N'Golo Kante

[Tomo 21,733]

He needs to be managed like Cesc was under Conte, it's utterly outrageous bordering unbearable that he always plays when fit. What's even more frustrating is that if we leave him out of games that don't suit him he'll be in better condition to impact games which do. 

He shouldn't sniff the starting in Russia or Burnley, bring him on late in both if we're winning to help us defend what we've got and then we'll get a fresh Kante vs Rennes. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Our midfield is rather thin on all fronts, 1 injury and we fucked

[DANILA 290]

His career at a top club is sadly over

[killer1257 3,282]

Funny thing is that he still has crazy stats. Has the most interceptions in the PL

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[communicate 2,703]

20 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Funny thing is that he still has crazy stats. Has the most interceptions in the PL

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Because it does not take a genius to understand how important Kante is for us. It is so bizzare reading criticism on Kante. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,318]

21 minutes ago, communicate said:

Because it does not take a genius to understand how important Kante is for us. It is so bizzare reading criticism on Kante. 

When Kante cannot make a simple pass forward, criticism is justified. 

 

[Vesper 29,012]

On 26/10/2020 at 4:11 PM, communicate said:

Because it does not take a genius to understand how important Kante is for us. It is so bizzare reading criticism on Kante. 

I truly have to believe that, at this point, you are just having a laugh

Kante's passing is now amongst the worst I have ever seen for a regularly starting MF'er for us

no clue what happened, but he is a black hole offensively 95% of the time

the Kante defenders are like abused spouses, they just keep coming back for more as they think their love can change things, even though most weeks they are just getting the shit kicked out of them

Zouma too, he is even worse tan Kante at on the ball play

Kante is soon 30yo (around 5 months), and we will (if we even sell him), end up getting probably close to £100m (£80m less for sure) less than we could have at peak value

no sale in 2021 equals FOR SURE we get £100m less

we desperately need 2 WC CB's (Thiago cannot go on forever as magnificent as he is, even at 36) and a WC DMF

IF Zakaria is as badly wrecked as one of the posters here claims, then we are down to Rice as the only truly top traditional DMF option out there

he will cost damn near 80m, 70m if we are lucky

add in the two CB's, we are looking at another £200m+ spend

and that doesn't even address a great roamer type DMF (in my dreams Camavinga) for a double pivot, nor a CMF (Camavinga can play there as well, so he is a two-fer, yet another reason I LOVE the lad)

BUT our dregs to sell are either rapidly ageing out, or contracts are winding down, or both, so money is going to be tight unless Roman just says FUCK FFP, FOAD UEFA

[communicate 2,703]

15 hours ago, Vesper said:

I truly have to believe that, at this point, you are just having a laugh

Kante's passing is now amongst the worst I have ever seen for a regularly starting MF'er for us

no clue what happened, but he is a black hole offensively 95% of the time

the Kante defenders are like abused spouses, they just keep coming back for more as they think their love can change things, even though most weeks they are just getting the shit kicked out of them

Zouma too, he is even worse tan Kante at on the ball play

Kante is soon 30yo (around 5 months), and we will (if we even sell him), end up getting probably close to £100m (£80m less for sure) less than we could have at peak value

no sale in 2021 equals FOR SURE we get £100m less

we desperately need 2 WC CB's (Thiago cannot go on forever as magnificent as he is, even at 36) and a WC DMF

IF Zakaria is as badly wrecked as one of the posters here claims, then we are down to Rice as the only truly top traditional DMF option out there

he will cost damn near 80m, 70m if we are lucky

add in the two CB's, we are looking at another £200m+ spend

and that doesn't even address a great roamer type DMF (in my dreams Camavinga) for a double pivot, nor a CMF (Camavinga can play there as well, so he is a two-fer, yet another reason I LOVE the lad)

BUT our dregs to sell are either rapidly ageing out, or contracts are winding down, or both, so money is going to be tight unless Roman just says FUCK FFP, FOAD UEFA

I absolutely disagree with this. Kante is past his prime that is obvious but he is still a terrific ballwiner. 

The question that I want to know what do you want our midfield to do ? 

Probably what do you want them to do is the wrong question, the better question is with the makeup of our team what do you think they need to do. 

[Vesper 29,012]

48 minutes ago, communicate said:

I absolutely disagree with this. Kante is past his prime that is obvious but he is still a terrific ballwiner. 

The question that I want to know what do you want our midfield to do ? 

Probably what do you want them to do is the wrong question, the better question is with the makeup of our team what do you think they need to do. 

Kante should have been sold, and needs to be sold. He and Jorginho (who needs to be sold even more now that we have shit away an insane amount of Kante's value so if we do not sell Kante in 2021, he is damn near £100m less in value than a few years before) are a fucking disaster as a double pivot. One can't pass and the other can't defend  and both are shit under pressure in terms of ball retention.

I can see that I will simply be at war (not my choice but I am not going to back down, as I am right, and to back down when one is right is illogical, and I am a logic-driven being) with a few on here as long as Kante and Zouma remain.

I really have to laugh at some who accuse Lampard of being obsessed with Mount when they act the same with Kante. The best we can hope for now is for Kante to sit in front of the CB's, Jorginho to sit his arse on the bench, and we all pray that Kante and Zouma do not ratfuck us with their shit poor passing (and Zoumas dribbling lack of skills).

[The Skipper 20,593]

3 hours ago, Vesper said:

Kante should have been sold, and needs to be sold. He and Jorginho (who needs to be sold even more now that we have shit away an insane amount of Kante's value so if we do not sell Kante in 2021, he is damn near £100m less in value than a few years before) are a fucking disaster as a double pivot. One can't pass and the other can't defend  and both are shit under pressure in terms of ball retention.

I can see that I will simply be at war (not my choice but I am not going to back down, as I am right, and to back down when one is right is illogical, and I am a logic-driven being) with a few on here as long as Kante and Zouma remain.

I really have to laugh at some who accuse Lampard of being obsessed with Mount when they act the same with Kante. The best we can hope for now is for Kante to sit in front of the CB's, Jorginho to sit his arse on the bench, and we all pray that Kante and Zouma do not ratfuck us with their shit poor passing (and Zoumas dribbling lack of skills).

It's pretty simple, we know their weaknesses (Zouma and Kanté) but they're still the best options for us there as it stands, so we should support them. They still do some things very very well. Zouma is one of the best CBs in the world in the air, and is probably our best pure defender after Silva. Kanté's defensive awareness and ability to close spaces and make tackles and interceptions is also real quality. It's what we have right now. Kanté has also been an excellent player for the club overall, is a world cup champion, and won the league with Leicester. Understandably people have more patience for a player who has this sort of pedigree. 

I have said in other threads that Kanté doesn't really perfectly suit our ideally balanced midfield but that doesn't mean he's a bad player automatically. Same with Zouma who's only weakness is his comfort levels on the ball. Apart from that he's actually a pretty good defender. 

Who else should we play in these positions as it stands? They're literally our best options there. 

[Vesper 29,012]

7 hours ago, The Skipper said:

It's pretty simple, we know their weaknesses (Zouma and Kanté) but they're still the best options for us there as it stands, so we should support them. They still do some things very very well. Zouma is one of the best CBs in the world in the air, and is probably our best pure defender after Silva. Kanté's defensive awareness and ability to close spaces and make tackles and interceptions is also real quality. It's what we have right now. Kanté has also been an excellent player for the club overall, is a world cup champion, and won the league with Leicester. Understandably people have more patience for a player who has this sort of pedigree. 

I have said in other threads that Kanté doesn't really perfectly suit our ideally balanced midfield but that doesn't mean he's a bad player automatically. Same with Zouma who's only weakness is his comfort levels on the ball. Apart from that he's actually a pretty good defender. 

Who else should we play in these positions as it stands? They're literally our best options there. 

I am aware that we are stuck with them atm, and Kante, IF he is utilised correctly, is far far far from a poor player. But it is up to Lampard to use him correctly. My whole thing is that they need to be sold, including in the past, not that they lack some positive attributes. We just need to put Kante in a place where he does more damage to the other team (which he is extremely capable of doing), and limited his chances to make errant passes or clog up build-play. Zouma is great in the air defensively, but his offense headers are meh. and my heart skips a beat at times when he lumbers about with the ball.

[lucio 5,418]

8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I am aware that we are stuck with them atm, and Kante, IF he is utilised correctly, is far far far from a poor player. But it is up to Lampard to use him correctly. My whole thing is that they need to be sold, including in the past, not that they lack some positive attributes. We just need to put Kante in a place where he does more damage to the other team (which he is extremely capable of doing), and limited his chances to make errant passes or clog up build-play. Zouma is great in the air defensively, but his offense headers are meh. and my heart skips a beat at times when he lumbers about with the ball.

What would your midfield set up be at the moment? 

[Vesper 29,012]

26 minutes ago, lucio said:

What would your midfield set up be at the moment? 

Kante sitting deep in front of the back 4 in the middle, IF we are going to play him

Kovacic and Havertz in front of Kante (or Mount in for Kova), with Havertz the more forward of the 2

Puli at LW

Werner at CF

Ziyech at RW

 

or

my 3-1-3-3 that no one ever tries (and width would not be an issue, and there are other formations being used by teams with less width overall)

 

GK Mendy

LCB Chilwell (many many left backs/right backs now play CB in a back 3) (backup options Rudiger or Zouma)

MCB Thiago backup option AC

RCB Reece (he has played CB many times in the past) or Azpi or Tomori

sweeper(deep destroyer Kante (who can slide side to side depending on game flow) or even, Reece here as I thik he is technical enough to play DMF, although we lose his crosses then, which he still can do as ab overlapping RCB

Left CMF Mount (they can rotate sides)

Right CMF Kovacic (they can rotate sides) Gilmour as an option when healthy for either side

AMF Havertz with Havertz and Mount as options

LW Puli  CHO as backup

RW Ziyech   CHO as backup 

CF Werner with Tammy and girous as backups

 

Jorginho, flushed, sorry m8 he is not going to work anywhere in this

 

 

 

 

 

[Vesper 29,012]

Sarri's long term damage is significant

he fucked up Kante (at multiple levels)

he saddled us with one of the top 5 'white elephants' in the world in Jorginho

he demanded we keep Alonso and Emerson (I will NEVER forget Sarri's gaslighting when he claimed Alonso was the best LB in Europe, ffs)

he refused to play CHO much, then when the dam broke, he played him too much all at once, which lead to his Achilles injury (not just from going from no play to massive play in a zero to 60 manner, BUT, I truly believe CHO over-tried as he was so desperate to prove himself)

and (I was not the one who posited this, BUT if true, then damn him to eternal hell) he was a huge fan of bringing in Kepa

[Simon1991 231]

6 hours ago, Vesper said:

I am aware that we are stuck with them atm, and Kante, IF he is utilised correctly, is far far far from a poor player. But it is up to Lampard to use him correctly. My whole thing is that they need to be sold, including in the past, not that they lack some positive attributes. We just need to put Kante in a place where he does more damage to the other team (which he is extremely capable of doing), and limited his chances to make errant passes or clog up build-play. Zouma is great in the air defensively, but his offense headers are meh. and my heart skips a beat at times when he lumbers about with the ball.

Zouma is not elegant on the ball that's for sure, but how many times did his technical limitations actually cost us? He just had a few mistakes recently but that's the exception rather than then norm.

His passing isn't beautiful, but it's actually not THAT bad as some people (you among others) are trying to make it look. Tomori or Christensen for instance have had far more technical mistakes than Zouma.

 

[Yeboii 1,844]

2 minutes ago, Simon1991 said:

Zouma is not elegant on the ball that's for sure, but how many times did his technical limitations actually cost us? He just had a few mistakes recently but that's the exception rather than then norm.

His passing isn't beautiful, but it's actually not THAT bad as some people (you among others) are trying to make it look. Tomori or Christensen for instance have had far more technical mistakes than Zouma.

 

Yeah Zouma is pretty slow at passing, but sometimes he can pull off some good ones. He also isn't afraid of just banging it in the air when he is trouble.

[NikkiCFC 8,049]

I criticized him heavily at the beginning of last season and blamed him for a lot of goals we conceded but in the last around 12 months he improved his game massively. He was by far our best CB in this period. 

This season that bad pass for Kepa was his only mistake, before that I think his last bad game was Everton last December. 

Dont get me wrong, we can upgrade on him on the market but Zouma > Rudi, Chris, Tomori without a doubt.

I mean, play him with Chris he would probably look like shit again but it is just that he works very nicely with Rudi or Silva (still did not conceded a goal with these combos in 8 games).

And if my CBs give me clean sheet that is all I care for. That means we have to score just once to win the game and we have so much offensive potential right now.

[OneMoSalah 8,783]

9 hours ago, Vesper said:

Sarri's long term damage is significant

he fucked up Kante (at multiple levels)

he saddled us with one of the top 5 'white elephants' in the world in Jorginho

he demanded we keep Alonso and Emerson (I will NEVER forget Sarri's gaslighting when he claimed Alonso was the best LB in Europe, ffs)

he refused to play CHO much, then when the dam broke, he played him too much all at once, which lead to his Achilles injury (not just from going from no play to massive play in a zero to 60 manner, BUT, I truly believe CHO over-tried as he was so desperate to prove himself)

and (I was not the one who posited this, BUT if true, then damn him to eternal hell) he was a huge fan of bringing in Kepa

Sarri gets a lot of criticism but Kante played some of his best football here under Sarri IMO. Bar the Conte title winning season where else did he play as well as he did at times with Sarri? Certainly not in Antonio’s 2nd season and he’s regressed hugely with Frank IMO. Or are people going to claim he was a one season wonder now? His all round game came on considerably but nobody ever says it and he built on the progress with the ball he made under Antonio particularly in the first season. He was moulded into the sort of role Allan had at Napoli under Sarri. It wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea but he has never been a number 6 yet half the English media and undoubtedly half the Chelsea fan base jumped on this bandwagon for a while which youd think having seen him play as more of a box to box midfielder; was criminal. 

The CHO criticism is also ridiculously overstated. Name me a PL game under Sarri that Callum did anything of note in? It was all pre season and Europa games against poor opposition he looked good, not the PL games where he looked ordinary. RLC was the guy who should have played more in my eyes under Maurizio.

Again Kepa in his first season, everyone was more than happy. He should of progressed but he has regressed for whatever reason but after his first 12 months there is no way anyone seen his development going this poorly but people also said Courtois was done despite being the 3/4th top GK in the world so I am not surprised anymore. Its biting us now but 2 years ago I know a lot of folk on here where more than happy with Kepa which would indicate there is more to his downturn in form than him being pure and utter shit.