No.10 Role

[The only place to be 11,313]

It's clear that whilst Mata might be the better attacking number 10, Jose thinks he can build the better TEAM with Oscar in that position and I tend to agree. He always seems to link the play better, simply with his higher workrate allowing him to cover more ground than Mata. Mata HAS gone missing and not just in big matches. Look at the Villa game at the end of last season where the link between defence and attack was non-existent, and that was by no means a one-off.

Jose explained exactly why he is doing what he is doing. If people don't trust him then I'm not really sure what to tell them - he is the manager of Chelsea and he will get my full support. We're trying to build something new here and we're top of the table. There's a breed of Chelsea supporter who want instant success and don't want any of the pain that goes along with supporting a football club. It's probably best to ignore these guys until we're back where we were a few years ago and they are kept quiet with their plastic flags again.

[Styles 9,790]

It's clear that whilst Mata might be the better attacking number 10, Jose thinks he can build the better TEAM with Oscar in that position and I tend to agree. He always seems to link the play better, simply with his higher workrate allowing him to cover more ground than Mata. Mata HAS gone missing and not just in big matches. Look at the Villa game at the end of last season where the link between defence and attack was non-existent, and that was by no means a one-off.

Jose explained exactly why he is doing what he is doing. If people don't trust him then I'm not really sure what to tell them - he is the manager of Chelsea and he will get my full support. We're trying to build something new here and we're top of the table. There's a breed of Chelsea supporter who want instant success and don't want any of the pain that goes along with supporting a football club. It's probably best to ignore these guys until we're back where we were a few years ago and they are kept quiet with their plastic flags again.

The ones that annoy me the most are the ones who can't even understand how the games play out and what most opposition teams do against us.

Almost every team we play whether at home or away will defend deep with 11 men and try to make life as difficult as possible, yet we're supposed to just steamroller teams and win 4-0 every week. They don't care that we're playing against professional teams with players who earn millions, we're supposed to win easily like we do in pre-season and if we don't then the manager doesn't have a clue.

Every team we play against sees us a bonus game so they completely alter the way they play. That some people can't get their head around that is amazing.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The ones that annoy me the most are the ones who can't even understand how the games play out and what most opposition teams do against us.

Almost every team we play whether at home or away will defend deep with 11 men and try to make life as difficult as possible, yet we're supposed to just steamroller teams and win 4-0 every week. They don't care that we're playing against professional teams with players who earn millions, we're supposed to win easily like we do in pre-season and if we don't then the manager doesn't have a clue.

Every team we play against sees us a bonus game so they completely alter the way they play. That some people can't get their head around that is amazing.

The fact that we're less than 10 games into a new season, with a new style, new manager and new personnel should see people giving the club a bit more time, but football fans can live in the moment.

Jose could be here for years and hundreds of games, and people are panicking after matchday 7?

[Styles 9,790]

The fact that we're less than 10 games into a new season, with a new style, new manager and new personnel should see people giving the club a bit more time, but football fans can live in the moment.

Jose could be here for years and hundreds of games, and people are panicking after matchday 7?

Exactly. Even the Mata issue is showing that some people support individual players more than they do the club. You have people on here seriously suggesting that Mata should be exempt from defensive duties, yet they demand that and more from others.

It's a funny way to support a club but the fanboyism is rampant.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Exactly. Even the Mata issue is showing that some people support individual players more than they do the club. You have people on here seriously suggesting that Mata should be exempt from defensive duties, yet they demand that and more from others.

It's a funny way to support a club but the fanboyism is rampant.

Well that shirt printing is expensive.

Win a local derby, top of the league and Mikel scores....but Mata didn't play so I'm gonna bitch.

Some things I just don't understand.

[remains of the day 564]

Exactly. Even the Mata issue is showing that some people support individual players more than they do the club. You have people on here seriously suggesting that Mata should be exempt from defensive duties, yet they demand that and more from others.

It's a funny way to support a club but the fanboyism is rampant.

You can choose to see it as "fanboyism", I see it as showing loyalty and appreciation towards a player that has served us very well. Wasn't aware that, that was (as you say) "a funny way to support a club." But hey, my bad.

Also not too sure I understand what the point of this argument is. If the question is, is there a significant drop in creativity when Oscar plays in the no. 10 role as opposed to when Mata plays in no 10....I think the answer is clear. The game against Basel, Oscar made only 2 key passes, to put that into perspective, Lampard (who tends to receive a lot of unfair criticism on here) produced four key passes, basically double the number of Oscar's. I don't think there was a match this season that Oscar actually created the most chances in the game. Rather than debating who is more creative, I think the question should be, are the qualities that Oscar brings (and that Mata doesn't) enough to counterbalance the drop in creativity? What I'm seeing from Oscar right now are a lot of good individual performances from him that aren't translating to us winning games or performing better.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You can choose to see it as "fanboyism", I see it as showing loyalty and appreciation towards a player that has served us very well. Wasn't aware that, that was (as you say) "a funny way to support a club." But hey, my bad.

Also not too sure I understand what the point of this argument is. If the question is, is there a significant drop in creativity when Oscar plays in the no. 10 role as opposed to when Mata plays in no 10....I think the answer is clear. The game against Basel, Oscar made only 2 key passes, to put that into perspective, Lampard (who tends to receive a lot of unfair criticism on here) produced four key passes, basically double the number of Oscar's. I don't think there was a match this season that Oscar actually created the most chances in the game. Rather than debating who is more creative, I think the question should be, are the qualities that Oscar brings (and that Mata doesn't) enough to counterbalance the drop in creativity? What I'm seeing from Oscar right now are a lot of good individual performances from him that aren't translating to us winning games or performing better.

Against Basel Oscar scored one, hit the crossbar and put Hazard through clear on goal. Against a team who defended deep, that's enough isn't it?

Mata makes us attack better, but I think that right now Oscar can make us the better team. He's carried this team at times this season both in attack and defensively. Until he stops doing that, he's the number 10.

[Fernando 6,590]

I remember when the Belgians fan base where telling us that KDB will take Oscar spot and all that.

Now look how things have changed?

[Rmpr 8,977]

Until he stops doing that, he's the number 10.

Oscar is the number 11, idiot!

[The only place to be 11,313]

Oscar is the number 11, idiot!

He's the number one, number ten, with the number eleven and he looks twelve.

[Stingray 9,441]

I remember when the Belgians fan base where telling us that KDB will take Oscar spot and all that.

Lmao. I don't think the Belgian fanbase said that really. In fact some that did say that weren't belgians at all. We, the belgian brigade (if there even is such a ridiculous thing) did say he 1) has great talent and 2) performs better in the NT than Hazard has done 3) is essentially a winger (although a LOT on here said he couldn't play on the right flank) and 4) hs the potential to play in the CM as well.

No worries mate - he will come good. He hasn't had much playtime but he has shown he can do it. It will happen. Let's just wait a bit before ejaculating so prematurely

[couris 232]

Jose is going to turn Mata into a DiMaria? LOL

[remains of the day 564]

Against Basel Oscar scored one, hit the crossbar and put Hazard through clear on goal. Against a team who defended deep, that's enough isn't it?

Mata makes us attack better, but I think that right now Oscar can make us the better team. He's carried this team at times this season both in attack and defensively. Until he stops doing that, he's the number 10.

Regardless of Oscar's potential to make us play better as a team, the reality is right now we're not playing well as a team at all. He took five shots against basel (the most out of our players) but only managed to create two mere chances. Although he scored the goal but it was Lampard who created the chance for him and who also created the most chances on the night. I rate Oscar, I do, but what I see is a player who despite being on reasonably good form and besides being given a lot of faith and opportunities by the manager, has failed to really make an impact on the team's performances or results. Again, I'm not saying with any certainty that Mata should play over Oscar, all I'm saying is that the team is struggling to create enough clear cut chances and they're struggling to execute penetrative passes in the final third. Considering this, my question is, is Oscar's contribution to the defensive organization of the team enough to warrant the drop in creativity that we wouldn't have if Mata were given a run of games? I understand playing Oscar over Mata against Bayern, Man utd etc. But should we really be sacrificing Mata's creativity for Oscar's defensive work rate against Basel at home?

[Mustafa 885]

he just said in one the interviews (better check the Mourinho thread) his plan is to play the two of them together (I assume as AM's, no pivot nonsense), but that he feels Mata isn't ready to start the matches. So I think his plan is to keep Mazacar, but he won't play them until Mata is fit - which should apply to Hazard too btw as Eden has been below par - as much or even more so than Mata and that is while playing at all possible minutes except today's last five. I support Mata being benched and proving his value, but I can't understand why the same doesn't apply to Hazard - quite the opposite the more he sucks, the more he plays it seem

I understand what your saying but how is Juan gonna get fitness and sharpness when he's not even in the squad ?? He needs to be playing games like Basel (h), Fulham (h) etc. These teams are inferior and we dont need to focus too much on the defensive aspect of the team when we have the ball 60-70% of the time

[Stingray 9,441]

Again, I'm not saying with any certainty that Mata should play over Oscar, all I'm saying is that the team is struggling to create enough clear cut chances and they're struggling to execute penetrative passes in the final third. Considering this, my question is, is Oscar's contribution to the defensive organization of the team enough to warrant the drop in creativity that we wouldn't have if Mata were given a run of games? I understand playing Oscar over Mata against Bayern, Man utd etc. But should we really be sacrificing Mata's creativity for Oscar's defensive work rate against Basel at home?

It is a very good point - but it i one Mourinhou apparantly answers by saying it is time for getting new paradigms in. Oscar adapted and Mata will (as will Hazard). He did explicitly pronounce his wish to play both - but in a system. So it is a choice of philosophy really. To be fair - we have been crying out loud for some identity and a football philosophy. It is not because it doesn't look pretty at the moment, it will be a cruel system that sacrifices a formidable creative AM such a s Mata, really.

I understand what your saying but how is Juan gonna get fitness and sharpness when he's not even in the squad ?? He needs to be playing games like Basel (h), Fulham (h) etc. These teams are inferior and we dont need to focus too much on the defensive aspect of the team when we have the ball 60-70% of the time

Now that is true. I suspect a little anxiety avoidance by Mourinho here. He has had a bit of bad feedback, and maybe prefers to have the team up and running first. I, myself, ask the question why there is no Mata or KDB for those games. But if you want to work in calmer waters with your unscrambled eggs, maybe we should have patience a bit. With tho I gladly add, I think that is a weakness display - you should be able to play Mata regularly to get him in form. Not because this is Mata FC but because a fit Mata is a superb long term Chelsea FC item.

[Mustafa 885]

Now that is true. I suspect a little anxiety avoidance by Mourinho here. He has had a bit of bad feedback, and maybe prefers to have the team up and running first. I, myself, ask the question why there is no Mata or KDB for those games. But if you want to work in calmer waters with your unscrambled eggs, maybe we should have patience a bit. With tho I gladly add, I think that is a weakness display - you should be able to play Mata regularly to get him in form. Not because this is Mata FC but because a fit Mata is a superb long term Chelsea FC item.

Exactly ! Not having Mata in the squad on even having him on the bench solves absolutely NOTHING ! If Jose wants him to develop into "his type of player" he needs to give him playing time... LOL its not like Mata is some horrible player that will cost us a game just by having him in the team. This is our Player of the Year for the past 2 seasons... I dont know why Mourinho isnt acknowledging that

[Stingray 9,441]

Exactly ! Not having Mata in the squad on even having him on the bench solves absolutely NOTHING ! If Jose wants him to develop into "his type of player" he needs to give him playing time... LOL its not like Mata is some horrible player that will cost us a game just by having him in the team. This is our Player of the Year for the past 2 seasons... I dont know why Mourinho isnt acknowledging that

That must be something we don't know, really. I think he wants to create what people call a 'burning platform' in Mata. a realisation he needs to change and he does it the hard way. It is his style real. I also think he is doing that to KDB. It is something I myself do when training people.

1: Get them to see there is a problem and create a burning platform

2: get them to see that they can be a solution to the problem if they change

3: get them motivated enough to work on it every day

4: Hope their natural talent is enough to warrant the change ....

We will see if he can do it.

[OneMoSalah 8,887]

I think if we are going to see Mata and Oscar in the same team, with Oscar as the number 10 and Mata RW, then Hazard will have to be sacrificed for Schurrle who is more of a willing runner for team balance along with Ramires playing on the right side of the pivot with Mikel on the left side of it.

Schurrle - Oscar - Mata

Mikel - Ramires

Mata will try and contribute defensively but won't be very useful so using Ramires' legs and energy on the right side of the pitch will help I'd say. Then it allows Oscar to come back and fill in for Ramires' if hes missed the tackle and out of position. Still prefer Mata as the #10 for his creativity but this could perhaps work.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Hazard in top form should not be sacrificed for anybody.

[meetdoscar 335]

Hazard in top form should not be sacrificed for anybody.

You must be belgian or a relative? Hehe