🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Ross Barkley

[Pizy 18,908]

12 minutes ago, ChelseaFanUK said:

slightly different roles I think between Barkley and Drinkwater.

 

Drinkwater is like a little ankle biter round the place, gets stuck in whereas Barkley would be more creative

True. I'd say Barkley would be competing with Cesc as the more creative spark. Drinkwater is sort of an all-arounder who can play anywhere in CM.

3 minutes ago, DYC. said:

English talents are so painfully overrated. They get to produce nothing for years yet still hold the title of 'massive talent'. All based on a couple of flashes of quality over a period of years. I just don't get it. It's the same thing over and over again. That's not great talent. That's a decent/average player having a good day every now and again, rather than some huge prospect who mysteriously manages to underperform for years.

I'm not saying they're not talented but the level of their talent, and others like them (not just the English), are overestimated by many.

I welcome both though. HG players are needed and it's not like Chels can sign the likes of Verratti, Neymar etc.

Normally I'd agree, but I think Ox really does have insane potential unlike many of the hugely overrated English players like Wilshere, Walcott, Welbeck etc. 

Barkley not too long ago was touted as a £50-60m player if he moved. Obviously the talent is there to warrant that sort of talk and under the right circumstances (elite coaching, playing with elite players, playing in the CL for the first time) we can see that talent blossom.

Fortunately for us we wouldn't be paying idiotic fees for them like City have with Sterling, Stones, and Walker. We'd be getting both for essentially half the price that those went for and they're just as talented.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Mixed reports on his injury, some saying it's bad and others saying it's nothing.

If we got him for 25m it would be a great deal, he's a blank canvas but underneath it all he has a talent.

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

Shame about his injury... really bad timing...

[Artandur 939]

1 minute ago, xPetrCechx said:

Shame about his injury... really bad timing...

lets see, it might just save us about £25 mil

[J.F. 1,484]

14 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Name them? 23/22 year old players in these countries that'll go for 15m at their quality. Go on.

They're both good players with untapped potential. A move is what they both need. Honestly, for them being at least squad players they'd both be good sensible signings. 

That's the problem. 35m for Oxlade, 40m for Drinkwater?, 25m for Barkley, that's 100M POUNDS for three players who will be squad players at best, too much money!  If those 3 players aren't "homegrown players" we could sign them for 60M combined, just because they are from England price goes insane, u don't need to be a genius scout to find 3 players with similar quality for less money, but again the key is homegrown. Tottenham paid 23m for Aurier who could easily walk in our starting 11 and bossing the right wing, but people will say he has off the pitch problems don't want him here,  for Oxlade will say Conte will make him great, he could easily do that with Aurier and fix his hot head bla bla bla. I don't have a strong opinion about Oxlade and Barkley, and if we sign them would love both of them to prove me wrong.

[Jype 6,398]

2 minutes ago, xPetrCechx said:

Shame about his injury... really bad timing...

Could be a blessing in disguise too. Tottenham have been sniffing around all summer but when the injury got worse the rumours have been pretty quiet so maybe they dropped their interest, paving the way clear for Chelsea to get him.

And also like Artandur said it saves a significant amount of money to buy him when he's not fully fit. Sure it's a risk, but for a club like Chelsea it might just be a risk worth taking. If he's a success we get a 23-yo HG player with huge potential but if he flops then most of the £25M fee can easily be re-couped later just because of his nationality

[akgw13 867]

1 minute ago, J.F. said:

That's the problem. 35m for Oxlade, 40m for Drinkwater?, 25m for Barkley, that's 100M POUNDS for three players who will be squad players at best, too much money!  If those 3 players aren't "homegrown players" we could sign them for 60M combined, just because they are from England price goes insane, u don't need to be a genius scout to find 3 players with similar quality for less money, but again the key is homegrown. Tottenham paid 23m for Aurier who could easily walk in our starting 11 and bossing the right wing, but people will say he has off the pitch problems don't want him here,  for Oxlade will say Conte will make him great, he could easily do that with Aurier and fix his hot head bla bla bla. I don't have a strong opinion about Oxlade and Barkley, and if we sign them would love both of them to prove me wrong.

That line always bugs me haha 

Yes you are correct it is a lot of money for squad players and yes they are overvalued cause they are HG. But HG is an important part of the prem and we need HG players who can do the job. You're correct Aurier is a better player at the moment than Ox but he does have his own issues and isnt HG so what do you want us to do? We are incredibly short on HG players and have a limit of non HG players. I think Ox can do a really great job at RWB and we have to pay that english premium. just the way of the world. If there was no HG quota it would be different. 

[DYC. 7,542]

2 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Normally I'd agree, but I think Ox really does have insane potential unlike many of the hugely overrated English players like Wilshere, Walcott, Welbeck etc. 

Barkley not too long ago was touted as a £50-60m player if he moved. Obviously the talent is there to warrant that sort of talk and under the right circumstances (elite coaching, playing with elite players, playing in the CL for the first time) we can see that talent blossom.

Fortunately for us we wouldn't be paying idiotic fees for them like City have with Sterling, Stones, and Walker. We'd be getting both for essentially half the price that those went for and they're just as talented.

I don't see this insane potential. Neither possess any exceptional qualities which set them apart from their peers.

[The Skipper 20,609]

1 minute ago, J.F. said:

That's the problem. 35m for Oxlade, 40m for Drinkwater?, 25m for Barkley, that's 100M POUNDS for three players who will be squad players at best, too much money!  If those 3 players aren't "homegrown players" we could sign them for 60M combined, just because they are from England price goes insane, u don't need to be a genius scout to find 3 players with similar quality for less money, but again the key is homegrown. Tottenham paid 23m for Aurier who could easily walk in our starting 11 and bossing the right wing, but people will say he has off the pitch problems don't want him here,  for Oxlade will say Conte will make him great, he could easily do that with Aurier and fix his hot head bla bla bla. I don't have a strong opinion about Oxlade and Barkley, and if we sign them would love both of them to prove me wrong.

I don't put Drinkwater who's older than both by a bit under same umbrella as Oxlade and Barkley. There's a clear difference between the former and the latter. Drinkwater never had a high ceiling and won't improve as a player - he's set. Oxlade and Barkley still have untapped potential and have shown flashes of high level ability. They are two of the better English talent out there. The only ones that are better than them are the Spurs lot (-Dier), Rashford, Sterling. They can still improve as players - they aren't "set". We're an English club so we need some good English talent. Maybe they aren't the best but they are at least Chelsea acceptable level. They'll be part of a strong squad in the future. 

Aurier is only going on the cheap because PSG desperately need to sell and he isn't a main 11 player - if he was starting there he'd be costing Spurs £50m imo. It doesn't quite work like that. Barkley at £25m isn't too expensive. Oxlade at £35m - a bit overpriced but Wenger really didn't want to sell so put up an overpriced tag. Drinkwater I've already said a lot on before, don't think he's a good buy - he is not needed if we're signing two English players as well. 

Honestly, for English talent? They're both good players with some interesting qualities. Barkley in particular still hasn't got a set position at all - Conte gets a blank canvas to work with. Both good signings in a crazy market. 

[ChelseaFanUK 1,014]

Admittedly this is the one transfer where i do genuinely believe the reports that he'd probably prefer Spurs. Be interesting to see what the Ev do as they were quoting 50m in June rofl

[The Skipper 20,609]

3 minutes ago, DYC. said:

I don't see this insane potential. Neither possess any exceptional qualities which set them apart from their peers.

Oxlade is an exceptional 1v1 dribbler and has a nice cross on him. Fantastic athlete, great speed and strength. This is a good video highlighting his strengths (about a minute in where real footage starts) - now imagine that more consistently at wingback.

 

[Pizy 18,908]

Just now, The Skipper said:

Oxlade is an exceptional 1v1 dribbler and has a nice cross on him. Fantastic athlete, great speed and strength. This is a good video highlighting his strengths (about a minute in where real footage starts) - now imagine that more consistently at wingback.

 

Yep. Ox has the ability to simply explode past a defender from wide areas. Can see him wreaking absolute havoc down the right along with Willian or Pedro.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

Feel like the only person who doesn't rate Ross Barkley at all. Don't see the hype in him at all. And asking Conte to turn two English projects in Oxlade and Barkley is too much imo.

Im my eyes, Chamberlain > Barkley every day of the week. But many advanced stats signal both players do very impressive stuff when on the ball. Oxlade's xG-chain is crazy high. and Barkley complete a high number of difficult passes in the final third.  

Interesting Stat on Barkley: Apparently Ross Barkley created the most goal-scoring chances of any U23 player  across Europe. 

[DYC. 7,542]

9 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Oxlade is an exceptional 1v1 dribbler and has a nice cross on him. Fantastic athlete, great speed and strength. This is a good video highlighting his strengths (about a minute in where real footage starts) - now imagine that more consistently at wingback.

 

No point in being a good dribbler if you don't follow it up with quality, creative play. Football has seen a lot of good dribblers. If Hazard would get past players yet do nothing of true value afterwards, he would not have survived at Chelsea, let alone thrive.

Same goes for speed and strength. Remember Obafemi Martins? Ineffective without good positional sense/movement.

[The Skipper 20,609]

2 minutes ago, Blue-in-me-Veins said:

Feel like the only person who doesn't rate Ross Barkley at all. Don't see the hype in him at all. And asking Conte to turn two English projects in Oxlade and Barkley is too much imo.

Im my eyes, Chamberlain > Barkley every day of the week. But many advanced stats signal both players do very impressive stuff when on the ball. Oxlade's xG-chain is crazy high. and Barkley complete a high number of difficult passes in the final third.  

Interesting Stat on Barkley: Apparently Ross Barkley created the most goal-scoring chances of any U23 player  across Europe. 

I mean at £25m it's a low risk gamble. The guy needs to sort out quite a few things but he has some interesting ability. At £25m it's not a bad deal. If he sorts out his issues we have a good player in the squad who can meaningfully contribute. If not, we can probably sell him on for £20/25m. 

[The Skipper 20,609]

Just now, DYC. said:

No point in being a good dribbler if you don't follow it up with quality, creative play. Football has seen a lot of good dribblers. If Hazard could get past players and do nothing of true value afterwards, he would not have survived at Chelsea, let alone thrive.

Same goes for speed and strength. Remember Obafemi Martins? Ineffective without good positional sense/movement.

He wouldn't be as high up the pitch as Hazard though. At RWB you naturally have more space to exploit - on counters, even in possession. Oxlade is good in tight spaces. He's actually pretty decent in the final third too - ok he hasn't got the stats to back him in that essence (assists/goals) but honestly, his crossing technique is good. His finishing technique isn't too bad either. He needs a different environment to showcase it effectively though. I can't prove it with stats for example but I think he's got the right attributes to be a very successful wingback at Chelsea. He's much more effective and comfortable in the final third than Moses too because he's naturally good in tight spaces. He hasn't hit his ceiling yet with effectiveness in the final third which is the most exciting bit. In a clear system such as Conte's I think we'll see more production.

Heck, I was saying that he should play there before Wenger even played him there. Even Arsene himself recently said he can see Oxlade developing into one of England's best players soon. He sees him in training every week. Even pushed Bellerin to left back to accommodate Oxlade to keep him. 

[Superblue 6,372]

1 hour ago, Special Juan said:

Mixed reports on his injury, some saying it's bad and others saying it's nothing.

If we got him for 25m it would be a great deal, he's a blank canvas but underneath it all he has a talent.

I agree with this. I've said previously there are lots of similarities between this and Joe Cole.

When we brought Cole he didn't seem to have a defined role and needed to leave his boyhood club to flourish without the pressure of unrealistic expectations.

As people have alluded to already, he has some characteristics to play either as a central midfielder or higher up the pitch - he needs guidance now.

My biggest concern is that he doesn't seem to have been trusted much, certainly under Koeman, and at his age its important he shows quickly the tactical awareness and discipline that appears to be lacking from his game currently. The raw talent is clearly there.

[DYC. 7,542]

11 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

He wouldn't be as high up the pitch as Hazard though. At RWB you naturally have more space to exploit - on counters, even in possession. Oxlade is good in tight spaces. He's actually pretty decent in the final third too - ok he hasn't got the stats to back him in that essence (assists/goals) but honestly, his crossing technique is good. His finishing technique isn't too bad either. He needs a different environment to showcase it effectively though. I can't prove it with stats for example but I think he's got the right attributes to be a very successful wingback at Chelsea. He's much more effective and comfortable in the final third than Moses too because he's naturally good in tight spaces. He hasn't hit his ceiling yet with effectiveness in the final third which is the most exciting bit. In a clear system such as Conte's I think we'll see more production.

Heck, I was saying that he should play there before Wenger even played him there. Even Arsene himself recently said he can see Oxlade developing into one of England's best players soon. He sees him in training every week. Even pushed Bellerin to left back to accommodate Oxlade to keep him. 

I was arguing Pizy on his talent level, not his possible effectiveness at RWB.

Of course he's better footballer than Moses. But everyone went crazy about Moses at first and now I constantly see comments about Moses being average, which he's always been.

I personally don't believe in the so-called magic of Conte. He can't make a player better than he is. But yeah, you would imagine him to function better in a superior unit. That's if he adapts to the role though. I have my doubts about his stamina levels. It's a high energy role and he's never been a high energy player. I also wonder about his tactical awareness and his personal willingness to play the role, but we'll see if he joins.

[mccg 1,528]

Scans have shown that Everton talisman Ross Barkley has suffered a Grade Three tear to his hamstring that will keep him out of action until October, according to the Daily Mail. 25 mill worth a punt ,and better to have numbers than not , and this stage of the game and the hole the board has us in buy buy buy i say.

[termninja 5,290]

I always liked watching lad play against us but honestly he doesn't have a position in our system. Maybe that's why we want him though, to open some other possibilities when playing. Getting him for 25m is a wonderful deal for sure.

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