Tiemoue Bakayoko

[Chelsea? 892]

7 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Nemanja is not a Chelsea youth product.

He was until we sold him as part of Luuz deal

[Unionjack 7,531]

 

[gadget 126]

12 minutes ago, Chelsea? said:

He was until we sold him as part of Luuz deal

was 21 when we first brought him, wasn't an academy product 

[Rekin 835]

24 minutes ago, gadget said:

 

You may be correct, none of us can see what happened on the training pitch, but if we go out and spend 40/50m on a player who we have a very similar player, the acadamy is useless. The Youth is by far the best in the country and arguably Europe. It's clear is someone like Nate (Probably our best product in years/decades) doesn't progress we have no  plan or idea how to progress from youth to seniors

I dont understand how you can say that Chalobah is "a very similar player" to one who regularly starts in the team leading Ligue 1, beat Manchester City in the CL-finals and is pursued by several clubs in Europe. Like how does Chalobah get this status? His biggest achievement to date is having a good season in Watford in the championship a few years ago. Having a similar playing-type does not make players very similar.

Also, do you think that if Conte really saw Chalobah as some kind of amazing fantastic talent, he would use him this sparingly? Its not only up to the club to progress players from youth to seniors, but also up to the players to prove that they are good enough. We have maybe 1% of the insight that the club has whether he is good enough.

[BoyBlue96 990]

We are not a club that plays youth. We're a club who only buy players. It's in our DNA.

And it won't change. Conte didn't play much youth at Juventus and he won't at Chelsea.

RLC got hyped up and got a new contract with a big pay rise. Ridiculous business if you ask me. Chelsea fans even claimed he's better than Dele Alli...

 

[gadget 126]

7 minutes ago, Rekin said:

I dont understand how you can say that Chalobah is "a very similar player" to one who regularly starts in the team leading Ligue 1, beat Manchester City in the CL-finals and is pursued by several clubs in Europe. Like how does Chalobah get this status? His biggest achievement to date is having a good season in Watford in the championship a few years ago. Having a similar playing-type does not make players very similar.

Also, do you think that if Conte really saw Chalobah as some kind of amazing fantastic talent, he would use him this sparingly? Its not only up to the club to progress players from youth to seniors, but also up to the players to prove that they are good enough. We have maybe 1% of the insight that the club has whether he is good enough.

In terms of build and the way they play, as i said i havn't much of the Monaco bloke. You backed up my point, one has been given a chance to play in the big games, the other hasn't. 

Conte has always given high praise to the youth and surprised by the talent we have. Problem is the Youth will make mistakes while learning the trade, Conte (as well as most recent managers) has played it safe with established players

[Unionjack 7,531]

5 minutes ago, Rekin said:

I dont understand how you can say that Chalobah is "a very similar player" to one who regularly starts in the team leading Ligue 1, beat Manchester City in the CL-finals and is pursued by several clubs in Europe. Like how does Chalobah get this status? His biggest achievement to date is having a good season in Watford in the championship a few years ago. 

Also, do you think that if Conte really saw Chalobah as some kind of amazing fantastic talent, he would use him this sparingly? Its not only up to the club to progress players from youth to seniors, but also up to the players to prove that they are good enough. We have maybe 1% of the insight that the club has whether he is good enough.

I'm afraid I agree about Chalobah.

I really wanted to see how he partnered up with N'Golo as it seeme to me they would make a good pairing. But must agree that IF Conte thought along those lines to then ge would be getting playing time. I find it daft myself that RLC gets more time than him.

This season would have done Nathe a world of good on loan to a PL/Champ side - RLC too.

Will have to see what happens in summer but cant see us keeping Matic/N'Golo/Clal/Cescy/RLC and bring in another guy..

[Chelsea? 892]

5 minutes ago, gadget said:

In terms of build and the way they play, as i said i havn't much of the Monaco bloke. You backed up my point, one has been given a chance to play in the big games, the other hasn't. 

Conte has always given high praise to the youth and surprised by the talent we have. Problem is the Youth will make mistakes while learning the trade, Conte (as well as most recent managers) has played it safe with established players

You have to earn your chance to play. 

[Chelsea? 892]

19 minutes ago, gadget said:

was 21 when we first brought him, wasn't an academy product 

Thanks for clarifying for me. 

[Rekin 835]

7 minutes ago, gadget said:

In terms of build and the way they play, as i said i havn't much of the Monaco bloke. You backed up my point, one has been given a chance to play in the big games, the other hasn't. 

Conte has always given high praise to the youth and surprised by the talent we have. Problem is the Youth will make mistakes while learning the trade, Conte (as well as most recent managers) has played it safe with established players

Not sure what you are saying. You havent seen much of Bakayoko, but you think they are similar in build and the way they play? In other words your opinion is not really worth much, and I say this without meaning disrespect. 

Also, it seems that with your logic the only difference between players is whether they get a chance or not, which is silly. What about ability? Bakayoko gets to play both small and big games, Chalobah gets to play 10 minutes at the end of every 5th game, and maybe some easy cup game.

[gadget 126]

3 minutes ago, Rekin said:

Not sure what you are saying. You havent seen much of Bakayoko, but you think they are similar in build and the way they play? In other words your opinion is not really worth much, and I say this without meaning disrespect. 

Also, it seems that with your logic the only difference between players is whether they get a chance or not, which is silly. What about ability? Bakayoko gets to play both small and big games, Chalobah gets to play 10 minutes at the end of every 5th game, and maybe some easy cup game.

I guess we're not on the same wavelength at all. I've seen clips and videos but i am not going to lie and pretend i'm a avid french league viewer, i doubt many of us on here are. However what i have seen, they are similar players in terms of their play. 

Ok put it this way, they are similar ages correct? go back 3,4,5 years back, Chalobah was higher rated for ability. Bakayoko has a chance to play which he shone, Chalobah has not progressed due to game time since.

Make sense?

[Chelsea? 892]

Seems we have been under rating Matic here. 7assists from his position is nothing short of great. 

[the wes 7,212]

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

1 hour ago, gadget said:

 

You may be correct, none of us can see what happened on the training pitch, but if we go out and spend 40/50m on a player who we have a very similar player, the acadamy is useless. The Youth is by far the best in the country and arguably Europe. It's clear is someone like Nate (Probably our best product in years/decades) doesn't progress we have no  plan or idea how to progress from youth to seniors

I think the plan remains the same. Academy graduates will be selected when, and only when, the current manager decides to do so. When circumstances permit the manager might, as Antonio and others have done, select players for development purposes. Other than that selection has to be earned and the manager is the person to decide when it has been. If this implies that the whole academy structure needs re-examination, then so be it.

Ultimately, if you or I were running the team we'd make our own choices over selection. Antonio must be allowed to do the same.

As for your assessment of Nat, or mine come to that, it's just opinion. Maybe Antonio agrees, maybe he does not, but if he says 'best in decades' does not equal good enough then that's his call to make. Again, if this implies that the whole academy structure needs re-examination, then, again, so be it.

[Tomo 21,733]

4 hours ago, gadget said:

How would you know if he has'nt had a chance. But yeah logic says spend £40m+ when we could have a carbon copy rotting away 

The club have numerous access to data and performance stats as well as seeing these lads in training. If they need to shove them in the first team to work out if they are good enough or not they shouldn't be coaching at this club.

[Chelsea? 892]

1 hour ago, lucio said:

he would not have sold mikel and oscar, leaving chalobah as backup if he wasn't impressed. Or bring him on v man city with a 1 goal lead

Do you think managers want youngsters to fail? That post makes it seem like Conte knows Charlobah is good but he doesn't want him to succeed, so he only plays him when we really need to win and sit him when we have the win at hand. 

Charlobah is still here because he has impressed Conte. But maybe he's not starting because Matic and Kante have impressed him more. 

Chalobah isnt good enough yet to win us a CL trophy, which is the next step in our progress. 

I would like to see he and RLC get loaned out for next year. 

[Chelsea? 892]

Just now, Tomo said:

The club have numerous access to data and performance stats as well as seeing these lads in training. If they need to shove them in the first team to work out if they are good enough or not they shouldn't be coaching at this club.

People act as if the youngster we've let go have become world class else where. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

44 minutes ago, Chelsea? said:

Seems we have been under rating Matic here. 7assists from his position is nothing short of great. 

Never mind the quality, feel the width eh? There are assists, and then there are assists. They are certainly not created equal.

When judging the contribution of any player, it's not a simple matter of measuring his output. Questions have to be asked, and answered. How often does the player do as well as he can have done in a given situation? Can we reasonably expect our starter in that position to do better? Your answers to those questions in Nemanja's case may find in his favour, mine find decisively against him.

As for the assists; I've frequently posted the opinion that, when things are in his favour, Nemanja can pick a pass as well as the next professional. It it when things are not in his favour that he frustrates me. When we need someone with the surety of touch, quickness of feet and quality body control to turn a less than perfect situation into an attacking opportunity for our team, Nemanja is not our man. On the majority of occasions that Nemanja comes into possession, a standard, simple, action is exactly what is required and he serves us well in those situations. There are numerous times in each game however where we would benefit from a player with superior attributes and it is those times which make the difference.

We hope to qualify for, and be competitive in, the Champions League next season. We will find it harder to succeed in that ambition if we are not able to select a player to partner Ngolo who is able to help us make the most of those difference making opportunities. Last, but not least, Nemanja is utterly unable to do anything the least bit challenging with his right leg. He avoids that limb in the same way novice tennis players avoid their backhand. For me, an upgrade in his position remains priority number one this summer.