2 starts 2 goals 3 assists as a teen

RW Christian Pulisic  at Borrussia Dortmund  full-time starter as a teen for a team sitting on top in the Bundesliga

RW Reiss Nelson at Hoffenheim   part-time starts as a teen for a CL club

RW Ferrán Torres  at Valencia 18yo 6 games already including 2 starts, one of them La Liga

RW Yann Karamoh  at Inter had 18 games including multiple starts as a teen, played 35 games the year before as a part-time starter (in Ligue 1) at 17 and 18yo

 

CF Luka Jovic at Eintracht Frankfurt  part-time starter as a teen

CF Patrick Cutrone at AC Milan  part-time starter as a teen

CF Myziane Maolida  at Nice, teenage starter 

CF Matheus Cunha     at RB Leipzig, teenage starter 

CF Timothy Weah   at PSG, 18yo,  3 games 1 start, 2 goals

CF Moussa Sylla  at Monaco, part time starter since 17

CF Jann-Fiete Arp   at Hamburg part-time starter since 17

CF Moise Kean  at Juventus, dozens of games as a teen there and on loan to Serie A Hellas Verona

CF Pietro Pellegri   at Monaco  part time starter at Genoa since 15, now at Monaco as a 17yo

[Yeboii 1,844]

I think many didn't get what Zola meant. When he meant "top clubs" he was talking about the creme de la creme of football clubs, not Fulham or Nice!

It is pretty much De Ligt at Ajax and Vinicius Junior at Real that are 18 years old starting regularly for TOP clubs. Even if there are a few more, then it doesn't negate what he said. It is not common for a 18 year old to be a first XI player for a club ACTUALLY COMPETING for trophies each and every season with great success, like Chelsea have been doing (and hopefully still will).

 

And please don't take this as me saying Hudson-Odoi doesn't deserve more starts because I am very frustrated with his lack of playing time.

 

[Vesper 30,212]

8 minutes ago, Yeboii said:

I think many didn't get what Zola meant. When he meant "top clubs" he was talking about the creme de la creme of football clubs, not Fulham or Nice!

It is pretty much De Ligt at Ajax and Vinicius Junior at Real that are 18 years old starting regularly for TOP clubs. Even if there are a few more, then it doesn't negate what he said. It is not common for a 18 year old to be a first XI player for a club ACTUALLY COMPETING for trophies each and every season with great success, like Chelsea have been doing (and hopefully still will).

 

And please don't take this as me saying Hudson-Odoi doesn't deserve more starts because I am very frustrated with his lack of playing time.

 

There are 15 or 16 clubs on my teens list that would have a damn good chance of smashing us now in a head to head

and some of those teens would be starters OR get big minutes at big clubs, which is why I put them on there

[robsblubot 3,595]

33 minutes ago, Vesper said:

This list is from November, so maybe a couple are not teens anymore

but

Teenagers starting or getting significant minutes at big or pretty big clubs (some are simply so good now that I list them even though not at a huge club, as they would still be getting big minutes at a bigger club)

 

GK Gianluigi Donnarumma   AC Milan  (for years now)  
GK Alban Lafont    Fiorentina (for 4 years now)

CB Boubacar Kamara  at Marseilles

CB Matthijs de Ligt  at Ajax multi year starter as a teen, WC, top 10 CB already

CB/DMF Declan Rice at West Ham

CB Malang Sarr Nice (for years now)

CB Ibrahima Konaté  RB Leipzig

CB Dan-Axel Zagadou at Dortmund

 

RB Trent Alexander-Arnold  Victimpool (just turned 20, but started as teenager)

RB Achraf Hakimi at Dortmund (best under 20yo RB in world, has exploded this year)

RB Diogo Dalot at Manure (started 2 of his 5 games as well, and would have more, but he was injured for first 2 months)

 

DMF Arne Maier Hertha Berlin (tonnes of starts)

DMF Dennis Geiger at Hoffenheim (31 starts, including CL)

 

CMF Houssem Aouar at Lyon (close to WC already)

CMF Amadou Haidara  at RB Salzburg (deep run in EL as a teen)

CMF Christopher Nkunku  at PSG  over 60 games as a teen, over 20 as a starter AT PSG

CMF Phil Foden   at Shitty

CMF Mattéo Guendouzi   at Arse

CMF Tom Davies at Everton

CMF Weston McKennie at Schalke, started on a team that captured a CL place

CMF Fran Beltrán  at Celta Vigo

 

RMF Abdülkadir Ömür at our new sister club Trabzonspor (he was a starter at 17)

 

LMF/LW/LB  Ryan Sessegnon  at Fullham

 

AMF Nicolò Zaniolo  at Roma

AMF/SS  João Félix at Benfica

 

LW Jadon Sancho at Borrusia Dortmund        turned 18 a few months back, already starting and one of hottest players in world football

LW Rodrygo at Real Madrid (in January) £41m for a 17yo

LW Vinícius Júnior at Real Madrid      £42m for a 18yo 7 games, 2 starts 4 goals, 2 assists

LW Paulinho  at Bayer Leverkusen  £23m for a 17yo 7 games 3 starts

LW Justin Kluivert  at Roma multiple starts as 19yo

LW Willem Geubbels at Monaco (started a game as a 17yo, injured now, back soon)

LW Alphonso Davies at Vancouver (full time starter at 17)

LW Jacob Bruun Larsen   at Borrussia Dortmund   20 games, 10 goals 6 assists as a teen part-time starter

LW Ismaïla Sarr   at Stade Rennais in Ligue 1  27 games, 5 goals, 9 assists as part time teen starter

 

RW Kylian Mbappé PSG

RW Moussa Diaby PSG    BEHIND MBAPPE but STILL 8 games , including 2 starts 2 goals 3 assists as a teen

RW Christian Pulisic  at Borrussia Dortmund  full-time starter as a teen for a team sitting on top in the Bundesliga

RW Reiss Nelson at Hoffenheim   part-time starts as a teen for a CL club

RW Ferrán Torres  at Valencia 18yo 6 games already including 2 starts, one of them La Liga

RW Yann Karamoh  at Inter had 18 games including multiple starts as a teen, played 35 games the year before as a part-time starter (in Ligue 1) at 17 and 18yo

 

CF Luka Jovic at Eintracht Frankfurt  part-time starter as a teen

CF Patrick Cutrone at AC Milan  part-time starter as a teen

CF Myziane Maolida  at Nice, teenage starter 

CF Matheus Cunha     at RB Leipzig, teenage starter 

CF Timothy Weah   at PSG, 18yo,  3 games 1 start, 2 goals

CF Moussa Sylla  at Monaco, part time starter since 17

CF Jann-Fiete Arp   at Hamburg part-time starter since 17

CF Moise Kean  at Juventus, dozens of games as a teen there and on loan to Serie A Hellas Verona

CF Pietro Pellegri   at Monaco  part time starter at Genoa since 15, now at Monaco as a 17yo

Sorry we seem to strongly disagree on what a big club is. Many in the list above are medium smaller ones in my book.

regardless, my point remain that the ones who play routinely at top clubs are actually better than the alternative, hence why they play.

CHO is simply not at that level atm. Or st least to pushing his way into the team. And again he may be leaving anyway, in which case the criticism is exaggerated.

[Vesper 30,212]

Just now, Robchels said:

Sorry we seem to strongly disagree on what a big club is. Many in the list above are medium smaller ones in my book.

regardless, my point remain that the ones who play routinely at top clubs are actually better than the alternative, hence why they play.

CHO is simply not at that level atm. Or st least to pushing his way into the team. And again he may be leaving anyway, in which case the criticism is exaggerated.

We are nowhere near a top 10 club atm, so you cannot count us technically as a big club (given your ultra narrow definition)

moots the whole CHO minutes at big club discussion

and there ARE 15 or so teams on that list who could (some more likely than others) smash us atm

also its madness to cut out superb teens like Ibrahima Konaté, Nicolò Zaniolo, Arne Maier, João Félix, Sessegnon, etc just because of the clubs they play at, as they would all get way more minutes than CHO has here at even your defined 'big' clubs

 

[Vesper 30,212]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

 

Sarri is a fucking bellend

[Clockwork 1,794]

2 hours ago, Robchels said:

Zola is correct when he refers to big clubs like Chelsea. No not many 18yo, who don’t dominate games like Mbappe did at this age, play for top clubs. 

Then you add the pressure that our managers are constantly under, and they have little incentive to take additional risks.

ironically many folks here who want cho to play more, are also asking for sarri’s sacking, which will just keep the vicious circle going.

a legit question on Twitter: if cho is leaving anyway, so we still play him? Some here will say yes, but I’d say no or even a does not matter/up to the manager. 

The club seems to think he will leave regardless of minutes given and if that’s the case he just does not add enough at this time to justify all the moaning here.

Sarri at Napoli was highly criticized for not playing youths, so his attitude toward youths is a long standing criticism.

So I disagree keeping Sarri will not break the vicious youth policy at Chelsea, to break that you need to hire managers who will give youths a chance.

A manager as rigid and stubborn as Sarri does not in any way represent that.

[robsblubot 3,595]

26 minutes ago, Vesper said:

We are nowhere near a top 10 club atm, so you cannot count us technically as a big club (given your ultra narrow definition)

moots the whole CHO minutes at big club discussion

and there ARE 15 or so teams on that list who could (some more likely than others) smash us atm

also its madness to cut out superb teens like Ibrahima Konaté, Nicolò Zaniolo, Arne Maier, João Félix, Sessegnon, etc just because of the clubs they play at, as they would all get way more minutes than CHO has here at even your defined 'big' clubs

 

Going in circles again here. You think my definition of big club is narrow and I think yours is wrong.   Agree to disagree.

A lot those players play in tiny little leagues, which are not comparable to the pl. and/or play in smaller teams with a lot less pressure against a manager and players. If they lose a few games it’s all good! Big clubs == pressure... so for me you leave out the most important factor when analyzing players!

once again, if he’s not going to stay regardless of playing time, he’s simply not good enough to justify the outcry. Esp if we know our managers are always under additional pressure. 

will be the same again with the next manager.

either folks criticize sarri signing, wasn't a fan myself, at the time or it’s silly to criticize it now. His lack of wins hasnt changed since, then had it? @Clockwork my point exactly - that was known at the time we signed him.

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

6 minutes ago, Robchels said:

gardless of playing time, he’s simply not good enough to justify the outcry. Esp if we know our managers are always under additional pressure. 

 

Think the majority fear another Salah or KDB situation. 

Myself included. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

8 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Think the majority fear another Salah or KDB situation. 

Myself included. 

Sure! I'd be totally on your side if I knew there was a possibility he would stay if given more minutes. However, all the evidence I have (certainly not as much as the club has), points to him wanting to leave pretty much like Eden. Though the conclusion is that we don't really know for sure, which makes the outcry a bit much too. Maybe Sarri sees CHO in practice and he does not look into it?

[Vesper 30,212]

3 minutes ago, Robchels said:

 

A lot those players play in tiny little leagues, which are not comparable to the pl. and/or play in smaller teams with a lot less pressure against a manager and players. If they lose a few games it’s all good! Big clubs == pressure

 

that's simplynot true at all

 

CB Matthijs de Ligt  at Ajax

AMF/SS  João Félix at Benfica

RMF Abdülkadir Ömür at our new sister club Trabzonspor 

 

those are literally the only 3 who play in smaller leagues

as Alphonso Davies was purchased by Bayern, and Haidara by RB Leipzig since I posted that back in November

 

de Ligt and Felix will cost you around £200m

Liverpool, Barca, Juve, Bayern all were sniffing around Ömür, who will cost over £30m when he is sold, tipped as the next Turkish big star, he is an AMF

 

 

[Nicco 927]

17 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Think the majority fear another Salah or KDB situation. 

Myself included. 

He will never come back in the league if he turns out good unlike those 2

[Vesper 30,212]

25 man roster off those players

 

GK Gianluigi Donnarumma  
GK Alban Lafont 

CB Matthijs de Ligt

CB Ibrahima Konaté

CB Boubacar Kamara  

CB Malang Sarr

CB Dan-Axel Zagadou 

LB Ryan Sessegnon

LB Stanley N'Soki (added him as he has 8 starts for PSG, 6 of them League games, 8 and half times as many league minutes as CHO)

RB Trent Alexander-Arnold 

RB Achraf Hakimi 

DMF Arne Maier 

DMF Declan Rice

CMF Houssem Aouar 

CMF Amadou Haidara  

AMF  João Félix

AMF Nicolò Zaniolo

LW Kylian Mbappé

LW Vinícius Júnior 

LW Ismaïla Sarr   

RW Jadon Sancho

RW Christian Pulisic  

CF Luka Jovic 

CF Patrick Cutrone 

CF Matheus Cunha  

 

Only players we currently have who make that team for sure

Kepa

Rudiger (maybe, and de Ligt is already far superior, and Rudiger might be soon be passed up in terms of quality by multiple others and off the team in a few years if we are talking about those CB's 3 years or so from now)

Amapdu I would sneak in there over Malang Sarr, just on pure potential he has

Kante (as a trad DMF)

Hazard (and Mbappe would have to move to RW)

 

Jorginho is not a lock at all IF the manager is not Sarri, as he is only good (and that is debatable) as a DH DMF (which is why Ancelotti tossed him)

 

I would instantly trade our side for that one, especially with Hazard leaving

the only massive loss would be Kante and sorta Kepa, by those 2 GKers are also pretty class

that side is insanely better at winger, far better at CF, better at AMF already and both of those could be top 5 in world AMF someday, far better at fullback and far better at CB, Maier and Rice both have huge potential as trad DMF's as well (not saying Kante level, but still more than adequate)

 

 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

that's simplynot true at all

 

CB Matthijs de Ligt  at Ajax

AMF/SS  João Félix at Benfica

RMF Abdülkadir Ömür at our new sister club Trabzonspor 

 

those are literally the only 3 who play in smaller leagues

as Alphonso Davies was purchased by Bayern, and Haidara by RB Leipzig since I posted that back in November

 

de Ligt and Felix will cost you around £200m

Liverpool, Barca, Juve, Bayern all were sniffing around Ömür, who will cost over £30m when he is sold, tipped as the next Turkish big star, he is an AMF

 

 

Just to clarify, that when I disagree with your assurances about players and/or leagues (and I do), I'm not saying we shouldn't make a move, even when (in my view) they play in smaller leagues/clubs under a lot less pressure. I can tell you for example, that Brazilian players will only really catch scouts eyes when performing well in libertadores, not Brasileiro. Where their perform, and against who,are the most important factors in accession what they will be able to do against the strongest opposition. Precisely why I rate Eden Hazard less than most folks here (Willian consistently outperformed him in CL!). Some of them have the quality and deserve a shot. Personality and other factors may help selecting which would likely succeed abroad.

However, with the current managerial situation, betting on such players may be unwise. They would not be given too many opportunities to succeed, and could end up becoming eternal subs, even if underserved.... see AC who is a good player in my book (just a bit green for CB).

CHO is not of Sarri's making -- that is my main disagreement even when I couldn't care less about Sarri. Thought Napoli was entertaining to watch even if a bit gung-ho, like a team who would lose to pragmatic Jose 9 out of 10 times in single elimination games.

 

[Yeboii 1,844]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

and some of those teens would be starters OR get big minutes at big clubs, which is why I put them on there

Then why aren't they?

Also, some of those players on the list are over 18

Zola was talking of the situation RIGHT NOW. Not how things should be or will be.