Jump to content
Join Talk Chelsea and join in with the discussions! Click Here

Hull v Chelsea


Jase
 Share
Followers 1

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 304
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

Seeing Moses in all these provisional lineups is hurting my eyes.

Arsenal went with Iwobi and he did well.

Moses might not be your typical fancy player for big club, but this is the problem with this club. Moses isnt big name and no fucking way should he play. Even if Willian is absolutely rubbish, Moses isnt the guy. This thinking. 

Moses did realy good in all games he got chance. He tries hard and wants to prove himself.

The only thing hurting your eyes is players like him not given a chance. 

Now if we had frickin Ronaldo in this team, I would understand, but I dont want Willian or Pedro nowhere near first 11 because they are rubbish atm, so giving Moses a go is not a bad idea at all.

Few years ago, we had Schurrle, Kdb, Luiz in this team, but we said, no not good enough, and decided to play with more established players instead. Im not saying Moses will turn into a top player, but I just hoped the fans and board would realise by now that big name or established player means shit. Moses like those mentioned before is talented enough and shown enough to get a fuckin run. They didnt get one, but like I said I hope the board learned from their mistakes. 

For the future, we still have Christansen, Aina, Charly and Kenedy at the least, but if they dont get chance here, they will get it elsewhere. They will probably play average in first few games, but people should show some fuckin faith for the first time in 10 years here.

We are in shithole situation right now and who knows maybe Moses is gonna be a late bloomer, maybe not. Its not like we have brilliant performers right now, so why not give him a chance? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Arsenal went with Iwobi and he did well.

Moses might not be your typical fancy player for big club, but this is the problem with this club. Moses isnt big name and no fucking way should he play. Even if Willian is absolutely rubbish, Moses isnt the guy. This thinking. 

Moses did realy good in all games he got chance. He tries hard and wants to prove himself.

The only thing hurting your eyes is players like him not given a chance. 

Now if we had frickin Ronaldo in this team, I would understand, but I dont want Willian or Pedro nowhere near first 11 because they are rubbish atm, so giving Moses a go is not a bad idea at all.

Few years ago, we had Schurrle, Kdb, Luiz in this team, but we said, no not good enough, and decided to play with more established players instead. Im not saying Moses will turn into a top player, but I just hoped the fans and board would realise by now that big name or established player means shit. Moses like those mentioned before is talented enough and shown enough to get a fuckin run. They didnt get one, but like I said I hope the board learned from their mistakes. 

For the future, we still have Christansen, Aina, Charly and Kenedy at the least, but if they dont get chance here, they will get it elsewhere. They will probably play average in first few games, but people should show some fuckin faith for the first time in 10 years here.

We are in shithole situation right now and who knows maybe Moses is gonna be a late bloomer, maybe not. Its not like we have brilliant performers right now, so why not give him a chance? 

Got absolutely nothing to do with big name status, Moses is a bang average player Stoke and West Ham passed up the chance to sign.

Just find it rather ironic that we moan about signings like Papy yet champagne Moses.

5 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

He doesnt hit the first man enough for you with his corners?

No, he just isn't good enough for my liking, I'm not even big on Willian either but id rather him at 50% than Moses playing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Tomo said:

Seeing Moses in all these provisional lineups is hurting my eyes.

Agree with you on assessment on Moses but he deserves a shot. Willian is doing far too little (Pedro doesn't do anything at all) and you can't just keep rewarding Willian for predictable and uneffective play. Even average players can perform well for a while and he's shown a willingness and drive to make an impact. No one is saying Moses should play for the rest of the season, not me anyway, but play him once or twice and see what he can do. It's ******* Hull. Light a fire under Willian's arse at the same time by benching him. Or better yet, play him in midfield instead.

Can't stand how comfortable these first XI players are. Hardly any of them deserves it. 'Ivanovic will keep playing because the alternative can't do better'. Oh really, so you've allowed Chelsea to go into the new season with an alternative that's worse than a catastrophic Ivanovic. Good stuff, I hope you all received a big bonus for that.

Chelsea... how the mighty have fallen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We need to start making players realise that if they do not pull their weight they are dropped, no matter who they are. I've had enough of all this rinse and repeat selections, and then that followed up by the same individual shit performances from the same faces.

Work hard, do your job or if not, dropped for someone else.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At least field defenders and midfielders that are capable of playing from the back 😊 Azpi/Willian and Alonso as wingbacks and Kante as our only defensive midfielder. Fabregas and/or Oscar alongside in 3/2 men midfield ;) i am still waiting for 3 at the back because Conte is master of that system ;)

Zouma (when fit), Chalobah, Luiz, Alonso, Terry, Tomori, Azpi ... play 3 of them at the back please ;)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DYC. said:

Agree with you on assessment on Moses but he deserves a shot. Willian is doing far too little (Pedro doesn't do anything at all) and you can't just keep rewarding Willian for predictable and uneffective play. Even average players can perform well for a while and he's shown a willingness and drive to make an impact. No one is saying Moses should play for the rest of the season, not me anyway, but play him once or twice and see what he can do. It's ******* Hull. Light a fire under Willian's arse at the same time by benching him. Or better yet, play him in midfield instead.

That's the problem, we have seen what he can do in the PL for over 6 years and it's not enough for us even at our current state, let alone the level we are trying to return too. If we are to drop Willian i'd genuinely rather do what Simeone did with Costa while Falcao was there and move him to the right and play Bats up front than play Moses, or (if he is capable of playing there, hopefully someone else can put some light on whether he is or no) pull an Anelka on the Belgium.

If Papy was still here and the only back up would people be calling for him to replace Cahill? even at Gary's current state.

3 hours ago, DYC. said:

Can't stand how comfortable these first XI players are. Hardly any of them deserves it. 'Ivanovic will keep playing because the alternative can't do better'. Oh really, so you've allowed Chelsea to go into the new season with an alternative that's worse than a catastrophic Ivanovic. Good stuff, I hope you all received a big bonus for that.

Chelsea... how the mighty have fallen.

I agree, but that's the reality, as soon as JT and Zouma are fit (assuming Kurt recovers well), Cahill won't be sniffing many minutes i can confidently call that, because they are three CBs better than him. I can't give the same confidence with Ivanovic, Willian and Matic, i don't like that its come to this any more than you do, but replacing them for even worse alternatives will probably make our situation even worse (hopefully Alonso will prove enough to drop Ivan, but he hasn't exactly convinced me so far).

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

That's the problem, we have seen what he can do in the PL for over 6 years and it's not enough for us even at our current state, let alone the level we are trying to return too. If we are to drop Willian i'd genuinely rather do what Simeone did with Costa while Falcao was there and move him to the right and play Bats up front than play Moses, or (if he is capable of playing there, hopefully someone else can put some light on whether he is or no) pull an Anelka on the Belgium.

If Papy was still here and the only back up would people be calling for him to replace Cahill? even at Gary's current state.

I agree, but that's the reality, as soon as JT and Zouma are fit (assuming Kurt recovers well), Cahill won't be sniffing many minutes i can confidently call that, because they are three CBs better than him. I can't give the same confidence with Ivanovic, Willian and Matic, i don't like that its come to this any more than you do, but replacing them for even worse alternatives will probably make our situation even worse (hopefully Alonso will prove enough to drop Ivan, but he hasn't exactly convinced me so far).

I still disagree. If things aint working, get creative and/or do what you have to do. Guardiola dropped Hart for the inferior Caballero, he played Kolarov at CB, Silva and De Bruyne as genuine midfielders, didn't keep Bony around and instead put faith in the raw Iheanacho as a deputy for an injury prone Aguero. Yaya Toure would still be playing here just because he's Yaya Toure and what he's capable of on a good day.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DYC. said:

I still disagree. If things aint working, get creative and/or do what you have to do. Guardiola dropped Hart for the inferior Caballero, he played Kolarov at CB, Silva and De Bruyne as genuine midfielders, didn't keep Bony around and instead put faith in the raw Iheanacho as a deputy for an injury prone Aguero. Yaya Toure would still be playing here just because he's Yaya Toure and what he's capable of on a good day.

And as far as getting creative is concerned isn't what i suggested classed as that? And if City had say Fabian Delph and James Milner as the only alternatives im pretty sure Yaya will be playing regardless of form.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

And as far as getting creative is concerned isn't what i suggested classed as that? And if City had say Fabian Delph and James Milner as the only alternatives im pretty sure Yaya will be playing regardless of form.

It is though I'm not a fan of the idea of handing Costa more responsibility with the ball at his feet. Don't think we'll ever see it happening either.

I'm convinced Guardiola would drop Yaya for Milner. Without a doubt. Not too familiar with Delph. And it's not just Yaya. Kolarov played CB ahead of Mangala because he simply wasn't up to standards. Ivanovic would never have survived.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guardiola went to City and was immediately given an open book and identified the players needed and the players who needed chopping. From the point of signing, and the deal being closed the homework will of started, the comings, the goings, the football philosophy and the direction he was taking the club. This blue print and outlook everyone has to buy into, that includes the board, staff, players and by doing this the manager can lay the structure. People are moaning at the likes of Ivanovic, Oscar and Cahill that they aren't good enough, of course they aren't, the three of them haven't been good enough for 2/3 seasons but yet have been allowed to continue because the forward planning every season before summer transfer window has been truly pathetic. Take for example the previous summer.......Rahman, Djiliboji and Miazga, this alongside players like Falcao and Pato on loan.....That for me is nothing short of fucking idiotic business for a club of this size, stature and what we want to achieve. I could see, and a lot of others could see, these players, plus the other three were never going to be the ones to take us to the next level, but the board and manager did, couple that with deadwood in Oscar, Ivanovic, Matic, Pedro, Cahill, Moses and the list goes on.....

Other teams are moving forward by either buying out and out quality, our ex players who were moved on because their face didn't fit or aren't panic buying like the tossers behind the scenes here.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26. 9. 2016 at 6:25 PM, -Kaplan- said:

Why did we play 3-5-2 for a good part of pre-season if we're only going to use it when shit hits the fan? 

Just go for it from the start. 

 

I don't get it either ... Conte is a master of 352 and he should play it! He was doing something similiar with Italian national team, trying different systems to fit all the players but in the end they had big success with 352 ;)

In the end only Terry will come in for Cahill ... :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Tomo said:

Got absolutely nothing to do with big name status, Moses is a bang average player Stoke and West Ham passed up the chance to sign.

Just find it rather ironic that we moan about signings like Papy yet champagne Moses.

He was actualy good for Stoke and I have no idea why they didnt sign him back then (or maybe we wanted more than they offered, who knows)

Papy has nothing to do with this. Moses put good performances every time he played for us this season. Willian's highlight of the season however is walking slowly off the pitch with no fucks given after we are 3:0 down to fucking arsenal.

That rotten attitude can leave the club and I dont care if its Messi himself. There is a reason why we were successful back then without having Ronaldinhos, Kakas, Ronaldos of the world. Because we had players that fucking gave a shit about our club. I will take someone who works hard every time over someone who is some wannabe who thinks that cant get benched.

Willian could be formed into very good player if he adopted. Maybe even in b2b place instead of Oscar. He has work ethic (at least had it), he can press and is good on the ball and can pass. But he is not good in finishing off attacks and dribbling. What we do? Play him as winger who dribbles and tries to finish actions, but ends up fucking every second one. Either he must adopt to different role or he can leave if he thinks he is the second coming of Ronaldinho. Fact is he cant drbble past anyone, he cant make a decent cross, rarely scores and I was actualy fine with that, because at least he worked his ass off. But now he doesnt do that anymore. Playing with 50% every game.

You would take Willian at 50% over someone less talented, but who would give his 100%? Shame. Thats the reason we are in this shit situation right now. Its all about names. Willian is better, more composed on the ball, more experienced, part of winning team 2014 etc etc. And so he should keep playing even if he is now only a shadow of himself and there is someone else on bench who is actualy doing better? Nah.

Courtois walked straight into team without proving himself against Cech, and that been ever since. And look where he is now. Half the player he was when he was in atletico where he would get replaced with that attitude in a second.

At the least he should be benched so he gets a fucking message that he needs to work to be in 11, that he needs to get his arse back to 100%. Maybe few games on bench will give him boost to perform better. If yes, win for us. If not, then he can fuck off to another club to give his 50% in every game. He aint exceptional player like Eden to get this kind of bonuses.

Same applies to all other players.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

He was actualy good for Stoke and I have no idea why they didnt sign him back then (or maybe we wanted more than they offered, who knows)

Papy has nothing to do with this. Moses put good performances every time he played for us this season. Willian's highlight of the season however is walking slowly off the pitch with no fucks given after we are 3:0 down to fucking arsenal.

That rotten attitude can leave the club and I dont care if its Messi himself. There is a reason why we were successful back then without having Ronaldinhos, Kakas, Ronaldos of the world. Because we had players that fucking gave a shit about our club. I will take someone who works hard every time over someone who is some wannabe who thinks that cant get benched.

He started all right like he does every season, he keeps himself in shape in the off season (fair play to him for that), which is why he is great in pre season and good when the season starts, as soon as the others catch up, that's when he disappears without trace. Papy has everything to do with this, because like Moses, I don't believe he is good enough to play for Chelsea, also I have no doubt Papy would have given 100% if given the chance, would that have stopped fans mocking him and giving him shit? I very much doubt it.

Also lets not pretend our 2004-2012 bunch were walking off sweating blood and tears every single game, they did a lot of amazing things for the club and will be forever a part of our history, but there were times the attitude of the players were questionable at best, most notably under Scolari, the duration of 10-11 and 11-12 until the last two months when they saw the CL in sight, the fact some of the current lot have sunk even lower attitude wise has seemed to create the particular myth that everything was all garden and roses for the whole eight years, it wasn't.

9 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

You would take Willian at 50% over someone less talented, but who would give his 100%? Shame. Thats the reason we are in this shit situation right now. Its all about names. Willian is better, more composed on the ball, more experienced, part of winning team 2014 etc etc. And so he should keep playing even if he is now only a shadow of himself and there is someone else on bench who is actualy doing better? Nah.

No it's not the reason we are in this shit situation right now, and playing someone who has proven not good enough at PL is going to improve it how? Like ive already alluded too Papy would also give 100% and yes id rather keep Cahill playing than entertain the idea of Papy playing for us.

9 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Courtois walked straight into team without proving himself against Cech, and that been ever since. And look where he is now. Half the player he was when he was in atletico where he would get replaced with that attitude in a second.

Courtois came into the team because of four almost flawless season's previous while Cech was floundering, Cech hasn't had a world class season since 10-11 and he hasn't been exactly setting the world alight at Arsenal either, a fair chunk of Arsenal supporters want him dropped for Ospina. I can understand some arguments for choosing Cech, the leadership part especially, but every time Tibo makes a mistake people act like we let go a flawless keeper, if Petr stayed and made some of the error's he has for Arsenal, the meltdown on the Courtois thread would make the KDB and Sturridge (in 2013) one's look calm and rational.

9 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

At the least he should be benched so he gets a fucking message that he needs to work to be in 11, that he needs to get his arse back to 100%. Maybe few games on bench will give him boost to perform better. If yes, win for us. If not, then he can fuck off to another club to give his 50% in every game. He aint exceptional player like Eden to get this kind of bonuses.

Same applies to all other players.

I would happily see him dropped if the replacement was even remotely good enough, which Moses isn't. If he was going to try Costa on the right and Bats up front vs Hull (Costa has played that role before) or vice versa (if Bats can play that), I wouldn't mind, might go wrong but might work. Moses won't work, he's not good and he seems to be the new squad player pet project that fans try and make sound better than he is actually is (last year it was Remy, year before Schurrle, year before that Bertrand etc).

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tomo said:

He started all right like he does every season, he keeps himself in shape in the off season (fair play to him for that), which is why he is great in pre season and good when the season starts, as soon as the others catch up, that's when he disappears without trace. Papy has everything to do with this, because like Moses, I don't believe he is good enough to play for Chelsea, also I have no doubt Papy would have given 100% if given the chance, would that have stopped fans mocking him and giving him shit? I very much doubt it.

Also lets not pretend our 2004-2012 bunch were walking off sweating blood and tears every single game, they did a lot of amazing things for the club and will be forever a part of our history, but there were times the attitude of the players were questionable at best, most notably under Scolari, the duration of 10-11 and 11-12 until the last two months when they saw the CL in sight, the fact some of the current lot have sunk even lower attitude wise has seemed to create the particular myth that everything was all garden and roses for the whole eight years, it wasn't.

No it's not the reason we are in this shit situation right now, and playing someone who has proven not good enough at PL is going to improve it how? Like ive already alluded too Papy would also give 100% and yes id rather keep Cahill playing than entertain the idea of Papy playing for us.

Courtois came into the team because of four almost flawless season's previous while Cech was floundering, Cech hasn't had a world class season since 10-11 and he hasn't been exactly setting the world alight at Arsenal either, a fair chunk of Arsenal supporters want him dropped for Ospina. I can understand some arguments for choosing Cech, the leadership part especially, but every time Tibo makes a mistake people act like we let go a flawless keeper, if Petr stayed and made some of the error's he has for Arsenal, the meltdown on the Courtois thread would make the KDB and Sturridge (in 2013) one's look calm and rational.

I would happily see him dropped if the replacement was even remotely good enough, which Moses isn't. If he was going to try Costa on the right and Bats up front vs Hull (Costa has played that role before) or vice versa (if Bats can play that), I wouldn't mind, might go wrong but might work. Moses won't work, he's not good and he seems to be the new squad player pet project that fans try and make sound better than he is actually is (last year it was Remy, year before Schurrle, year before that Bertrand etc).

Well its funny because Schurrle and Bertrand are doing better than those who replaced them and were supposed to be better 

Fair share of people also said that Luis wasnt good enough and didnt realy complain with sale until he beasted again for Atletico.

There is a reason why we are so poor for past 8 years or so, with exception of few runs. 

Because people have this perception that Cahill, Willian etc are still very good players, much better than the likes of previously mentioned Moses or Schurrle, Bertrand etc...its a myth. 

But no one has the balls to bench them because of their status or lack of trust in other players.

No, Papy has no place in comparisson with Moses. Papy didnt play well for us even last year, I would prefer Cahill ahead. Even if he gave 100, he didnt show anything. Moses had good season at stoke, and now few good games this season. He did better than Willian IMO, and thats all that matters when deciding who to pick for next match.

Im going completely off topic, but last season Pep bought Coman to bayern, after Coman had pretty poor spells at juve and Psg. Regardless, Ribery and Robben were injured and bit out of form later, and Pep gave chance to Coman still. Didnt matter how big Robbery was, Coman was given a fair chance. And thats all there is. Kenedy would never get that chance and even if Willian was in worst form of his life. 

Its not just about Moses. Its about sending message to these players that they better get their shit together or they can leave. Moses might not be brilliant, like u said, but he 1.) Deserves a chance and 2.) Willian deserves to be benched.

Like with your Yaya example, Willian is similar. Pep would never play Yaya even if he only had Delph available as alternative. He would also rather play Moses than Willian who clearly doesnt give fuck atm (and like I said, this applies to rest of the team too). Tbh Pep would buy Willians replacement in summer, but thats not the point.

I just dont get it why are people so against benching underperforming players. Like if you were scared we will play even worse, when in fact looking at last three games, we almost cant play worse. I dont know why such lack of faith in other players. Then you complain why we sold this guy and that guy...but you never want to take some risks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Well its funny because Schurrle and Bertrand are doing better than those who replaced them and were supposed to be better 

Fair share of people also said that Luis wasnt good enough and didnt realy complain with sale until he beasted again for Atletico.

160516_NS500699_0022_AH7257BGXY_A163.csv

Because people have this perception that Cahill, Willian etc are still very good players, much better than the likes of previously mentioned Moses or Schurrle, Bertrand etc...its a myth. 

But no one has the balls to bench them because of their status or lack of trust in other players.

No, Papy has no place in comparisson with Moses. Papy didnt play well for us even last year, I would prefer Cahill ahead. Even if he gave 100, he didnt show anything. Moses had good season at stoke, and now few good games this season. He did better than Willian IMO, and thats all that matters when deciding who to pick for next match.

Im going completely off topic, but last season Pep bought Coman to bayern, after Coman had pretty poor spells at juve and Psg. Regardless, Ribery and Robben were injured and bit out of form later, and Pep gave chance to Coman still. Didnt matter how big Robbery was, Coman was given a fair chance. And thats all there is. Kenedy would never get that chance and even if Willian was in worst form of his life. 

Its not just about Moses. Its about sending message to these players that they better get their shit together or they can leave. Moses might not be brilliant, like u said, but he 1.) Deserves a chance and 2.) Willian deserves to be benched.

Like with your Yaya example, Willian is similar. Pep would never play Yaya even if he only had Delph available as alternative. He would also rather play Moses than Willian who clearly doesnt give fuck atm (and like I said, this applies to rest of the team too). Tbh Pep would buy Willians replacement in summer, but thats not the point.

I just dont get it why are people so against benching underperforming players. Like if you were scared we will play even worse, when in fact looking at last three games, we almost cant play worse. I dont know why such lack of faith in other players. Then you complain why we sold this guy and that guy...but you never want to take some risks.

The problem is we don't have the patience. We expect somebody from the Youth or someone who hasn't started for us to suddenly produce a performance of his life. Even if he did, like all of us they are human. Not everyone can perform at peek match after match ( although that is what separates normal from exceptional) and the remedy is "rotation". Something we have been screaming for ages and none of the managers seem to have the gut to pull that one off.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...