Title Run In

[The only place to be 11,313]

post Torres, i can think of only Moses as a possible bad deal

Marin didn't work out but that's because we signed Hazard instead. Meireles certainly contributed to the team and we only made a £4 million loss on him.

The rest are too soon to tell, but even players who don't work out seem to have a lot of value left in them. Romeu could probably make back most of his fee, Bamford has probably doubled what we paid for him and even Ba is probably worth about £5 million still.

Moses could probably fetch at least £5 million, plus there's whatever Liverpool paid for him this year and to be honest he's still a young man (probably).

[lionsden 4,689]

I'm sorry but I judge results and substance/tangible rather than potential especially when it concerns football at the highest level and huge capital and investment. He became technical director in 2011 and since that time He's managed to turn us into nothing but one of europes biggeet loan sharks and his signings hasnt significantly strenghtened the current first team to the level you had expect given the money that has been spent since that time.

perhaps when these potentials actually become reality and the likes of lukaku,courtois,oscar and co starts making quantifiable and significant contributions directly in the first team that elevates us I might give him some credit. For now he's no better than a wall street trader gambling huge sums on his investment paying off in the future. Not impressed one bit until I actually see results.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm sorry but I judge results and substance/tangible rather than potential especially when it concerns football at the highest level and huge capital and investment. He became technical director in 2011 and since that time He's managed to turn us into nothing but one of europes biggeet loan sharks and his signings hasnt significantly strenghtened the current first team to the level you had expect given the money that has been spent since that time.

perhaps when these potentials actually become reality and the likes of lukaku,courtois,oscar and co starts making quantifiable and significant contributions directly in the first team that elevates us I might give him some credit. For now he's no better than a wall street trader gambling huge sums on his investment paying off in the future. Not impressed one bit until I actually see results.

Premier League finishes - 6, 3, 1*

Champions League

Europa League

FA Cup

FFP compliance

If you honestly think the signings of players like Eden Hazard, Cesar Azpilicueta, Nemanja Matic and Thibaut Courtois aren't a considerable improvement on the execrable signings made previous to his appointment then I honestly don't know what to say to you.

You decrying us as 'loan sharks' is fucking ridiculous as well. We've amassed a lot of talent in a league where it's hard to actually develop young players, and through the use of the loan system the majority have either become better players or grown in value. Considering the piss poor job done before his appointment I think the guy deserves a bit more credit.

[didierforever 7,349]

post Torres, i can think of only Moses as a possible bad deal

How???

Moses did his job in the only season. He was a 7mil buy as a 4th/5th choice Am. Moses did a pretty good job in cups for us.

Plus I can think of marin (almost the same fee) as a much much vigger failure.

[lionsden 4,689]

I meant that after the summer transfer window we were probably around 2 players away from a complete squad (when we still had Mata, KDB & Lukaku before he went out on loan). The squad depth was strong at that time, and the only thing we needed then IMO was a Matic and maybe a top class striker. As the season has gone on though it became more clear that we needed a midfield maestro next to Matic, and also needed a new LB since Mou doesn't rate Bertrand or Cole.

I agree that that became quite obvious as soon as we got Matic. So maybe you could push from needing two signings to complete the squad to maybe 3, which still isn't as far off as you're trying to make it seem.

I always say it's a shame that we let both Mata and KDB go because I knew Oscar was going to suffer burn out/ a drop of form soon due to the high amount of games he's been playing over the last two seasons.

Before we sold Mata and KDB, the depth in our AM strata was one of the best out there. Willian, Hazard, Schurrle, Mata and KDB is a very strong group of players IMO - all of these were signed under Emenalo - but Mourinho wants to take the squad in a different direction. He's reduced the quality of our AM strata by sending out two of those for various reasons and bringing in Salah (whom I didn't want to begin with) so if you really want to blame anyone for the quantity over quality theme in our AM strata, then it shouldn't be Emenalo but rather Jose.

Or you could look at it in this way; we bring Lukaku back, ship off Torres and Ba, renew Eto'o's contract and get in 1 top quality striker, so next season our strikeforce would consist of X, Lukaku & Eto'o, which is very strong IMO.

I was talking about needing two/three after the summer transfer window but obviously because the squad has been rejuggled since and with certain players underperforming it isn't the case anymore. As I've said before, you cannot blame Emenalo for that because as TOPTB mentioned above me, our transfer policy since he's come in as technical director has been so much better than what it was before he came.

Ok fair enough. In that case jose gets the blame for the reshuffling and downsizing of the squad but even before that and objectively speaking, do you not think emenalo was a bit too optimistic with his signings and could have done a much better job with the amount of money he has spent?

[The Skipper 20,609]

Just looking at the first 11, we had one of the most fantastic spines of any team in this country ever (Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lamps, Makelele, Drogba) but it was expensively assembled over a shortish period of time and the players around them were top quality and expensive too.

FFP means that isn't possible anymore, but regardless of that our purchases before Emenalo were simply not good enough. Luiz, Torres, Shevechenko, SWP, Zhirkov, Bosingwa, Benayoun, Boulharouz etc. were all overpriced, under-performed and had little re-sale value when things didn't work out.

Since then we've largely looked to younger players who make money for us even if things don't quite work out (De Bruyne, Mata and possibly Courtois). Players like Hazard, Matic, Azpilicueta and hopefully even Oscar are young but already established in the first team, whilst we have a wealth of young talent who really need to start getting chances here. I don't think Emenalo is solely responsible for that but I think it's astounding the divide between the credit he doesn't get when things are going right and the amount of shit he gets when things start to go wrong.

Agree with most of that post except for Luiz & Zhirkov having little or no resale value. We still recouped most of what we spent on Zhirkov, and also Luiz hasn't really been under performing up until this season - yet he's still being quoted at going for at least around the price we bought him for.

Everything else I agree with though, like you said it is amazing how he never gets any credit whatsoever but as soon as things aren't looking on the up the unjustifiable complaints about him start flocking in. He's done a good job here.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Agree with most of that post except for Luiz & Zhirkov having little or no resale value. We still recouped most of what we spent on Zhirkov, and also Luiz hasn't really been under performing up until this season - yet he's still being quoted at going for at least around the price we bought him for.

Everything else I agree with though, like you said it is amazing how he never gets any credit whatsoever but as soon as things aren't looking on the up the unjustifiable complaints about him start flocking in. He's done a good job here.

Zhirkov's deal was dodgy as fuck but you're right about Luiz. He was similar to Mata in that he was bought fairly young (23 ish) and is still in his prime.

[bushman 2,043]

Ok fair enough. In that case jose gets the blame for the reshuffling and downsizing of the squad but even before that and objectively speaking, do you not think emenalo was a bit too optimistic with his signings and could have done a much better job with the amount of money he has spent?

How much more did you expect? Look at the stats, it could help you a lot.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Ok fair enough. In that case jose gets the blame for the reshuffling and downsizing of the squad but even before that and objectively speaking, do you not think emenalo was a bit too optimistic with his signings and could have done a much better job with the amount of money he has spent?

Not really, we can look at all of our senior signings since Emenalo has been appointed Technical Director (most of these figures are from memory + transfermarkt so might not be 100% accurate):

2011/12:

Kevin De Bruyne - £7m

Patrick Bamford - £1.5m

Lucas Piazon - £5m

Gary Cahill - £7.5m

Meireles - £11m

Ulises Davila - £1.5m

Mata - £23m

Romeu - £4m

Lukaku - £12m/£18m

Courtois - £8m

2012/13:

Demba Ba - £8m

Wallace - £4m

Victor Moses - £10m

Azpilicueta - £7.5m

Oscar - £20m

Thorgan Hazard - £1m

Eden Hazard - £32m

Marko Marin - £7m

2013/14:

Kurt Zouma - £12m

Mo Salah - £11m

Matic - £21m

Atsu - £3.5m

Eto'o - Free

Willian - £30m

Stipe Perica - £2m

Christian Cuevas - £1.6m

Schwarzer - Free

van Ginkel - £8m

Schurrle - £18m

I've crossed out the players I think were unnecessary/bad signings, and if you look at that list it's nowhere near as bad as you've tried to make it out to be, there are a lot of great signings in that list IMO.

[Rmpr 8,977]

post Torres, i can think of only Moses as a possible bad deal

In the whole Abramovich era, Torres was the only bad deal (per say) we did!

[lionsden 4,689]

Not really, we can look at all of our senior signings since Emenalo has been appointed Technical Director (most of these figures are from memory + transfermarkt so might not be 100% accurate):

2011/12:

Kevin De Bruyne - £7m

Patrick Bamford - £1.5m

Lucas Piazon - £5m

Gary Cahill - £7.5m

Meireles - £11m

Ulises Davila - £1.5m

Mata - £23m

Romeu - £4m

Lukaku - £12m/£18m

Courtois - £8m

2012/13:

Demba Ba - £8m

Wallace - £4m

Victor Moses - £10m

Azpilicueta - £7.5m

Oscar - £20m

Thorgan Hazard - £1m

Eden Hazard - £32m

Marko Marin - £7m

2013/14:

Kurt Zouma - £12m

Mo Salah - £11m

Matic - £21m

Atsu - £3.5m

Eto'o - Free

Willian - £30m

Stipe Perica - £2m

Christian Cuevas - £1.6m

Schwarzer - Free

van Ginkel - £8m

Schurrle - £18m

I've crossed out the players I think were unnecessary/bad signings, and if you look at that list it's nowhere near as bad as you've tried to make it out to be, there are a lot of great signings in that list IMO.

So he's spent £277 million in that time and we are still no where near Europe's elite in terms of squad quality, depth, performance etc. that doesn't sound like great value and transfer dealings to me. 90% of the players he signed are either out on loan or sold because they aren't good enough or surplus to requirement (ironically).

with the amount we have spent, we should never be in a position where we have to defend deep and play like stoke city against big boys like barca, Bayern et al in an admission of inferiority. we should be in a position to go toe to toe, literally, with the very best. (packing the bus isn't going toe to toe btw).

We have spent significantly more than clubs like Dortmund, Juventus in that time and they have at the very least achieved as much success if not more than us while not relying on wimbledon tactics to do so because they have sufficient quality in their team/squad.

Edit: it gets even worse because guess what, we have actually outspent every single club in Europe including Madrid and Man city in that time upon further check and review. City spent 208 million while Madrid transfer expenses was 217million. that's fucking horrendous any way you slice it.

[manpe 10,861]

Azpilicueta - £7.5m

By far the best business we've done out of that list.

[The Skipper 20,609]

So he's spent £277 million in that time and we are still no where near Europe's elite in terms of squad quality, depth, performance and result. that doesn't sound like great value and transfer dealings to me.

You can't fully blame Emenalo for that tbh, there are so many other factors that affected this. Like I said before IMO our squad depth was superb after the summer transfer window but because we were constantly chopping and changing managers we've had no real plan or blueprint to follow, so the next best thing IMO we could've done is sign good players which is exactly what Emenalo has done.

90% of the players he signed are either out on loan or sold. with the amount we have spent, we shouldn't be in a position where we have to defend deep and play like stoke city against big boys like barca, Bayern et al in an admission of inferiority. we should be in a position to go toe to toe, literally, with the very best. (packing the bus isn't going toe to toe btw).

Again you're going to have to look at the managerial instability for that. Bayern, Barca et al have all had a manager with a certain philosophy that they were willing to back, we haven't until now, and even then Mourinho's philosophy doesn't really promote pro-technical players as the sales of Mata and KdB should suggest - so I don't know how you could again put the blame on Emenalo for that.

We have spent significantly more than clubs like Dortmund, Juventus in that time and they have at the very least achieved as much success if not more than us while not relying on wimbledon tactics to do so because they have sufficient quality in their team/squad.

Again, as I've said above, all these clubs have had a manager with a good philosophy and they've decided to build around that, so you can't compare us to them at all.

[Rmpr 8,977]

[lionsden 4,689]

You can't fully blame Emenalo for that tbh, there are so many other factors that affected this. Like I said before IMO our squad depth was superb after the summer transfer window but because we were constantly chopping and changing managers we've had no real plan or blueprint to follow, so the next best thing IMO we could've done is sign good players which is exactly what Emenalo has done.

And any technical director with some iota of sense would have recognized the risk of making signings without a manager or managerial approval . that's just common sense stuff. that didn't stop him from going bizzack on Brazilian and Belgian "talents" and bunch of attacking midfielders etc . . . .like my 10 year old nephew playing football manager .

Again you're going to have to look at the managerial instability for that. Bayern, Barca et al have all had a manager with a certain philosophy that they were willing to back, we haven't until now, and even then Mourinho's philosophy doesn't really promote pro-technical players as the sales of Mata and KdB should suggest - so I don't know how you could again put the blame on Emenalo for that.

You mean he should also be exonerated from blame for the signings he made when we were without a manager and how majority of those signings didn't address the needs to the squad?

[The Skipper 20,609]

Edit: it gets even worse because guess what, we have actually outspent every single club in Europe including Madrid and Man city in that time upon further check and review. City spent 208 while Madrid transfer expenses was 217million. that's fucking horrendous.

You're completely forgetting that these teams have already had a solid core - both Real and City already had a fantastic team/core unlike us (our core was getting old and we weren't replacing them properly, making stupid signings like the Torres one); we've been in rebuild mode for years especially with the very bad signings before Emenalo came, which is why we've had to spend more. We signed mediocre players before Emenalo came through, and that is the main reason for that IMO.

[Shane 2,275]

And any technical director with some iota of sense would have recognized the risk of making signings without a manager or managerial approval . that's just common sense stuff. that didn't stop him from going bizzack on Brazilian and Belgian "talents" and bunch of attacking midfielders etc . . . .like my 10 year old nephew playing football manager .

You mean he should also be exonerated from blame for the signings he made when we were without a manager and how majority of those signings didn't address the needs to the squad?

Our level on consistency hasn't been great because of our changing managers. With Jose in charge now and those signings that were made were in a truly fantastic position to compete on all fronts for years now. We didn't 'park the bus' (I hate that phrase) against Bayern, Man City or Liverpool.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You're completely forgetting that these teams have already had a solid core - both Real and City already had a fantastic team/core unlike us (our core was getting old and we weren't replacing them properly, making stupid signings like the Torres one); we've been in rebuild mode for years especially with the very bad signings before Emenalo came, which is why we've had to spend more. We signed mediocre players before Emenalo came through, and that is the main reason for that IMO.

Think you're wasting your time here to be honest.

Emenalo simply doesn't deserve the shit he's getting from this tiny minority. I've seen a few people leap straight to blaming him when a few things don't go our way and most of the time it's nonsensical.

I actually like the way we're doing business, taking a long-term, responsible approach to FFP but some people want us to go back to the early days of Roman's reign where we were throwing money around like nobody's business. It simply won't happen like that anymore.

[lionsden 4,689]

Our level on consistency hasn't been great because of our changing managers. With Jose in charge now and those signings that were made were in a truly fantastic position to compete on all fronts for years now. We didn't 'park the bus' (I hate that phrase) against Bayern, Man City

What was our tactical approach then? it certainly wasn't free flowing attacking football. The only decent showing performance wise was at the etihad and that's what 1 in as many encounter against them.

[BloodIsBlue 291]

Ya'll are forgetting some of that spending was done to make profits to offset FFP later down the line when possible punishments may be handed out. Someone of those singing were made because they showed a lot of financial potential and consideration into first team integration may not have been a concern. It's not that bad at all, time will expose the spending as being more intelligent that some of you suspect. Cahill and Azpi were absolute bargains for one. All the signing around the 10m mark and below are very low risk and the team's investment should be easily recoverable. If we can make something of our long list of loaned out young players that will be a small victory, if they develop into players worthy of the first team that would be a massive win. A lot of that money was spent into youth and I can't really see that blowing up in our face. I'd from the spending in those three years about 100m will make it back into our check books and possibly a few first team players who we would have paid a beans for.