How much stronger has the Premier League actually got?

[Tomo 21,685]

Not much going on tonight, so i thought i will start a thread on something that has been in my mind for quite a while.

It's widely regarded that the Premier League is so strong these days because anyone could beat any one, but the question is, is that because mid table teams have really improved or the top teams just got weaker?

When you look back to 2007-2008, Chelsea and United both at the peak of their powers and fighting tooth and nail for the title, if for argument sake those team's existed today, could you see them having much trouble with many of the teams outside the top 7? i can't, i think they would win most of them fairly easily. Obviously they will drop a few points due to law of average's, but in general they would clean up against the lesser teams just like they did then.

Which bring's me to the point of whether the PL is stronger now than it was back then, in my opinion no, maybe it's better in terms of entertainment due to the fact no one in the whole league has a great defense, but in a tactical sense, the quality of the PL is far, far inferior to 07/08 imho. I don't believe Barca and Real beat the lesser teams in Spain because they are bad, they do because Barca/Real are that good.

A couple of years back when the big games were flooded with goals (8-2 United, 6-1 City, 5-3 Arsenal, 3-1 United/Chelsea all of those games could have quite easily ended up 10-10) pundits/supporters were loving the entertainment, i personally thought it defeated the object of football, the beauty of football is how hard it is to score, hence the mad celebration's when they do. A free scoring game is good every now and again, but when it happens consistently in a short space of time it actually makes a mockery of what football is all about.

Take Cricket as another example, if teams started to go all out for around 100, that would defeat the object of how tough it is to pick up wickets.

Looking at the mid table teams now i don't think any are as good (maybe Southampton the exception if they even still are a mid table side) as the West Ham team that got to the FA Cup final, the Charlton team that had Darren Bent, Bolton under Allardyce or the Portsmouth under Redknapp's control, the only reason they have closed the gap and claiming more scalps is because the teams at the top today are a pale comparison to the Chelsea, United and even Liverpool teams of the mid to late 00's, in my honest opinion.

[Shogun 721]

it's depends how long back you want to go, in 2004-05 this team finished fourth on I think 61 points.

GK Nigel Martyn

RB Tony Hibbert

CB David Weir

CB Alan Stubbs

LB Gary Naismith

RM Kevin Kilbane

CM Lee Carsley

CM Thomas Gavesen

LM James McFadden

AM Tim Cahill

ST Marcus Bent

I don't even want to think about where that Everton team would be this year.

[Strike 6,981]

England has made a mockery of itself in Europe. Chelsea included. Chelsea, City and United were all dumped out in the group stages since 2010. City even finished bottom once. Arsenal while qualifying for the knockout stages, hasn't made any impact whatsoever there. I'd say, there are about 8-9 teams that can defeat the top English team now as opposed to 3-4 in 2008. So yeah, the top teams have definitely declined

[GeeMon 34]

Id say its a mixture.

The top teams are far more fragile that the 04-09 period and in Europe the current performances (bar us) have been abysmal.

But the amount of money for all clubs has increased spending and nearly every team in the PL has a distinct philosophy and group of dangerous players. Just listing teams i dont feel comfortable versing:

United

City

Arsenal

Liverpool

Everton

Swansea

Southampton

Villa

Newcastle

Spurs

Cardiff (at home)

Stoke (home)

Thats a shocking amount of teams that i dont feel comfortable versing and i dont think any league comes close to that number.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

The EPL is pretty easily the best league in the world and has a lot of money to spend so keeps getting stronger. It has drained a lot of the Spanish league and taken players who, in the past, would have played for Italian teams. Yes, there isn't any truly dominant team, but that is a hard thing to be in England for a number of reasons. In Spain, Germany, and Italy. the top teams are absurdly dominant but most of the lower and even mid-table sides are absolute jokes with almost no talent. In England, as GeeMon points out, there are a lot of tough matchups. If you look at mid-table sides in England, they are still filled with internationals. Swansea for example, the team halfway down the table, has more Spanish internationals than all but maybe 3 or 4 Spanish sides. Spurs are currently 9th and are loaded with top talent. Other leagues thin out extremely quickly once you get away from the very top of the table.

BTW, the stats. % of players that are internationals.

EPL-36.5%

Bundesliga-20.9%

Seria A-19.6%

La Liga-16.2%

England also has had easily the most success in Europe over the last decade. You also look in the last decade, look at the CL Finals.

EPL-3 wins, 3 different teams, 8 appearances in finals, 4 different teams in finals.

La Liga-3 wins, 1 team, 3 appearances in finals, 1 team in finals

Seria A-2 wins, 2 different teams, 3 appearances in finals, 2 different teams in finals

Bundesliga-1 win, 2 different teams, 4 appearances in finals, 2 different teams in finals.

.

4 different English teams have made the CL final and 3 different ones have won it.

So,

8 or 40% of all CL final clubs in the last decade have been English. Compare that to 1 Spanish team making the final,

[kellzfresh 7,226]

The EPL is pretty easily the best league in the world and has a lot of money to spend so keeps getting stronger. It has drained a lot of the Spanish league and taken players who, in the past, would have played for Italian teams. Yes, there isn't any truly dominant team, but that is a hard thing to be in England for a number of reasons. In Spain, Germany, and Italy. the top teams are absurdly dominant but most of the lower and even mid-table sides are absolute jokes with almost no talent. In England, as GeeMon points out, there are a lot of tough matchups. If you look at mid-table sides in England, they are still filled with internationals. Swansea for example, the team halfway down the table, has more Spanish internationals than all but maybe 3 or 4 Spanish sides. Spurs are currently 9th and are loaded with top talent. Other leagues thin out extremely quickly once you get away from the very top of the table.

BTW, the stats. % of players that are internationals.

EPL-36.5%

Bundesliga-20.9%

Seria A-19.6%

La Liga-16.2%

England also has had easily the most success in Europe over the last decade. You also look in the last decade, look at the CL Finals.

EPL-3 wins, 3 different teams, 8 appearances in finals, 4 different teams in finals.

La Liga-3 wins, 1 team, 3 appearances in finals, 1 team in finals

Seria A-2 wins, 2 different teams, 3 appearances in finals, 2 different teams in finals

Bundesliga-1 win, 2 different teams, 4 appearances in finals, 2 different teams in finals.

.

4 different English teams have made the CL final and 3 different ones have won it.

So,

8 or 40% of all CL final clubs in the last decade have been English. Compare that to 1 Spanish team making the final,

That's another way to look at it.

But if you look at the past 7 years you can actually notice that our top teams have gotten weaker compared to before. The teams that won the last 3-4 premier leagues will not win any from 2003-2009. That's how poor the top teams have become in recent times.

Just imagine our double wining mourinho team or ronaldos manutd or arsenal invincibles. They will steamroll every other team that won after that period. We used to get 2-3 premier league teams in the champions league semis, but now its a distant memory. This is proof our top teams are weaker.

But on the other hand, the mid table teams are tougher, more money to spend have brought them out, even tottenham that was one of our easier fixtures is now hard.

So in conclusion its a mixture of both. The top teams have gotten too weak and the bottom teams have gotten a little stronger in the past 5 years.

[Reddish-Blue 2,231]

The Premier League as a whole is stronger than before.

However, the top teams are much weaker...and due to more spending, the smaller clubs are getting stronger.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The Premier League as a whole is stronger than before.

However, the top teams are much weaker...and due to more spending, the smaller clubs are getting stronger.

I agree. The premier league peaked in terms of having the best 'top' teams when us and United reached the Champions League Final. Those two teams would probably walk this league, but since then both of us have declined despite us winning the Champions League.

[zolayes 14,489]

The Premier League as a whole is stronger than before.

However, the top teams are much weaker...and due to more spending, the smaller clubs are getting stronger.

I think that is an excellent assessment .