Marco van Ginkel

[The Mak 4,459]

It's about time we got a bit of dutch magic! From what I hear, he's mainly a CM who likes to go forward? I could be wrong, but it may point to us alternating between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 for certain games as a lot of our AMs are also comfortable on the wing.

I'm all for the signing, but it's still not addressing our main concerns. These:

I wont complain because I believe he is a good player, but I wish we were focusing more on buying stablished and experienced player for key posistions (ST, DM, CB, etc)...

Transition is transition. Mourinho would still want to challenge strongly in the Premier League and Champions League, the 2 major competitions for us, and win it. Moreover, there needs to be a balance of experience and youth to the team. Right now, we have an influx of the latter and not enough of the former that will elevate us to the next level and fix the immediate problems in the team. We could find ourselves in battling to finish in the Top 4 again if we don't address the right areas in the team for next season.

The pivot in particular is in dire need of a world class talent or some experience. It's where we fell down a lot last season. If it came to it, I think we could go another season with the defence and strikers we have at the moment, but only if the pivot gets a top, top signing. Maybe if even two, especially if the links of Mikel to Turkey are in anyway true.

We can't get distracted by buying more flashy attacking youth when we also need players who can get the dirty work done as well.

However, I think this may be a leftover Emenalo signing that Jose simply gave the green light to. I don't think Emenalo is too adept at picking defensive players, so I turst Mourinho to get it right. I think the next signings will be influenced more by José...

P.S. I think MVG should probably go out on loan. He'd add great depth, but the likes of Werder Bremen would take him in a second and he'd start nearly all their games.

[Jase 43,479]

The reason why we battled for the top 4 last season was because we did not have enough width. We so desperately needed a striker and DM aswell + we had Rafa Benitez as our manager.

Did not have enough width? Width?! You meant depth right?

Buying players like van Ginkel will add depth in terms of numbers but the quality is not necessarily there. We need depth not just in terms of having numbers but also a sufficient amount of quality in the squad. And yes, we have Mourinho as the manager this time around but as I have said many times, he's great but not god. He can only work with what he's got. He can't magically give players additional quality or improvements in it, especially with the younger ones.

[BOSS 372]

Did not have enough width? Width?! You meant depth right?

Buying players like van Ginkel will add depth in terms of numbers but the quality is not necessarily there. We need depth not just in terms of having numbers but also a sufficient amount of quality in the squad. And yes, we have Mourinho as the manager this time around but as I have said many times, he's great but not god. He can only work with what he's got. He can't magically give players additional quality or improvements in it, especially with the younger ones.

Depth and width. Playing Mazacar is a problem. We need more width we needed someone like Schurrle and i am glad we got him.

[Jase 43,479]

Depth and width. Playing Mazacar is a problem. We need more width we needed someone like Schurrle and i am glad we got him.

Erm, that wasn't even the issue I was alluding to in the first place.

And on Schurrle you mention there, he was bought more for adding depth and providing a different option (in terms of operating in his main position at LW). If you want to talk about depth and width, then we probably should be buying a right winger, if anything.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Not too happy with this signing, looks similar to Kdb, but not as good. Some will say that Kevin isnt CM, but he played there for Genk and je plays in midfield in 4:3:3 for Belgium. Way too similar players because both will never get in starting eleven with Mazacar and others like Chalobah, Loftus, Romeu,...

Besides I kind of dislike all these transitional seasons, our team might be younger but in all these years, we dont even have the formation and at least half of the first 11. Soo many buys but no one knows what for realy. Oscar was brought as CM as Modric replacement, look is he playing there? Kdb was brought for what? CM, wing? Now we get another CM; Ginkel. Great! Its cool with all the talent etc, but this isnt Fifa or we want to fake Arsenal, I dont know...should sign experienced players that will be replaced with these youngsters eventualy...

He's nothing like KDB, in what ways is he similar? KDB will never play in the pivot, he might get a run-out as an attacking CM in a 4-3-3 but that's it. Van Ginkel on the other hand is solely for the pivot/midfield. Defensively, he's miles miles better than KDB. KDB is an attacking player, wherever he'll play his instinct is to attack (it should be, this is where his value lies). Van Ginkel is a box-to-box mid who will look to control the midfield, provide defensive cover, tackling, positional discipline and with him you get a bonus of goals thanks to his great movement and deep runs from midfield, ala Lampard.

[Tomo 21,733]

The pivot in particular is in dire need of a world class talent or some experience.

Hyjack Paulinho's move to Tottenham and get Luis Gustavo (who fell behind Martinez in the pecking order), then our pivot is sorted

Speaking of Martinez it's painful watching him knowing just how perfect he will be for us.

[Jase 43,479]

Hyjack Paulinho's move to Tottenham and get Luis Gustavo (who fell behind Martinez in the pecking order), then our pivot is sorted

Speaking of Martinez it's painful watching him knowing just how perfect he will be for us.

You have just made that painful feeling even worse...

[edetarod 2,155]

he's going to start with Ramires probably

[The Mak 4,459]

Speaking of Martinez it's painful watching him knowing just how perfect he will be for us.

Don't....just don't

[Amblève. 4,995]

I wish we had gone for a more experienced and better player than van Ginkel. Sigh.

[Jusek 2,031]

I wish we had gone for a more experienced and better player than van Ginkel. Sigh.

We'll get De Rossi...hopefully.

[Tomo 21,733]

You have just made that painful feeling even worse...

Don't....just don't

Clear example of an expensive risk paying off ten fold (im not going to say what i would usually say next because if i do this thread will do stupidly off topic).

[Barbara 15,149]

earlier from my phone I read some comments in this thread and other threads about how we're signing players that won't solve our problems now, that we have way too many players for the same position/zone... I think this sort of reasoning is not right for a team like Chelsea. Not anymore anyway.

We already won every trophy that is out there to win, so unless we want to prove we are no one-time-wonder we need to start planning ahead of a couple of seasons and that what I feel the club is doing now.

It isn't a great moment for England football when it comes to producing players (how do you guys say 'cantera' in English? Where spies get kids no older than 14 and bring to play with the youth?). Unfortunately there aren't many English players among the very top, so it's hard for Chelsea (or any other English club) to try to invest in discovering kids and developing them if there aren't many amazing players coming from there nowadays. Unless the club does what Barcelona did with Messi for example - getting him in the club when he was 14 - chances are we won't discover the next Ballon d'Or in England - although I hope it gets better there, there are some English players I really love throughout the history and I really love English football.

What the club is doing now is very important than reaching FFP requirements. A team like Bayern and Barcelona - that are undoubtedly the best teams in the world - isn't built like Monaco, PSG and even Chelsea (in recent past) do: buy everyone and their mothers for the next season and target on UCL. How many times have that really worked?

It's about creating a culture, a long-time and lasting structure, changing paradigms and establishing a vision and philosophy that will dictate how the club works. That's when bold targets can not only be achieved, but repeated consistently. When we look to Barça and Bayern we know what kind of team they are, they're known by everyone for at least one characteristic in their style and that requires time. Go read what Bayern's president said last year about building the best team in the world. That was a project they started working on about a decade ago (or longer, I'm not sure about the date). The same goes with Barça (it was Pep who started it there). And there's something in common with both mentalities: the work starts with the kids.

Those guys we've been signing for the last couple of seasons are 17-20 years old and that age needs to be reduced even more. This isn't about making Chelsea the team everyone will fear next season or the team that will win everything there is to win next season. This is a club that is already big becoming great, doing what needs to be done to make history just like this Barça has done. I don't know if Roman or Emenalo have a project like Barça and Bayern had, but seeing how we completely changed the way we approach the market in the last two seasons, I think there's more than just getting ready to win UCL next season or another EPL title.

That's the difference between greatness and titles holders. As a fan I want my team to mark the history not only by being the only Londoner UCL champion, but being a team everyone will remember and talk about for decades to come, a team that figures among the most impressive teams in the history and that won't happen if we continue to think of the team to the next season. A philosophy, a style and project need to be done and although no one (as far as I can say) is going out there to announce what they're planning to do with the team for let's say a decade from now, I believe it doesn't seem like their biggest concern is to win everything next season. They seem to have much bolder goals these days and the word in my heart and mind about it is: FINALLY.

So welcome, Ginkel.

[manpe 10,861]

Who's this guy? Is he someone who's most likely going to get loaned out, placed in reserves or is he someone who's going to have an impact right from the start? What position does he play exactly (I know he's a central midfielder, but what kind)?

[BlueLyon 9,359]

earlier from my phone I read some comments in this thread and other threads about how we're signing players that won't solve our problems now, that we have way too many players for the same position/zone... I think this sort of reasoning is not right for a team like Chelsea. Not anymore anyway.

We already won every trophy that is out there to win, so unless we want to prove we are no one-time-wonder we need to start planning ahead of a couple of seasons and that what I feel the club is doing now.

It isn't a great moment for England football when it comes to producing players (how do you guys say 'cantera' in English? Where spies get kids no older than 14 and bring to play with the youth?). Unfortunately there aren't many English players among the very top, so it's hard for Chelsea (or any other English club) to try to invest in discovering kids and developing them if there aren't many amazing players coming from there nowadays. Unless the club does what Barcelona did with Messi for example - getting him in the club when he was 14 - chances are we won't discover the next Ballon d'Or in England - although I hope it gets better there, there are some English players I really love throughout the history and I really love English football.

What the club is doing now is very important than reaching FFP requirements. A team like Bayern and Barcelona - that are undoubtedly the best teams in the world - isn't built like Monaco, PSG and even Chelsea (in recent past) do: buy everyone and their mothers for the next season and target on UCL. How many times have that really worked?

It's about creating a culture, a long-time and lasting structure, changing paradigms and establishing a vision and philosophy that will dictate how the club works. That's when bold targets can not only be achieved, but repeated consistently. When we look to Barça and Bayern we know what kind of team they are, they're known by everyone for at least one characteristic in their style and that requires time. Go read what Bayern's president said last year about building the best team in the world. That was a project they started working on about a decade ago (or longer, I'm not sure about the date). The same goes with Barça (it was Pep who started it there). And there's something in common with both mentalities: the work starts with the kids.

Those guys we've been signing for the last couple of seasons are 17-20 years old and that age needs to be reduced even more. This isn't about making Chelsea the team everyone will fear next season or the team that will win everything there is to win next season. This is a club that is already big becoming great, doing what needs to be done to make history just like this Barça has done. I don't know if Roman or Emenalo have a project like Barça and Bayern had, but seeing how we completely changed the way we approach the market in the last two seasons, I think there's more than just getting ready to win UCL next season or another EPL title.

That's the difference between greatness and titles holders. As a fan I want my team to mark the history not only by being the only Londoner UCL champion, but being a team everyone will remember and talk about for decades to come, a team that figures among the most impressive teams in the history and that won't happen if we continue to think of the team to the next season. A philosophy, a style and project need to be done and although no one (as far as I can say) is going out there to announce what they're planning to do with the team for let's say a decade from now, I believe it doesn't seem like their biggest concern is to win everything next season. They seem to have much bolder goals these days and the word in my heart and mind about it is: FINALLY.

So welcome, Ginkel.

This will happen only with permament coach and sane board. If we want team for future with healthy relations, we need to make Mourinho our coach for next 5 years, NO MATTER WHAT.

Now ask yourself; Is Roman going to do that?

I hope he will and all our young players including Kdb, Mazacar, Ginkel, Romeu,...and homegrown like Chalobah, Rlc,...will make our team world beaters in couple of years, but I fear we are overloaded at some positions. I support the project and will support club decisions no matter what, but in the end, it could work or not. Its not guaranteed. And we dont realy have the experience to put young players in first team (Oscar or Azpi were quite known when we signed them, difference will be with Chalobah or Rlc).

Last thing is this: WHY WE ALWAYS BUY? WE HAVE RLC OR CHALOBAH WHO ARE BOTH YOUNG PROSPECTS. WHY SIGN KONDOGBIA OR GINKEL THEN? WHY NOT GIVE THAT ROLE TO OUR PLAYERS INSTEAD OF LOAN THEM? THAT WILL MAKE US GREAT TEAM, HAVING OUR OWN WORLD CLASS PLAYERS WHO WERE RAISED AT COBHAM. NOT JUST BUY, BUY, BUY OTHER TALENTS.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

This will happen only with permament coach and sane board. If we want team for future with healthy relations, we need to make Mourinho our coach for next 5 years, NO MATTER WHAT.

Now ask yourself; Is Roman going to do that?

I hope he will and all our young players including Kdb, Mazacar, Ginkel, Romeu,...and homegrown like Chalobah, Rlc,...will make our team world beaters in couple of years, but I fear we are overloaded at some positions. I support the project and will support club decisions no matter what, but in the end, it could work or not. Its not guaranteed. And we dont realy have the experience to put young players in first team (Oscar or Azpi were quite known when we signed them, difference will be with Chalobah or Rlc).

Last thing is this: WHY WE ALWAYS BUY? WE HAVE RLC OR CHALOBAH WHO ARE BOTH YOUNG PROSPECTS. WHY SIGN KONDOGBIA OR GINKEL THEN? WHY NOT GIVE THAT ROLE TO OUR PLAYERS INSTEAD OF LOAN THEM? THAT WILL MAKE US GREAT TEAM, HAVING OUR OWN WORLD CLASS PLAYERS WHO WERE RAISED AT COBHAM. NOT JUST BUY, BUY, BUY OTHER TALENTS.

Chalobah is only 18 and has only had 1 season and that in the Championship. You're on something if you think we should put that kind of responsibility on a guy that young. He needs consistent time in the EPL to develop before he's ready for Chelsea. Van Ginkel has already played 120 games for Vitesse, he's a full international for Netherlands and will most likely be part of their world cup squad next year. Now you tell me which player we have in our midfield ranks that is that far in their development?

And, don't even mention RLC, dude is 16, by the time he gets to 20, 21, Lamps, Essien, Mikel will be all gone, Ramires will be close to the end of his career and Van Ginkel would be our first choice starter alongside Chalobah most likely.

I understand what you're saying, but Van Ginkel thread def isn't the place to bring this up in. Van Ginkel is the same place in his development as Oscar was last year and KDB, Lukaku are this year. They have had good experience and can help the first team. Chalobah is two steps behind (another loan) then Chelsea squad, and RLC is 3 (championship loan, EPL loan, Chelsea). And, guys like Lewis Baker and Ake aren't good enough to make it for Chelsea imo. They'll still have a good career and owe a lot of Chelsea academy for developing them and handling their loans, but they aren't as good prospects as RLC and Chalobah.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Chalobah is only 18 and has only had 1 season and that in the Championship. You're on something if you think we should put that kind of responsibility on a guy that young. He needs consistent time in the EPL to develop before he's ready for Chelsea. Van Ginkel has already played 120 games for Vitesse, he's a full international for Netherlands and will most likely be part of their world cup squad next year. Now you tell me which player we have in our midfield ranks that is that far in their development?

And, don't even mention RLC, dude is 16, by the time he gets to 20, 21, Lamps, Essien, Mikel will be all gone, Ramires will be close to the end of his career and Van Ginkel would be our first choice starter alongside Chalobah most likely.

I understand what you're saying, but Van Ginkel thread def isn't the place to bring this up in. Van Ginkel is the same place in his development as Oscar was last year and KDB, Lukaku are this year. They have had good experience and can help the first team. Chalobah is two steps behind (another loan) then Chelsea squad, and RLC is 3 (championship loan, EPL loan, Chelsea). And, guys like Lewis Baker and Ake aren't good enough to make it for Chelsea imo. They'll still have a good career and owe a lot of Chelsea academy for developing them and handling their loans, but they aren't as good prospects as RLC and Chalobah.

So where exactly will Chalobah and Rlc play at age 20-21 when Ginkel and rest will be even more experienced? Where will they get experience? On loans to be forgotten? Because they wont get much play time. We should sign someone like De Rossi and rotate him with Rambo, Lamps, Romeu,..while Rlc and Chalobah would get chances in Fa and Carling.

Besides point of transition seasons is that you give chance to young players, not win games and titles. If Chalobah or Rlc would get 20 games next season, we might finish 4th with zero trophies, but Rlc and Chalobah would get more experience. Point of transition season, I guess many here expect youth to just pop in the team and we will still play top football all the time...

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

So where exactly will Chalobah and Rlc play at age 20-21 when Ginkel and rest will be even more experienced? Where will they get experience? On loans to be forgotten? Because they wont get much play time. We should sign someone like De Rossi and rotate him with Rambo, Lamps, Romeu,..while Rlc and Chalobah would get chances in Fa and Carling.

Besides point of transition seasons is that you give chance to young players, not win games and titles. If Chalobah or Rlc would get 20 games next season, we might finish 4th with zero trophies, but Rlc and Chalobah would get more experience. Point of transition season, I guess many here expect youth to just pop in the team and we will still play top football all the time...

Who is Ginkel and the rest?

When Chalobah is 21, we'll have Mikel, Ramires, Romeu and Van Ginkel only.

When RLC is 21, we'll have Romeu and Van Ginkel only.

I really don't see what you're talking about being overcrowded.

Point of transition season is definitely NOT to finish 4th but blood in youngsters. Point of a transition season is move towards a different set of players, playing style etc. You could buy 6 30 year olds and integrate them next season and that will still be called a transition season. Transition has absolutely nothing to do with integrating youth into the team. If you want to integrate youth and be content with 4th then have fun turning Chelsea into Arsenal for the next 10 years.

Chelsea's transition is not to get younger (that's a by product thanks to good scouting). Our transition is the immersion of a new playing style, with a new set of players. Emenalo has done an amazing job to ensure the new set is still very young too.

Chalobah and RLC will gain experience playing in Chelsea, but it'll be at a cost. Getting babied through a long season with Carling Cup and useless games can only help so much. You know what's good experience? Chalobah fighting for his and his team's life in the Championship for a playoff spot, that's good experience, not a Carling Cup game where he gets 30 minutes after we're up 5 goals. Right now, their physical and technical development is more important than experience. Experience will come in due time. It's a myth when people say these youth kids need experience. Yes they need some top level experience but priority should be towards their physical and technical development before you shove some experience down their throat. They are still kids for god's sakes. They need consistent playing time wherever that may be, they need specialized training and top level coaching.

Physical, technical development comes first for teenagers. Once they are far in that development, then start worrying about experience. Oscar, KDB, Lukaku and Van Ginkel. These guys have been through their initial development stage and are now on their path to amass experience at the top level to be able to cope with the pressures of being at a club like Chelsea (I would say Lukaku is still very raw, but he's a freak athelete so he's an exception). Chalobah, RLC, McEachran are still in their initial stages of development. They need to focus on other things before we start worrying about whether they've had good experience.