Ricardo Rodriguez

[The Skipper 20,593]

He has good potential and could develop into one of the Premier leagues best but right now paying over £20m for him is nuts... Just my opinion though

How much is he worth to you then? I think Luke is probably worth £15m at most but because of the 'English player tax' his value slightly rises - but it doesn't matter because he is definitely worth it IMO, not because of potential but because of where he's at right now.

I've stopped looking at him as a young kid with potential... He's already one of the best left backs in the PL. Second best English left back only behind Baines right now IMO.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

How much is he worth to you then? I think Luke is probably worth £15m at most but because of the 'English player tax' his value slightly rises - but it doesn't matter because he is definitely worth it IMO, not because of potential but because of where he's at right now.

I've stopped looking at him as a young kid with potential... He's already one of the best left backs in the PL. Second best English left back only behind Baines right now IMO.

actual value? Shaw is definitely not close to as good as Azpilicueta but since he's English I'd say he's in and around £15M. His actual Value right now though... £10M

He doesn't win a lot of tackles, doesn't disrupt the attack at all(with interceptions)... What he does do well is get by his man and has decent pace. I'm not against signing him but lets not get carried away, the things he does well are not elite and its hard to gauge what that will be like in a few years.

[didierforever 7,349]

Why can't we have both? Luke Shaw is young and Rodriguez is nearing his prime years. Also lets not forget Shaw isn't tested at a very high level, he is looking good for Southampton but is he good enough for Europe?

Rodriguez is without a doubt the better LB but I like the fact that Shaw is homegrown and a Chelsea supporter... I say grab both and allow them to duke it out for minutes

Simply can't see it happening. Jose likes a constant back 4. He builds all his teams on a solif back 4. Plus spending 40+ mil on 2 left backs who might very well sit out most of the season with iva-azpi being our 2 main full vacks is just a waste.

If I had to predict, then I ll say

Rb- iva/azpi

Lb- azpi/shaw

With one of the yiuth players (like ake/kalas) as the replacement.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Simply can't see it happening. Jose likes a constant back 4. He builds all his teams on a solif back 4. Plus spending 40+ mil on 2 left backs who might very well sit out most of the season with iva-azpi being our 2 main full vacks is just a waste.

If I had to predict, then I ll say

Rb- iva/azpi

Lb- azpi/shaw

With one of the yiuth players (like ake/kalas) as the replacement.

You could be right. I'm not saying spend 40+m on the two either, I think that number is inflated.

Cole is pretty much gone and Azpi is playing out of position because he is good. That doesn't mean he stays there for the rest of his career, I would imagine we definitely buy one LB who is ready to start in Europe now and have another who has the potential to be great in a few years, while we use Azpi as a secondary bridge for our young LB.

Also Brana can't play RB forever especially the way the game is being played now.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Maybe I'm missing something, what is it that Shaw does at a world class level? how many games has he played in Europe? aren't those prerequisites for guys to command £20m at LB?

Nope. What had Rodriguez done at the age of 18? Oh right, fuck all. He was still playing in Switzerland at the same age Shaw is playing in a proper league.

You can make the argument that Rodriguez is one of the top 5 LB's in the world right now with room to grow he does just about everything better than Shaw(and yes I have seen him play A LOT)

I can't make that argument, but that's just because I don't believe it. You're welcome to.

The age doesn't matter either England is not exactly producing the best talent around the world and furthermore its a midseason friendly... If he can hold down a regular spot with England that would be fantastic but at current its his first cap and its unlikely he will even play... We'll see.

He should be ahead of Cole and maybe even Baines. That's not bad for a player of only 18 and despite England being poor at the moment getting where he has so quickly is not to be sniffed at.

As far as him being English and a Chelsea supporter I've already said I love that, its not going to possess me to go above and beyond what he's actually worth though. He has good potential and could develop into one of the Premier leagues best but right now paying over £20m for him is nuts... Just my opinion though

We need homegrown players. It's as simple as that and we need a left-back. He's proven himself in the league already and he's only going to get better which is why every top club is looking at him.

I fail to see where that actually impacts what I've said, most games are still won and lost in the middle of the pitch. What is the most a LB or RB was ever sold for? of course the position is vital but is it more valuable than a DM, CB, CF? History says no.

Yes but that doesn't detract from what I've said either, I agree, it doesn't mean you spend upwards of 25m for a LB's potential though

I can't even think where to begin answering this without it sounding patronising and like I'm explaining the game of football to someone unfamiliar with it. The game is more complex than looking at action areas on a graph. For Hazard to work his magic he needs runners and he needs space, space created by players making the pitch bigger.....

I can't be bothered.

He doesn't win a lot of tackles, doesn't disrupt the attack at all(with interceptions)...

This post bought to you by whoscored.com.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Nope. What had Rodriguez done at the age of 18? Oh right, fuck all. He was still playing in Switzerland at the same age Shaw is playing in a proper league.

I can't make that argument, but that's just because I don't believe it. You're welcome to.

He should be ahead of Cole and maybe even Baines. That's not bad for a player of only 18 and despite England being poor at the moment getting where he has so quickly is not to be sniffed at.

We need homegrown players. It's as simple as that and we need a left-back. He's proven himself in the league already and he's only going to get better which is why every top club is looking at him.

I can't even think where to begin answering this without it sounding patronising and like I'm explaining the game of football to someone unfamiliar with it. The game is more complex than looking at action areas on a graph. For Hazard to work his magic he needs runners and he needs space, space created by players making the pitch bigger.....

I can't be bothered.

This post bought to you by whoscored.com.

Dude, there is no need for insults... If you wanna carry on like a little baby don't bother replying to my post. If you wanna have real dialogue and real debate please refrain from the kiddie comments. I like Shaw I think he has decent potential but its just potential right now...

The reason why we're looking at Rodriguez is because he has matured into one of the best in the world right now. People develop at different rates, some show early potential and never realize it, others bloom later and never look back. It is a ridiculous debate to engage in when you say "look at what so and so did when he was 18 vs. this guy at the same age" everyone is different.

That's more than fine for me, I've watched him a lot and he IS right up there as far as LB's go...

Okay you rate him higher than Baines and Cole... gotcha, no need to carry on this conversation then.

He is good!! we aren't debating the merits of how good Luke Shaw is! Its whether he's good enough to command over £20m at the age of 18... I don't think that's where his value lies and there are no guarantees on potential he could very well be playing the best football of his career right now.

You have already been patronizing and haven't proven anything. LB and RB are important positions on the pitch just not AS important as other positions on the pitch... Put it this way Real Madrid, one of the top teams in the world played Michael Essien at RB last year...

Fullbacks are used more like wingers now too.

again, with your 'holier than thou' bullshit... How old are you anyway?

[didierforever 7,349]

You could be right. I'm not saying spend 40+m on the two either, I think that number is inflated.

Cole is pretty much gone and Azpi is playing out of position because he is good. That doesn't mean he stays there for the rest of his career, I would imagine we definitely buy one LB who is ready to start in Europe now and have another who has the potential to be great in a few years, while we use Azpi as a secondary bridge for our young LB.

Also Brana can't play RB forever especially the way the game is being played now.

I totally agree. Special on the iva part. I love that guy and his passion but he is more of a cb than rb. Also on the left and iva on thw right means their simply won't be balls in thw box from either flanks. But I think jose looks prettty set up on iva.

Plus I think its also the way jose sees as things right Now. Don't think that he considers azpi solely as a rb playing out of position. Azpi just might be our consistebt lb while shaw be our next gen guy.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I totally agree. Special on the iva part. I love that guy and his passion but he is more of a cb than rb. Also on the left and iva on thw right means their simply won't be balls in thw box from either flanks. But I think jose looks prettty set up on iva.

Plus I think its also the way jose sees as things right Now. Don't think that he considers azpi solely as a rb playing out of position. Azpi just might be our consistebt lb while shaw be our next gen guy.

Just my opinion but I wonder if the reason Azpi is playing LB has more to do with Cole's decline rather than Brana's ascension? I mean if you rank our FB's I'd say its

Azpi

Brana

Cole

Its definitely easier to convert a RB to LB than to convert a CB to a RB to a LB...

I believe we're using Azpi at LB until we can get one in the next window which will allow Azpi to play RB and Brana to be our Utility defender...

[The only place to be 11,313]

You have already been patronizing and haven't proven anything. LB and RB are important positions on the pitch just not AS important as other positions on the pitch... Put it this way Real Madrid, one of the top teams in the world played Michael Essien at RB last year...

And what did Real Madrid win last year?

Underestimating the importance of positions because games are won in the middle of the park (when they can also be lost on the flanks) is ridiculous in my view. It's when you get stability in those positions that you get really good teams, and in Shaw and Azpi we'd be set for a decade.

Now you might think Rodriguez is better, and at this point in time he may well be. But Shaw has come on in leaps and bounds over the last couple of years to the point where he's made the national squad by the age of 18. I don't see any reason why that shouldn't continue, especially with his work ethic. Physically he's way beyond his years and his technique is good too.

But it comes back to who he is that's key for me. I honestly don't care if he's a bit behind a guy who is 3 years older and who has never played in the Premier League before. Luke Shaw supports Chelsea and he's English, and that actually matters. It matters to the point where I'd be happy for the club to pay a premium for him.

As for my age, well I'm old enough to have seen enough Darren Barnards, Anthony Barness's, Jon Harley's, Terry Phelans, Graeme Le Sauxs and Ashley Coles for me to look at Luke Shaw and think he's got everything it takes to be a Chelsea and England legend if he continues as he has done. He is the one guy I'd be gutted to see go to another English club.

[Shane 2,275]

Shaw is English which makes him home-grown for Champions League, a huge asset.

He's been one of the best left backs in the Premiership this season where Rodriguez hasn't played in it yet.

Shaw is a Chelsea fan, it's his dream to play for the club which you can bank that he'll always show passion and up for the fight.

Can't believe people are even discussing which one to go for.

[didierforever 7,349]

Just my opinion but I wonder if the reason Azpi is playing LB has more to do with Cole's decline rather than Brana's ascension? I mean if you rank our FB's I'd say its

Azpi

Brana

Cole

Its definitely easier to convert a RB to LB than to convert a CB to a RB to a LB...

I believe we're using Azpi at LB until we can get one in the next window which will allow Azpi to play RB and Brana to be our Utility defender...

Maybe but lets not forget that jose still played iva as a rv even when he continued to play a hapless cole week in and week out at the start of the season. Iva pretty much looks like jose's no. 1 rb.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

And what did Real Madrid win last year?

Underestimating the importance of positions because games are won in the middle of the park (when they can also be lost on the flanks) is ridiculous in my view. It's when you get stability in those positions that you get really good teams, and in Shaw and Azpi we'd be set for a decade.

Now you might think Rodriguez is better, and at this point in time he may well be. But Shaw has come on in leaps and bounds over the last couple of years to the point where he's made the national squad by the age of 18. I don't see any reason why that shouldn't continue, indeed his work ethic is incredibly good. Physically he's way beyond his years and his technique is good too.

But it comes back to who he is that's key for me. I honestly don't care if he's a bit behind a guy who is 3 years older and who has never played in the Premier League before. Luke Shaw supports Chelsea and he's English, and that actually matters. It matters to the point where I'd be happy for the club to pay a premium for him.

As for my age, well I'm old enough to have seen enough Darren Barnards, Anthony Barness's, Jon Harley's, Terry Phelans, Graeme Le Sauxs and Ashley Coles for me to look at Luke Shaw and think he's got everything it takes to be a Chelsea and England legend if he continues as he has done. He is the one guy I'd be gutted to see go to another English club.

So now because one of the best teams in the world last year didn't win a trophy is solely because Essien played RB for them? There can only be one winner they fell short, I doubt thats because of Essien... but I digress.

We'd also be set with Azpi and Rodriguez, probably even more so if you were to ask me! But to address the first part of your statement, I swear its like you're only seeing half of what I wrote. The FB position is important... Its just not the most valuable position on the pitch. I have never seen a LB go to any team for more than 30M its just the truth.

Okay so for you Shaw is the better by because he is EPL trained and a Chelsea supporter? To me, the whole EPL trained thing is overused. The best players in the EPL aren't EPL trained. Its about buying value which is what we've done since the Torres debacle. I love the fact Shaw is a Chelsea supporter, I want him! I just don't want him for anywhere near 20m. If it comes down to paying that for a LB I'll take the current form player over the potential player any day of the week.

Cool, lets just carry on conversing at the level of our age group. I don't believe in paying over the odds on potential... Had this been 2009? SURE sign him up!!! But now, Sorry 20M for a LB with potential is madness... He will be good, of that I have no doubt, its just whether he is good enough to be world class and if he can be considered the best at his position now. I'm just not sure.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Maybe but lets not forget that jose still played iva as a rv even when he continued to play a hapless cole week in and week out at the start of the season. Iva pretty much looks like jose's no. 1 rb.

You could be right. I'm just not sure...

[The only place to be 11,313]

So now because one of the best teams in the world last year didn't win a trophy is solely because Essien played RB for them? There can only be one winner they fell short, I doubt thats because of Essien... but I digress.

We'd also be set with Azpi and Rodriguez, probably even more so if you were to ask me! But to address the first part of your statement, I swear its like you're only seeing half of what I wrote. The FB position is important... Its just not the most valuable position on the pitch. I have never seen a LB go to any team for more than 30M its just the truth.

Okay so for you Shaw is the better by because he is EPL trained and a Chelsea supporter? To me, the whole EPL trained thing is overused. The best players in the EPL aren't EPL trained. Its about buying value which is what we've done since the Torres debacle. I love the fact Shaw is a Chelsea supporter, I want him! I just don't want him for anywhere near 20m. If it comes down to paying that for a LB I'll take the current form player over the potential player any day of the week.

Cool, lets just carry on conversing at the level of our age group. I don't believe in paying over the odds on potential... Had this been 2009? SURE sign him up!!! But now, Sorry 20M for a LB with potential is madness... He will be good, of that I have no doubt, its just whether he is good enough to be world class and if he can be considered the best at his position now. I'm just not sure.

It's not just potential. He's already a very good player who will hopefully continue his progress in our team. Look, I've put why I think we should sign Shaw and you obviously have concerns over the price. If he actually gives us 10-12 years of service then the price is actually not that bad and we get another English player in the squad.

He's exactly the type of talent we should be looking to get if we can, he comes from good stock and he's a proper Chelsea lad. I honestly don't know how anyone could seriously want Rodriguez over him but that's up to them.

And the reason Azpi is playing at left-back is because Cole has been poor and Azpi took his chance well.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Shaw is English which makes him home-grown for Champions League, a huge asset.

He's been one of the best left backs in the Premiership this season where Rodriguez hasn't played in it yet.

Shaw is a Chelsea fan, it's his dream to play for the club which you can bank that he'll always show passion and up for the fight.

Can't believe people are even discussing which one to go for.

If you're referring to me than a few things you need to consider.

I want Shaw just not for anything more than 18m. Anything more than that is overpayment. My opinion.

Homegrown is nice to have but its not essential, in the champions league it means more if he can actually play at that level for one of the top 5 teams in the world.

Enough with the feel good story about him loving Chelsea... If he can't play at this level what does it matter if he grew up a Chelsea fan?

The difference between our arguments are you want him at all costs, you believe he is ready to play at the highest level in europe. I believe he has potential but his true value isn't anywhere near 20m. I need more than him being a fan and English for him to be valued at 20M

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

It's not just potential. He's already a very good player who will hopefully continue his progress in our team. Look, I've put why I think we should sign Shaw and you obviously have concerns over the price. If he actually gives us 10-12 years of service then the price is actually not that bad and we get another English player in the squad.

He's exactly the type of talent we should be looking to get if we can, he comes from good stock and he's a proper Chelsea lad. I honestly don't know how anyone could seriously want Rodriguez over him but that's up to them.

And the reason Azpi is playing at left-back is because Cole has been poor and Azpi took his chance well.

I love the fact Shaw is a Chelsea supporter... I've said about a million times I wan BOTH. If it came down to one or the other I'd take the guy who is not just shown potential but is actually playing at an elite level for the money.

You seem to think that at his current level, Shaw is good enough to play for one of the top sides in the world and feature in the Champions league. I'm not so sure whereas I am Rodriguez is that player based on what I've seen of him. Watch him play and then let me know what you think... Put aside the nationality and just look at how they play, Rodriguez is without a doubt the better player and I really like Shaw...

[The only place to be 11,313]

I love the fact Shaw is a Chelsea supporter... I've said about a million times I wan BOTH. If it came down to one or the other I'd take the guy who is not just show potential but is actually playing at an elite level for the money.

You seem to think that at his current level, Shaw is good enough to play for one of the top sides in the world and feature in the Champions league. I'm not so sure whereas I am Rodriguez is that player based on what I've seen of him. Watch him play and then let me know what you think... Put aside the nationality and just look at how they play, Rodriguez is without a doubt the better player and I really like Shaw...

Buying both is ridiculous. It's not an option. It won't happen.

Look, I've said my bit. I look at Shaw and based on my experiences of seeing left-backs come and go I think he's definitely one for the future. You make it sound like Rodriguez is already an elite player and he's quite simply not. His price, whatever it is, is based on potential almost as much as Shaw's. In fact their prices are probably the same EXCEPT there's an English tax levied on Shaw and that's just one of those things.

I'd be delighted seeing him here and gutted seeing him anywhere else and whilst I'm sure you think it's 'nice' that he's English and it's quaint that we all want to see a young, exciting English talent in our team, for me it's one of the great pleasures of supporting a club. To see a young guy who is from a Chelsea stronghold, who loves this club get a chance to play for it....well that's something most supporters would be clamouring for.

Enough with the feel good story about him loving Chelsea... If he can't play at this level what does it matter if he grew up a Chelsea fan?

He can play at Premier League level....can Rodriguez? Maybe he's just another player at a mid-table German club who looks good in the Bundesliga, like De Bruyne.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Buying both is ridiculous. It's not an option. It won't happen.

Look, I've said my bit. I look at Shaw and based on my experiences of seeing left-backs come and go I think he's definitely one for the future. You make it sound like Rodriguez is already an elite player and he's quite simply not. His price, whatever it is, is based on potential almost as much as Shaw's. In fact their prices are probably the same EXCEPT there's an English tax levied on Shaw and that's just one of those things.

I'd be delighted seeing him here and gutted seeing him anywhere else and whilst I'm sure you think it's 'nice' that he's English and it's quaint that we all want to see a young, exciting English talent in our team, for me it's one of the great pleasures of supporting a club. To see a young guy who is from a Chelsea stronghold, who loves this club get a chance to play for it....well that's something most supporters would be clamouring for.

He can play at Premier League level....can Rodriguez? Maybe he's just another player at a mid-table German club who looks good in the Bundesliga, like De Bruyne.

Not ridiculous just not likely. You're forgetting this is a club that bought 5 no.10's and Schurrle, Marin and Moses...

Again, if it came down to Shaw and Rodriguez I'd take Ricardo based on what I've seen. I've watched him against Bayern, Dortmund, Hamburg, Stuttgart and Leverkusen and in those games I can assure you he was right up there as one of the best players in the match... Not exaggerating AT ALL! He is that good...

DeBruyne is without a doubt good enough for the Premier league just not good enough for the way Chelsea want to play... much like how Mata wasn't, let's not go off the deep end.

If I told you that in every game I saw Rodriguez in he played exactly like this youtube video what would you say?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIHe9by9tFA