Álvaro Morata

[OhForAGreavsie 6,064]

5 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

The major problem is if he's as good a goalscoring striker as Costa or even lukaku. But his [Morata's] stats are good though.

It's not about the striker who scores the most goals; it's about the striker whose contribution does the most to help his team win games.

Who can deny that Diego and Rom score lots of goals, but who will deny that, in each case, their limitations also cost their team many attacking opportunities? Who doubts that a ball played into the striker which then results in possession being lost unexpectedly, creates a potentially dangerous situation for the striker's team? It really, really ain't all about the goals an individual scores.

In any case, it turns out not to be something that is either/or. The players who have the superior technical skills that help them make better contributions to their team's pattern of play, also tend to score lots of goals anyway. Consider Suarez, consider Ibra, and consider too Morata's goals per minute ratio.

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

. @xcvxxvc

Twitter is a scary place. Just had someone say Chelsea could play 352. Kante Hazard Willian as the midfield and Lukaku Morata up top hahaha

 

 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

17 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

It's not about the striker who scores the most goals; it's about the striker whose contribution does the most to help his team win games.

Who can deny that Diego and Rom score lots of goals, but who will deny that, in each case, their limitations also cost their team many attacking opportunities? Who doubts that a ball played into the striker which then results in possession being lost unexpectedly, creates a potentially dangerous situation for the striker's team? It really, really ain't all about the goals an individual scores.

In any case, it turns out not to be something that is either/or. The players who have the superior technical skills that help them make better contributions to their team's pattern of play, also tend to score lots of goals anyway. Consider Suarez, consider Ibra, and consider too Morata's goals per minute ratio.

You're right. A lot of people don't consider that when the striker constantly loses the ball, leads to counter attacks against his team, which in turn harms the team’s defence. And it hampers a team from mounting pressure on the opponent or taking advantage of counterattacks. Having a good technical striker is a more important factor of a team than a lot of people realize. 

[The Skipper 20,609]

By Lukaku improving I don't mean his skill set per se. What I mean is that he'll be starting with top class players, week in week out, for the first time in his club career. He hasn't had the platform that Morata has had at all. 

[Leif 6,006]

Lukaku for whatever reason, seems to feel entitled. Entitled to be the leading striker, entitled to be in the team.

Morata seems grateful. He seems less driven by a passion to solely succeed and prove himself, and simply wants to play football with his team.

Lukaku doesn't act like he even enjoys the company of a single Everton teammate. Just shouts at the ones smaller than him or whoever's been at the club for less time, and ignores the guys with more experience. He's a god damn sociopath, and his act that charmed CFC supporters was so damn good.

[The Skipper 20,609]

2 hours ago, DYC. said:

He's been fantastic for Real this year, has to be said. In and out of the team but still managed to make a big impact.

He hasn't been fantastic, just good, what you'd expect from a good striker. Morata's scoring record this season is massively overrated. He comes on in garbage time when the team's already winning - rarely does Zizou bring him on over someone like Isco or James, Asensio or even Vazquez to change the game. Here is a breakdown of his 15 league goals this season:

Morata’s La Liga goals:
4 vs Leganes
2 vs Depor & Granada
1 vs Celta, Athletic, Alaves, Sociedad, Espanyol, Villarreal, Sporting

All quite average, mostly coming on against them in the last 30 minutes of the game when the game is stretched and legs are tired. 

People really want to pay £60m for a guy that hasn't yet reached 50 career league goals. Lukaku is the better striker for me, especially in this system. I'm truly interested to see what he can do when he's the starting 9 at a top club, because I think in a system like Conte's he could easily explode and score 30+ consistently. 

[Thor 2,692]

33 minutes ago, Leif said:

Lukaku for whatever reason, seems to feel entitled. Entitled to be the leading striker, entitled to be in the team.

Morata seems grateful. He seems less driven by a passion to solely succeed and prove himself, and simply wants to play football with his team.

Lukaku doesn't act like he even enjoys the company of a single Everton teammate. Just shouts at the ones smaller than him or whoever's been at the club for less time, and ignores the guys with more experience. He's a god damn sociopath, and his act that charmed CFC supporters was so damn good.

In what way does he feel entitled? He left Chelsea, proved he could be a top goalscorer in the league, and worked his behind off to get to that point. That seems like the exact opposite to me. 

Morata on the other hand seems to be the one complaining about minutes... 

Am I missing something? 

He knows he won't be at the club next season, so him wrapping it up a little is to be expected. He needs to stay fit and healthy so he can get to where he wants to. What exactly is the big deal? I get some of you don't like him for absolutely no reason whatsoever, probably more due to the fact he was here and left, and apparently didn't want to prove himself (when in fact he ended up doing just that by leaving), but some of the psychological reading into this stance, swagger, walk, work ethic needs to stop. He is 23 and the best scorer in England. All you need to know. 

[Leif 6,006]

If you're a teenager

And you play for one of the best clubs in the world

And leave due to not enough game time

You are both arrogant & acting entitled. He may have all the belief in the world, but he proved - nothing - positive with us, and yet continued to speak out against our club, its policy, our coach, even after we'd moved on and he clearly hadn't.

How could you ever want that sort of energy here? That contrived, 'say what makes people support me, but not speak my true mind' energy? Morata's real. He states when asked that he'd like a lot more game time, and yet even if that request isn't fulfilled, he doesn't badmouth anyone. He doesn't shimmy his way out of the club. He's loyal, like Lukaku could've been, and clearly isn't. Watch him abandon Everton who've let him make a real name for himself, right after he abandoned the club which brought him over in the first place and gave him a chance.

Imagine believing Chelsea was truly the club he supported, and that as a teenager, he'd have the head on his shoulders to think 'Ok, I'm going to leave this club to prove myself and come back.' Nah. He stopped supporting us the moment he realised he wasn't getting games for us. He doesn't even post on social media about our successes, our potential league win, etc, when every other ex-player of a club from Arsenal players to United, Madrid, Juve, all get online and share joy for their ex-clubs, even if they're now with a rival. We even had posts from Mata while at United, Ramires once he'd moved, Mikel, Essien, loads of players, because they actually give a shit about the club, which this cretin doesn't. He supports Chelsea on the same level that I've a casual interest in Roma, and hope they win but don't really give a shit when they lose.

Not an adult, not a leader, and he'll never be the player to elevate an already top team. Top teams already have everything he offers. Top teams and coaches value mentality. He brings no positive mentality other than cockiness, which isn't confidence, or he would've remained silent about us since leaving, and silent about 'next season' etc. all the while with Everton. 

"When you look through rose coloured glasses, all the red flags just look like flags." Well, if the blue glasses came off, the alarming amount of red flags surrounding Lukaku would show.

Finally, why are no other top teams interested?

Lukaku's good enough for Tottenham, Liverpool & Arsenal, when he's at his best, which is only 60% of a season so far. Dortmund & Roma too. But he's nowhere near good enough for any Chelsea team since Roman; nowhere near good enough for any of the respectable United teams, Madrid teams, Barcelona teams. In fact, the latter 2 would burst a gut from laughing at the idea of having him.

[mashimaru161 77]

21 minutes ago, Thor said:

In what way does he feel entitled? He left Chelsea, proved he could be a top goalscorer in the league, and worked his behind off to get to that point. That seems like the exact opposite to me. 

Morata on the other hand seems to be the one complaining about minutes... 

Am I missing something? 

He knows he won't be at the club next season, so him wrapping it up a little is to be expected. He needs to stay fit and healthy so he can get to where he wants to. What exactly is the big deal? I get some of you don't like him for absolutely no reason whatsoever, probably more due to the fact he was here and left, and apparently didn't want to prove himself (when in fact he ended up doing just that by leaving), but some of the psychological reading into this stance, swagger, walk, work ethic needs to stop. He is 23 and the best scorer in England. All you need to know. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/05/romelu-lukakus-on-pitch-row-ashley-williams-casts-doubt-everton/

Oh imagine he tells cahill to shut up and stop pointing his finger everywhere. 

[Leif 6,006]

Lukaku's pretty much Everton's most prolific ever player

Yet the majority of their supporters, at least the ones online, are saying only one thing (other than how cold-hot-cold and annoying he is) - not how much of a legend he is (nothing mentioned like that), not about the future, not about the now - they're all just eager to see how much money they can get for him. They'd rather get one big chunk of change for him than have him bang in 20 a season for another 10 years. Yeah, top striker that 

In a similar vein, plenty of Juve fans want to see the back of Hig. He's good, sure, but goals aren't everything, and they know that the moment they dry up, they have a nothing player. 
Scoring goals as a striker is the minimum. So bravo to Lukaku for doing the most basic job he's supposed to do. That doesn't make him an attractive proposition to me though lol. It's like wanting to buy a goalkeeper because he jumps up high at corners. So should all of them , and that 1 trait is barely going to define that player as worthy.

Other than score goals, what does Lukaku do? .... Stand there and use a lot of hand gestures; Sometimes pushes someone over with his shoulders.
Other than score goals, what does Morata do? .... Brings others into play; Dribbles like an above-average winger; Assists as much as any other forward in the team.
Neither go down easily, but only one of them loses the ball 50% of the time they're running with it.

How many times has Lukaku straight up disrespected the club he played for? Every single permanent club he's played for. 
Morata? Not once.

For all his talk, it's not like Lukaku's making more waves than Morata. Morata does everything properly, quietly. Lukaku does 9/10 things poorly and that includes handling himself as a growing man. It's almost too easy to see him and Balotelli becoming kindred spirits.

 

Michy would join, but he isn't as stupid, so he'd leave when things get too rowdy.

Also - Everton finished 6th the season before they signed Lukaku. They were a unit, an improving one at that. The moment they got Lukaku, goals came, chemistry went right out the window, and they've struggled to keep up any sort of building or improving since his arrival. Finishing position this season? 7th. Last season? 11th. That's with the teams around them being weaker this time round, too. A team sacrifices too much to try and compensate Lukaku's bad traits. 

Everton went from being a team, to relying on this 1 man, since that's what the 1 man needs, the entire team to play for him. Otherwise, there's no point in even having him. That's what we wouldn't do at Chelsea, and that's why he couldn't get a goal. It's what Everton are doing, hence him having a high amount of goals, and them likely going into shambles as soon as he leaves. Nothing to do with his supposed quality.

[Thor 2,692]

37 minutes ago, mashimaru161 said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/05/romelu-lukakus-on-pitch-row-ashley-williams-casts-doubt-everton/

Oh imagine he tells cahill to shut up and stop pointing his finger everywhere. 

Should I pull up all the videos of Costa going off on teammates? 

I won't bother posting about this stuff anymore, since most people on here are set in their ways when it comes to Lukaku. I've never seen such a polarising figure potentially joining the team. Hope he comes here and bangs in 30 a season though. 

[Leif 6,006]

Well, yes, because I'd love Costa to be gone. He's an idiot too. Both could be Tottenham's greatest modern day striker, I'm not saying they're Leeds United level. But neither could be that greatest modern striker for any league-winning team in Europe. Our past players have set a bar, and players simply have to match it or best it. Otherwise, you go backwards as a team. 
Lukaku shoots us back into shaky AVB days. I'd sooner bring back the Eto'o / Ba combo, because at least there's no chance of fans being letdown.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,064]

1 hour ago, The Skipper said:

He hasn't been fantastic, just good, what you'd expect from a good striker. Morata's scoring record this season is massively overrated. He comes on in garbage time when the team's already winning - rarely does Zizou bring him on over someone like Isco or James, Asensio or even Vazquez to change the game. Here is a breakdown of his 15 league goals this season:

Morata’s La Liga goals:
4 vs Leganes
2 vs Depor & Granada
1 vs Celta, Athletic, Alaves, Sociedad, Espanyol, Villarreal, Sporting

All quite average, mostly coming on against them in the last 30 minutes of the game when the game is stretched and legs are tired. 

People really want to pay £60m for a guy that hasn't yet reached 50 career league goals. Lukaku is the better striker for me, especially in this system. I'm truly interested to see what he can do when he's the starting 9 at a top club, because I think in a system like Conte's he could easily explode and score 30+ consistently. 

Great information. Thank you.

Interesting thoughts in this and your earlier post about Lukaku too.

[DYC. 7,542]

11 hours ago, The Skipper said:

He hasn't been fantastic, just good, what you'd expect from a good striker. Morata's scoring record this season is massively overrated. He comes on in garbage time when the team's already winning - rarely does Zizou bring him on over someone like Isco or James, Asensio or even Vazquez to change the game. Here is a breakdown of his 15 league goals this season:

Morata’s La Liga goals:
4 vs Leganes
2 vs Depor & Granada
1 vs Celta, Athletic, Alaves, Sociedad, Espanyol, Villarreal, Sporting

All quite average, mostly coming on against them in the last 30 minutes of the game when the game is stretched and legs are tired. 

People really want to pay £60m for a guy that hasn't yet reached 50 career league goals. Lukaku is the better striker for me, especially in this system. I'm truly interested to see what he can do when he's the starting 9 at a top club, because I think in a system like Conte's he could easily explode and score 30+ consistently. 

He has. He's a squad player for Real and in that role, he's been fantastic. Whenever the manager needed him, he mostly delivered. And that's hard. When a player is in and out of the team, he's often desperate to impress (doing too much) and can't build a true connection with his team mates. The player could even suffer from a loss of confidence, which of course affects your form. Most 2nd choice strikers don't manage to make much of an impact in their deputy role.

Not to mention the fact he has often featured in a second string team under Zidane. So he's not playing with Kroos, Modric, Ronaldo etc. most of the time but with Asensio, Vasquez, Isco. Still a good team but not elite.

You say he scores or contributes in 'garbage time'. He's been called to start on 13 occasions (in La Liga) and scored 11 goals in those starts. So, no, he's scored mostly when he starts. He's come off the bench 11 times and scored 4 times in those sub appearances. Only one start in the CL (which was on the left wing) and 3 goals in 7 sub appearances. 15 goals in 1256 min (La Liga) is an average of 1,07 goals per 90 min. 3 goals in 166 min (CL) is 1,63 goals per 90 min. Again, if you have a second choice striker who does that for your team, he's been fantastic, I don't care what you say. You can't compare his record to strikers who start on a weekly basis but that's an impressive record regardless.

Want to pay? I want Belotti. Not Morata or Lukaku. But I do prefer Morata over Lukaku. Lukaku is not that guy for me. He'll score his goals but he won't lead his team to consistent success. That's how I see it anyway. What he offers overall just doesn't cut it for me. Greavsie put it perfectly in the first paragraph of his last post in this thread and that's what I've been trying to say.

But you'd think a 23-year-old future star forward who's made his intentions of wanting to leave so clear would have the very best clubs in world football fighting over him in the same fashion the likes of Dybala, Mbappé, Griezmann, Neymar etc. command interest.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,064]

9 minutes ago, DYC. said:

I want Belotti. Not Morata or Lukaku. But I do prefer Morata over Lukaku.

Exactly this for me.

9 minutes ago, DYC. said:

But you'd think a 23-year-old future star forward who's made his intentions of wanting to leave so clearly would have the very best clubs in world football fighting over him in the same fashion the likes of Dybala, Mbappé, Griezmann, Neymar etc. command interest.

This must mean something. It's clear that Rom expected to leave Everton last summer and expected to be able to choose from a number of top sides. Didn't happen. Maybe it was because of Everton's transfer fee demands, but maybe not.