No.10 Role

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

oh really? so tell me what do u do if a player is out of form. never play him until he magically gets in form after waking up one morning, or keep him benched till the season ends till he loses all his confidence.

read my post carefully. i said "yes, very true dude because CHELSEA FOOTBALL CLUB is all about developing oscar not about getting the right results and the right balance. LOL-MAX post. "

do u understand what right balance is? does right balance mean playing mata 90 minutes of every game with no consideration to his form? hell NO.

so please read a post CAREFULLY and INTELLIGENTLY before attacking a fellow poster.

Wait for him to actually show something..

When Mata plays, THIS SEASON, the squad hasn't looked good. Oscar has been better. People need to understand that we aren't dominating games.. If we were dominating, I'd be 100% in favor of easing in Mata, but when we play we always have to scrap out results, and out of form Mata can't be put in a position to make the offense run for this team in crucial moments..

I wasn't attacking you, sorry if it came out looking like tht

[Barbara 15,149]

and now i read How long is Mata going to be allowed to live off of previous seasons reputations?

and the answer to that was "forever and ever".

6 matches. 6 fucking matches out of which he startes just 2 and mata is already living off his previous season reputation.

un-fucking-believable. disgraceful.

I was being cheeky, mate. It was a joke.

what's your name again?

anyway, I think Mata isn't big enough to have adapting a whole system around him. I think we need to find the best working system for the players we do have - all teams have areas they need to reinforce (ManUtd midfield, RM defense, Barça striker, Bayern is too dynamic to single out where they can improve, but they've been struggling this season under Pep, etc...). We need to improve our ST force and our DM, but right now we don't have improvements on either. So what does work better for us? Mourinho has to think as a team and players will have to improve - not only Mata because he isn't as flawless and genius-y to have the whole team adapting except him. That was the whole point I was trying to make. I've said many times we need him to recover, his creativity in the team is incomparable and can lead us to better places, but we need to find balance in the whole system, the whole organism like Tom said (although in different contexts). I'm not writing him off at all, mate. I just diminished him so we could try to see the big pic that is: Chelsea need changes because the last two seasons we were weak competitively.

[bushman 2,043]

According to Jose, Mata needs to play a different role, I read.

Somehow, Jose refused to elaborate on it.

He also wants to see Oscar as No. 10. Meanwhile, Chelsea are running on 3 games winless streak.

A new project, he says. Well, let´s see today about Jose´s new project.

[didierforever 7,349]

If you are going to highlight my post highlight all of it and not incomplete sentences that prove your bias towards another player

first of all, it was to show YOUR BIAS towards a player. it was to show your pre-judice.

now lets take the all of your post into consideretion

Anyhow i look at it i see more points for oscar than mata. Mata has had 2 individually brilliant seasons as our no. 10.(In which our team performed poorly in the league) Which is not even his natural position in spain and seasons we came 5th(65points) and 3rd(75points) respectively, Oscar on the other hand is just having his first season as our no.10 which is his natural position in brasil. If you really care about our team and not only mata then you may only start slagging moirinho or oscar if things are going bad in december/january. It is unfortunate that instead of praising oscar's development we are putting more unwarranted pressure on the kid by demanding an automatic place for mata despite his poor form yet we say chelsea destroys young players never giving them a chance well oscar is a kid and has been given a chance by mourinho who is criticised for not playing young players, now that he does people still criticise him.

tell me when did the national team become the criteria to select our players for club football. i mean does mikel play as a cam/cm for chelsea like he does for nigeria. if rambo conviniently dropped out of the squad like he is for brazil. no he is our first name on the team-sheet, ahead of cech, jt, oscar, mata, hazard, because we look pathetic in mid without him. let me give u a clear idea. players play 10 matches a year at an average for their nations while they play 60 for their clubs. they spend 40 weeks out of 52 with their clubs while just the remaining 12 with the NT. its the club performances that normally defines a player. not his NT performances/position.

then u say that if people only care about mata, then they will slag mou and oscar but so conviniently defend them with the youth argument, completely neglecting what our results and performances have been so far.

lastly, as i said in my previous post. CFC is not about oscar's development, its about the right results and right balance. if it means chucking out mata on the bench would give us the right result then i am 100% in but when right now things are not looking so rosy and ideal, hence we should be thinking of doing what i best for the team not for oscar.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

but would he strengthen our pivot? I think we should always take into consideration the partners we have available for them. Khedira can play in Madrid's pivot because he has Xabi by his side. Busquets - as much as I hate him - is a great guy in the pivot. So is Schweinsteiger and it's easier to place technical players by their sides. Our guys for the pivot are Ramires, Lamps, Mikel, Essien and Marco. Playing Kev there would strengthen the zone or expose our defense more? If he strengthens the whole thing, than we can afford to have Mata in the CAM...

No I don't think he'll actually strengthen our pivot at the moment. Like I said, he could be a decent cover in the pivot, especially next to Mikel. He might be able to improve our pivot in the future because his vision and long passing is miles better than anyone we have there right now, but naturally, he will need time to adjust.

[didierforever 7,349]

Wait for him to actually show something..

When Mata plays, THIS SEASON, the squad hasn't looked good. Oscar has been better. People need to understand that we aren't dominating games.. If we were dominating, I'd be 100% in favor of easing in Mata, but when we play we always have to scrap out results, and out of form Mata can't be put in a position to make the offense run for this team in crucial moments..

I wasn't attacking you, sorry if it came out looking like tht

when mata has played this season, we have DOMINATED EVERTON for 55 minutes and then looked pathetically lost when playing without him.

the only other match that mata started, he looked hopelessly unfit and it was his first minutes on the pitch with just 45 minutes in pre-season, so if we can give hazard the benefit of doubt for 6 matches, etoo for 2 etc. etc... we can give mata the same consideration too.

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

when mata has played this season, we have DOMINATED EVERTON for 55 minutes and then looked pathetically lost when playing without him.

the only other match that mata started, he looked hopelessly unfit and it was his first minutes on the pitch with just 45 minutes in pre-season, so if we can give hazard the benefit of doubt for 6 matches, etoo for 2 etc. etc... we can give mata the same consideration too.

I'll disagree with dominated, but we did outplay them. A lot of people want Hazard and Eto'o benched for today so...

And Mata should atleast play 45 min IMO

[Barbara 15,149]

when mata has played this season, we have DOMINATED EVERTON for 55 minutes and then looked pathetically lost when playing without him.

the only other match that mata started, he looked hopelessly unfit and it was his first minutes on the pitch with just 45 minutes in pre-season, so if we can give hazard the benefit of doubt for 6 matches, etoo for 2 etc. etc... we can give mata the same consideration too.

and then we look at the stats and the actual match Mata did little to contribute to that domination, most of it was because of André and Eto'o but let's also give the credit to Hazard, Lamps and whoever as they were also figuring in those 55 minutes. That's the kind of thing we need to look closely. We lost control of the match because André was subbed, not because Mata was... Mata contributed but little compared to André...

[jonaaibosk 191]

and now i read How long is Mata going to be allowed to live off of previous seasons reputations?

and the answer to that was "forever and ever".

6 matches. 6 fucking matches out of which he startes just 2 and mata is already living off his previous season reputation.

un-fucking-believable. disgraceful.

Well judging by the comments on here, he's the fucking messiah, despite putting in sub standard performances. Note you haven't even bothered to address the rest of my post. I've stated that I want Mata to return to previous form, but until that happens, there are a lot of folk on here who need a reality check and will have to realise that if Mata isn't performing then he is going to have to sit out games until his form comes back.

Put it this way, if you were manager of your local boys club team and young Jimmy had been POTY 2 years in a row but this season had been playing within himself and not performing to the best that he can, yet little Billy was playing really well and was much improved on previous years, would you continue to pick Jimmy and cross your fingers and hope his form returned or would you play Billy who was putting in better performances?

My original post was not about hating on Mata, look at my avatar FFS, I love Mata, it's more about what is best for Chelsea right now and what is best is protecting Mata, by not playing him when he is off form. Continuing to play an off form player will do nothing for his confidence and that will begin to rub off on the rest of the team. Mata needs to grab his chance by coming off the bench and forcing Jose to pick him, by putting in the kind if performance we know he is capable of.

[didierforever 7,349]

I'll disagree with dominated, but we did outplay them. A lot of people want Hazard and Eto'o benched for today so...

And Mata should atleast play 45 min IMO

lets hope for the best. lets just hope that whatever 11 are selected, just come out to prove a point and play their hearts out.

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

lets hope for the best. lets just hope that whatever 11 are selected, just come out to prove a point and play their hearts out.

Agreed, I don't care who plays right now, just want 3 points

[yuvala 2,167]

lets hope for the best. lets just hope that whatever 11 are selected, just come out to prove a point and play their hearts out.

Yep. We can debate who should be selected all day, but at the end of the day I just want us to win, whether its Mata or Oscar starting.

[didierforever 7,349]

Well judging by the comments on here, he's the fucking messiah, despite putting in sub standard performances. Note you haven't even bothered to address the rest of my post. I've stated that I want Mata to return to previous form, but until that happens, there are a lot of folk on here who need a reality check and will have to realise that if Mata isn't performing then he is going to have to sit out games until his form comes back.

Put it this way, if you were manager of your local boys club team and young Jimmy had been POTY 2 years in a row but this season had been playing within himself and not performing to the best that he can, yet little Billy was playing really well and was much improved on previous years, would you continue to pick Jimmy and cross your fingers and hope his form returned or would you play Billy who was putting in better performances?

My original post was not about hating on Mata, look at my avatar FFS, I love Mata, it's more about what is best for Chelsea right now and what is best is protecting Mata, by not playing him when he is off form. Continuing to play an off form player will do nothing for his confidence and that will begin to rub off on the rest of the team. Mata needs to grab his chance by coming off the bench and forcing Jose to pick him, by putting in the kind if performance we know he is capable of.

i dint even read your post. all i read was the answer which got me seething. so no hard feelings there.

if young billy was able to provide with the best RESULTS, i would gladly continue him meanwhile giving billy the chance to prove himself too. 2 starts in the season is not enough to say that mata has been shit. if we are willing to give hazard the benefit of doubt after 6 starts, etoo , willian, schurlle then i feel out POTY deserves as much.

my point is exactly that. chelsea should be the priority. not mata and not oscar. but when a coach comes out and says "oscar is the main man, and any1 else would have to displace him" sends out a very wrong message. also read barbara's post. in it only that one line about was bolded and size was increased and what i read then was shocking. people actually saying things like "mata is living off his reputations" . after what??? 2 starts? 2 starts in the season is mainly for fitness concerns when a player had played 45 minutes of the pre-season.

[jonaaibosk 191]

It's the attitude of people on here though. It's not that I'm saying Mata, personally, is living off past reputations, it's that people on here are putting still judging him on previous performances rather than his substandard performances of this season. It may well be down to a lack of fitness, but as it stands, IMO, the best thing for Chelsea is to leave Mata out and use him sparingly until his form returns. If he can come off the bench and perform like we know he can then he will force Jose to start picking him to start games, that's really what Jose is getting at. He's not saying "Oscar is better than Mata" he's saying "Oscar is first choice until someone puts in better performances than him"

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Many Chelsea fans including myself are worried about the future of Juan Mata following his recent omission from the Chelsea team.

This has confused the majority of Chelsea fans who have full support for a player that has been our superstar for the last two seasons.

Do you remember the last Chelsea number 10 that had been performing well at Chelsea and then Jose Mourinho came in disparaging their performances and demanding more?

It was of course Joe Cole, who after a tough initial period developed into an incredible asset to the team adding a tough steel to his flair play that took him to a different level.

It is clear that Jose Mourinho feels the player that Mata has been in the last two seasons is a luxury and expects more work, which is not usually associated with the No.10 position.

This means that we may be in for a tough period as Mata is expected to develop his skill set and may not be the fixture in the team that we expect.

I am not the manager and am not sure if this is the right approach, yet Mourinho has been extremely successful in recent years and it seems he is laying down the gauntlet to Juan Mata to improve as a player and add a new element to his game.

Despite being a superhero for Chelsea, Mata has struggled to break into the Spain team due to the talent they have in his position.

If he can add a new skill set, then he could see himself featuring more for Spain and reclaiming his place as top dog in our attacking midfield.

I would be devastated if such a brilliant talented player left our club, so hope that he and Mourinho can start singing from the same song-sheet soon.

http://www.famouscfc.com/is-mourinho-giving-juan-mata-a-joe-cole-makeover/

[Clevemayer 764]

@Barbara, listen I never ever said we should sacrifice the best for our team for one partiuclar player. I never said you have an biased opinion even once, but it seems you defend yourself that hard because in reallity you DO defend him? I don't know its not important for the discussion. Everybody has a cussion for a specific player mine is to Drogba and I will defend him what ever comes around the corner but at the same time I will admit he has had his flaws, still he was just like what Chuck Norris is in his facts a real beast (as a matter of fact Drogba is a beast in REALITY too).

I'm not the one saying the team has to be build around Mata, the only thing I'm stating ist the obvious to ME. Mata ist the most gifted player at the ball with Hazard for sure. He has a creativity that even Hazard lacks, Hazard is a brilliant dribbler but he isn't as creative as Mata. Oscar is a hard worker, he is the kind of midfiler I love most in football, he has a bit of Kaka in his play (yes you read it I love midfielders doing the dirty job before doing the ball joggling things, thats why Lamps for me is the 2nd Best midfielder after Zidane retired from football and Ronaldinho came up). But Oscar isn't that flashy number 10 we need, in fact he is more like Özil whom played on the wings in Real often, he shifted out wide left if I remember that fully correct, I didn't watch too much of RM last season.

I want Oscar to take more responsebility for the team and doing so as CM, takeing over from Lampard. So I think we should built the team around Oscar in fact, but I think he isn't that well deployed as the focal attacking point, he isn't flashy he mostly hasn't that X-Factor, Mata just is like Zola and I'm sorry if I'm a biases Chelsea fan after watching them from 98 onwards but thats as good as it gets for me as an number 10 can. He is exactly what we're missing next to maybe another world class DM but I think him and Mikel would be a great pairing. I think Oscar is wasted as a number 10 BEHIND the striker a playmaker as CM in the same role as Lampard dis suits him best. He can tackle, he doesn't do nonsense at the ball, he has great stamnia, he has a sublime range of passing, he executes his passes quickly and has that killer instinct you rarely find within a midfilder, plus he has that shot.

Back to the Case you brought up, Mata in fact IS a better player then Silva. In his very first season Mata played better then Silva in nearly every aspect of his game as you can see over here in his stats he is compared to the finest of the EPL The best thing.

2011/12 Mata and Silva wher ein theyre own leage and had no competition at all, albeit you have to remember it was Matas very first Season:

He has 2 assists less then Silva, but so in less time, so his assists per Minute are far above Silva (nearly 3 Min), after That he has a slight dip in Form or better said he was simply overplayed 2012/13, I agree but still he was better then Silva to me, because he took more responsebility and he carried the team, he never gave up and that was what most of us (hopefully) will never forget from this little midget with that big heart. I think we can all agree on that. He has played an incredible number of games.

In 2012/13 he has a dip in Form thats true but like I've said he was absolutly overplayed he played 74 in Total and I think 62 for chelsea alone. Silva played 52 games in TOTAL.

Hazard and Oscar created 65 and 47 Chances for the Record.

Now despite the fact of him being overplayed there comes another tihng that @didierforever raised in his post. Just look at our Midfield and compare it to the other Teams. Seriously, Mikel is a DM that need support because he doesn't dictate a game in that manner of playing clear through balls (he has the ability but doesn't use it why ever... thats discussed in the Mikel thread), we've had a past prime Lampard and we had a Ramires that sometimes (again I love Ramy because he works his socks off and least gives a shit when he is at the field), despite being brazilian, doesn't know how to kick a ball. That was basically our Midfield. City had Touré, Nasri, Millner, Garcia, Barry whom all worked harder then our Midfielders to help the attack. Other Teams where even better, I hold Kroos and Martinez in very high regret as Midfielders, Schweinsteiger is a bit overhyped but still better then Lamps in these days.

We all were outraged because of the big gaps our players produced so what do we need, we have a clearly world class player (whom some fans disgustingly just want to discredit because of some what ever reasons. Mata IS worldclass I have bayern fans, they would cut they're hands off. I know some Real Madrid fans whom would love to see him after Özil. I konw plenty of Manchester United fans whom would love him instead 90% of they're attacking players right now, so this point of discrediting him for some flaws in his main ability is ridiciulous.

We can agree that he had a slight dip to his former season but I can't remember anybody saying that days Mata must leave because he as a bad OMF or he should play on the wings. He carried us through all this bad moments and you honestly give him banter for that seriously, you should know better because you have a better knowledge Barbara, at least I think so of you.

As you know I'm not a friend of long posts and big words so this should do enough, all further posts will be shortened.Mata hasn't to play because I love him, he has to, because he is our most creative and prolific OMFs we HAVE thats the point and he is as good as you get them and to me better then Silva because in OUR midfield he did what he has done.

so think twice before you accuse me of some sort of bullshit try'n to build a team around Mata. I said he could be a captain because of his heart. Remember JT is our cap and we didn't built the team around him either.

so Mata for OMF and Oscar as the missing link in the CM thats the only logical outcome for me. But Mata has to raise his defensive workrate.

[Barbara 15,149]

@Clevemayer, thanks for the thoughtful post and reasonable, mate.

I do think it's a huge stretch to say a player with Silva stats and how he contributed to keep ManCity competitive is 5x inferior to Mata.

They're different kind of players and I rate both highly. I definitely don't rate any of them 5x ahead of the other. That's the exaggeration you people keep doing as if Mata was the best thing since sliced bread. He's far from it. He's not even the best AM in the world, far from it. Not even the best CAM imo.

Actually others said about me defending Oscar and said it's Brazilian bias. Again, mate, I'm not even defending Oscar. I'm just against the make-god process most fans here have about Mata. I think he's great, but not 'crème de la crème'. My whole point is we're defending a player from being challenged based on his past laurels when his past laurels didn't even take us much farther because there is an exaggeration on how good he is because we'd been in dire need of a guy like him for years to come! Last really amazing #10 we had was Cole! It has nothing to do with Oscar. I do think right now Oscar fits better for the game plan. I don't know if the game plan chosen is the best but we need to give it a try before dismissing it (the game plan, not Oscar or Mata). That was my first question in the thread. Who fits better the current game plan?

I honestly didn't know then because I haven't stopped to think deeply about it. for me it was as simple as Oscar is outperforming Mata, therefore he has to play - simple like that (because otherwise what Mourinho says to Oscar? 'hey kid, you're playing better, but this guy here has been our POTY for 2 years in a row, so I have to bench you or play you out of position because we need to see if he can reach that level again, thanks for trying though'). Then I started to try to think things from a tactic and long-term perspective. Mourinho wants to change the style - thanks God for that, I have posts dated from my first month here begging him to change the pathetic way we've been playing football for most of the last two seasons. Then I came to the conclusion that no matter what works best Oscar either plays as a CAM or doesn't play at all. That's what I've been stating through and through. And still you guys - like you just said - say I'm defending Oscar. I'm not defending Oscar! I'm saying either he plays on his best position or don't play him because unlike Mata who proved in the past he can play in the wing, Oscar proved he can't. Are we going to force a player to do something he can not? Are we going to trade one liability for another? Oscar in the wing is a liability for Chelsea - not a defensive liability like Mata, but an offensive liability as he produces nothing playing there.

then I went on and on about how Mata isn't untouchable, how he can improve, how he has flaws and how above all with all his awesomeness he failed to step up in the tough moments and win us matches. Sorry if I believe for a player to be considered world class he has to be able to step up and be the bigger man at least once in a while and he has the obligation to solve us tight matches in the national leagues because those matches cost you the title.

He needs to step up to be deserving of the status he has among some Chelsea fans (most overrate him, but not all of those makes him a god). That's my point. I'm tired - and my body is sore - and I can't find more ways to try to state the same. I'm not an objective speaker, never has been, never will, it confuses people sometimes, but in this instance I guess I've been clear, my problem with some posts in this thread is that I think you guys overrate Mata. In your case specifically I think you're terribly unfair to Silva, and underrates him (or overrates Mata - probably both) to the point you say Mata is 5x times better than Silva when obviously he isn't. That's the problem with Chelsea fans in general about Mata. They think he's way better than he actually is in my humble opinion. Which means that only we disagree, not that I'm right or you're right, just that I disagree and can't accept the god status he's given because he's the first creative guy to play for us in years, and he's brought a smile to people's face because he was a [much needed] breath of fresh air.

[NishC300 1,865]

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