Respect the fans

[The only place to be 11,313]

I might be wrong but didnt you say in one of your posts youve been going for years ? I dont think theres one fan I know goes to regular games that isnt fucked off with Gourlay, Buck etc.

The academy is window dressing, almost without exception the first team are bought off the (Waitrose)shelf. As for outside investment anyone working in a telesales call centre could sell advertisng space to a World club that has blanket TV coverage. I dont think it takes a genius.

I don't seem to remember Bates and Hutchinson being particularly popular to be honest. It's part of the reason Harding was so beloved.

I don't remember Kenyon being at all liked either, but I don't expect the board to be. They get stick at most clubs, but the work they've done on the financial side of the team has been pretty impressive and I see the academy as being vital to our future. The problem comes in the gap between the reserves/youth team and the first-team, but that's the same at almost every top club in Europe.

[Fulham Broadway 17,319]

I don't seem to remember Bates and Hutchinson being particularly popular to be honest. It's part of the reason Harding was so beloved.

I don't remember Kenyon being at all liked either, but I don't expect the board to be. They get stick at most clubs, but the work they've done on the financial side of the team has been pretty impressive and I see the academy as being vital to our future. The problem comes in the gap between the reserves/youth team and the first-team, but that's the same at almost every top club in Europe.

Hutchinson was a player, I have his autograph -much loved by the fans, not on the board.

Youre not a troll or Ron Gourlay in disguise are you ?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Let's be honest, you don't do a stint at MK Dons, get sacked from West Brom, and then waltz in to CFC and win the Champions League and an FA Cup. It's far too fortunate. Some great performances and a lot of luck was involved.

Mourinho was at Uniau di Leira. Ancelotti was at Parma, Alex Ferguson started at East Stirlingshire. Raffa started at Etramadura. That's how managers get their start. Then, they get given time to develop into big names. Do you really think if Guardiola were at MK Dons, he'd have them winning the Champions League?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Hutchinson was a player, I have his autograph -much loved by the fans, not on the board.

Youre not a troll or Ron Gourlay in disguise are you ?

Are you confusing Colin Hutchinson with Ian Hutchinson?

I have both of their autographs too.

[Fulham Broadway 17,319]

Are you confusing Colin Hutchinson with Ian Hutchinson?

I have both of their autographs too.

Strange to have Colin Hutchinsons autograph -as you said he was unpopular.

No player of any merit has been promoted from the academy since 1990s. It has however produced 'factory seconds' that have been farmed out to other teams eg Borini, Kakuta. But with acquisitions such as Hazard, Oscar, Marin, it doesnt bode well for anyone coming through directly.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I completely disagree with your assessment of our academy. There are players will real potential like McEachran, Chalobah and Feruz who I think will establish themselves in our first team. Then there are players like Piazon, Ake, Swift and Kane who could go either way and either become first-teamers, squad players or sold on for a decent price.

Then there are the youngsters we've bought in like Courtois who is already one of the most exciting young prospects in his position. It's virtually unheard of for a team to go from one world-class keeper to another. Look at United after Schmeichel. They were flawed in that position until the got Van Der Sar, and now he's gone they're struggling.

There's also the De Bruynes, Wallaces and Lukakus that we've taken punts on.

I wouldn't call those last three punts. We spent about 25M pounds on them. (Basically an average Premier League team's spending on all transfers). This is what we do. It's the opposite of the academy. We like other youngsters and we buy them and loan them out. McEachran is playing OK in the Championship. He's been playing mostly on the right wing. He has no goals and 2 assists in 16 matches. He's not about to come in and take Mata's job. Chalobah has played 10 professional games and Feruz hasn't played any. These players are all a long, long way from Chelsea first team action and will probably never get there. Talent is like a pyramid. There are lots of 17 and 18 year olds with the potential to be fantastic players but as you go up in age, there become fewer and fewer of them. For every 50 "he's going to be great" players at 17, maybe 1 is great at 23. People like getting excited by these players and that's fine, but I think it's ridiculous to expect anything from these players. Chelsea are going to keep buying top class players and you can't be a team who buys tons of players and also develops youngsters. We'll continue to let other clubs develop them for us.

[Fulham Broadway 17,319]

I wouldn't call those last three punts. We spent about 25M pounds on them. (Basically an average Premier League team's spending on all transfers). This is what we do. It's the opposite of the academy. We like other youngsters and we buy them and loan them out. McEachran is playing OK in the Championship. He's been playing mostly on the right wing. He has no goals and 2 assists in 16 matches. He's not about to come in and take Mata's job. Chalobah has played 10 professional games and Feruz hasn't played any. These players are all a long, long way from Chelsea first team action and will probably never get there. Talent is like a pyramid. There are lots of 17 and 18 year olds with the potential to be fantastic players but as you go up in age, there become fewer and fewer of them. For every 50 "he's going to be great" players at 17, maybe 1 is great at 23. People like getting excited by these players and that's fine, but I think it's ridiculous to expect anything from these players. Chelsea are going to keep buying top class players and you can't be a team who buys tons of players and also develops youngsters. We'll continue to let other clubs develop them for us.

Exactly. Fans get excited by the prospects of a Josh or youngster making it. Youth team players, will always want to make the grade, which is the reason for the special relationship they have with the fans. The CL success was enabled by ready made players and as such its a perpetual cycle.

Without that success, we could have not had any of these (Oscars, marins, Hazards) players coming to Stamford Bridge. .

[The only place to be 11,313]

Strange to have Colin Hutchinsons autograph -as you said he was unpopular.

No player of any merit has been promoted from the academy since 1990s. It has however produced 'factory seconds' that have been farmed out to other teams eg Borini, Kakuta. But with acquisitions such as Hazard, Oscar, Marin, it doesnt bode well for anyone coming through directly.

It's strange, but I used to get the autographs of actors from The Bill went they went to the Bridge. I've got Alec Stewart's at least twice and god knows how many Erland Johnson autographs I've got (always with drips of sweat).

But I assume you were confusing the Hutchinsons. It's an easy mistake I suppose.

The academy hasn't produced what it should have. But I personally think the current crop of youngsters has some real gems in it, moreso than any period that I can personally remember. It's that step between the academy and the first-team that is the problem, but it's not just our club that suffers with it. Hopefully the recent changes in youth competitions help remedy that.

I wouldn't call those last three punts. We spent about 25M pounds on them. (Basically an average Premier League team's spending on all transfers). This is what we do. It's the opposite of the academy. We like other youngsters and we buy them and loan them out. McEachran is playing OK in the Championship. He's been playing mostly on the right wing. He has no goals and 2 assists in 16 matches. He's not about to come in and take Mata's job. Chalobah has played 10 professional games and Feruz hasn't played any. These players are all a long, long way from Chelsea first team action and will probably never get there. Talent is like a pyramid. There are lots of 17 and 18 year olds with the potential to be fantastic players but as you go up in age, there become fewer and fewer of them. For every 50 "he's going to be great" players at 17, maybe 1 is great at 23. People like getting excited by these players and that's fine, but I think it's ridiculous to expect anything from these players. Chelsea are going to keep buying top class players and you can't be a team who buys tons of players and also develops youngsters. We'll continue to let other clubs develop them for us.

Firstly, McEachran started on the right wing but has been moved centrally alongside Leadbitter recently and has been doing very well. His stats might not be all that but if you watch his games and listen to Boro fans, you can see how important he is to that team. He also isn't a Mata - he's primarily suited to a much deeper role, akin to a Xavi or Modric who keeps the team ticking over with the ball.

Chalobah has also been key to Watford's start to the season and looks closer to a first-team start for us then anyone expected.

Feruz is younger than the other two but I'd expect to see him step up next season.

It isn't ridiculous to think these players could be part of our club going forward, but we should be cautious with them. i think your final sentence is completely out of step with what everyone at the club envisions for Chelsea going forward. I think there will be a mix of players bought in who are already established, players who are bought in from other club's academies and then loaned out (de Bruyne, Courtois etc.) and then players who come up through the ranks (McEachran, Chalobah, Loftus-Cheek).

That is the sensible approach and that's the one the club wants.

[ChelseaChelsea 37]

This just adds to it.

I don't see anybody coming out AVBs arse for his contribution to our FA Cup and Champions League win.

Very long post. But let me just reply to this part and hopefully you will understand.

When AVB left, we were going for a FA cup replay away at Birmingham because we drew against this Championship team at the Bridge. So poor was our performance

We were trailing 3-1 away from Napoli. And body language of the players was so poor that it looked quite impossible for us to progress.

RDM has left us with a win against Man Utd in league cup, and you need to be the Champions of Europe to enter CWC. Guess we won the UCl under whom?

[Tomo 21,751]

Another kneejerk thread, reading these you would think we are the only club that sacks managers.

Inter, Porto, Ajax, Bayern and Real have gone through manager's at the same rate we have since 2003 are you saying Moratti for example has no respect for the Inter fans?

The days of managerial stability is dying out, when Ferguson has retired they will be gone completely (atleast at top clubs winning things). If were lucky were find a long term manager, long term being 3-5 years, but ive learned to accept that any longer will never happen.

[nullabletype 987]

Mourinho was at Uniau di Leira. Ancelotti was at Parma, Alex Ferguson started at East Stirlingshire. Raffa started at Etramadura. That's how managers get their start. Then, they get given time to develop into big names. Do you really think if Guardiola were at MK Dons, he'd have them winning the Champions League?

Pointless comment because none of those managers came to CFC off the back of those teams mentioned. They started out with those smaller sides, and went on to have a further incremental step in their managerial careers before coming to us. RDM never got that next step.

Very long post. But let me just reply to this part and hopefully you will understand.

When AVB left, we were going for a FA cup replay away at Birmingham because we drew against this Championship team at the Bridge. So poor was our performance

We were trailing 3-1 away from Napoli. And body language of the players was so poor that it looked quite impossible for us to progress.

RDM has left us with a win against Man Utd in league cup, and you need to be the Champions of Europe to enter CWC. Guess we won the UCl under whom?

RDM left us precariously on the edge of being knocked out of the Champions League (relying on other teams to help us qualify no less.). Defeated and drawing against teams we should, by all rights, be beating. You're taking from this what you want to and creating your own narrative.

[Tomo 21,751]

Any one who's upset with Roman, lets get Hicks and Gillet in, then you will truly have cause to be upset.

[ChelseaChelsea 37]

RDM left us in precariously on the edge of being knocked out of the Champions League. Defeated and drawing against teams we should, by all rights be beating. You're taking from this what you want to and creating your own narrative.

Alex was not talking about our current UCL campaign. He was saying about League Cup, CWC, top three finish.

So, I made that reply and you replied by quoting my comment. So, my comment had nothing to do with our 2012-2013 UCL run. It' was mainly about League Cup and CWC.

Defeated and drawing against teams we should, by all rights be beating . I believe you could have said this had there been a quality striker with us. Also, away games at Shakthar and Juve are not so easy. I am looking forward to post-RDM era though. Eagerly waiting to see what 'Experienced' Rafa can give us which RDM could not have given us.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

It isn't ridiculous to think these players could be part of our club going forward, but we should be cautious with them. i think your final sentence is completely out of step with what everyone at the club envisions for Chelsea going forward. I think there will be a mix of players bought in who are already established, players who are bought in from other club's academies and then loaned out (de Bruyne, Courtois etc.) and then players who come up through the ranks (McEachran, Chalobah, Loftus-Cheek).

That is the sensible approach and that's the one the club wants.

But it's not going to happen. Look at this season. We have massive holes all over the pitch. It's the perfect season to be playing our youngsters. Sturridge who was excellent on loan at a Premier League side and then was our leading scorer last season can't get into games even though our first-choice striker has been awful. We have no real second striker and we still loan out Lukaku. We have no central midfielders and we still loan out De Bruyne and McEachran. This is the least depth Chelsea are likely to have for years and our youngsters still can't get into the squad in a rebuilding year, what chance do they have down the line when we buy reinforcements? We've been chasing midfielders like Modric and Moutinho. McEachran isn't going to get in ahead of these sorts of players. You think Islam Feruz is going to challenge Falcao or Cavani or whatever world-class striker we buy? You think Roman will panic over poor results but let unproven young players make mistakes? Not a chance. Roman has always spent to buy talent and will continue to do so.

The proof is in the pudding. Until we actually start to give young players a real chance to make the team, I am going to consider the academy a breeding ground for future transfers. There are teams that develop younger players and teams that don't. Last week, ManU had 6 players on their squad that were homegrown. Chelsea had one. If this winter and next summer, instead of spending 80M pounds or whatever, we just rely on our youngsters, I'll agree with you. I'm not holding my breath.

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

I've been following CFC home and away since the ''glory'' days of 1976. Loved it, despite some awful teams, crap stadiums and rubbish treatment from police and stewards. We I board the train in Sussex with my mates to head to the game, it's as exciting as when I was a teenager.

That said, after the dreadful way that Di Matteo was treated and then to hire Benetiz I'm ashamed and angry at our club. I shall go to the Nordsjaelland game to protest and that will be my last game this season. The owner and his board of muppet yes-men clearly have no regard or respect for the fans. We are the heart and soul that Roman can't buy!

won't make a button of difference mate but good luck to you. Wouldn't personally be my stance but can't fault you

[Tomo 21,751]

But it's not going to happen. Look at this season. We have massive holes all over the pitch. It's the perfect season to be playing our youngsters. Sturridge who was excellent on loan at a Premier League side and then was our leading scorer last season can't get into games even though our first-choice striker has been awful. We have no real second striker and we still loan out Lukaku. We have no central midfielders and we still loan out De Bruyne and McEachran. This is the least depth Chelsea are likely to have for years and our youngsters still can't get into the squad in a rebuilding year, what chance do they have down the line when we buy reinforcements? We've been chasing midfielders like Modric and Moutinho. McEachran isn't going to get in ahead of these sorts of players. You think Islam Feruz is going to challenge Falcao or Cavani or whatever world-class striker we buy? You think Roman will panic over poor results but let unproven young players make mistakes? Not a chance. Roman has always spent to buy talent and will continue to do so.

The proof is in the pudding. Until we actually start to give young players a real chance to make the team, I am going to consider the academy a breeding ground for future transfers. There are teams that develop younger players and teams that don't. Last week, ManU had 6 players on their squad that were homegrown. Chelsea had one. If this winter and next summer, instead of spending 80M pounds or whatever, we just rely on our youngsters, I'll agree with you. I'm not holding my breath.

Which homegrown players did United have? Welbeck? Rooney? Ferdinand? all of them were either brought or not trusted until they had a full premier league season on loan.

You say Fergie is good with academy players, then why didn't he give two academy defenders a chance instead of splashing £30m combined on Smalling and Jones. Why didn't he give an academy forward a chance instead of splashing out £30 on Rooney? At top clubs challenging for trophies there is too much pressure to randomenly promote academy players, even for some one who's job security is as high as Fergie's who is still living off that freak golden generation he's produced nothing but the odd squad player since then, Fletcher aside, yes Welbeck and Cleverly, but he didn't promote them randomenly, he didn't trust them properly until they proved themself's on loan in the Premier League and if our academy players want to stand a chance here, they need to do the same.

We could become a model where we do play every half decent academy player in the first team, but not only will we be a mid table club, we would lose them by the time their 22.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Pointless comment because none of those managers came to CFC off the back of those teams mentioned. They started out with those smaller sides, and went on to have a further incremental step in their managerial careers before coming to us. RDM never got that next step.

RDM left us precariously on the edge of being knocked out of the Champions League (relying on other teams to help us qualify no less.). Defeated and drawing against teams we should, by all rights, be beating. You're taking from this what you want to and creating your own narrative.

Wow...we didn't every game we should have won??? That's horrible. We should fire every coach who does that!!! (which is every single coach) This is the exact ridiculous expectations fans have. It's so annoying. "He should have made this substitution", "he should have played this formation" like there's some sort of magic formula to winning. Sometimes, it's just the players. Everyone wants to be the manager and because their formations and tactics never actually get tested, they are never wrong...and even when they are implemented and don't work, you can just blame some other aspect of the managing. From January through March 2006, Chelsea drew at home to Charlton, tied Villa and Birmingham City away, lost to Fulham, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, and Newcastle. We dropped points in 7 of our last 16 games. All of them winnable. Was Mourinho over his head? Was he tactically unaware because we dropped points to teams we shouldn't have? We had a far better team, facing much worse competition and we had much less excuse for losing. Mourinho should have been sacked then.

And as for the first part, it's pertinent. You don't need to get a manager who has managed a big club before. You just need a manager who wins. Our only to visits to the CL finals were under Di Matteo and Grant our two least experienced managers. All managers start somewhere and feeling like you need to get a big name is just insecurity.

[ChelseaChelsea 37]

@ Toronto,

Well said. Also consider Real's early season performance in La Liga. And then recent performance in UCL especially against Dortmund. They have finished as Group runners-up.

[The only place to be 11,313]

But it's not going to happen. Look at this season. We have massive holes all over the pitch. It's the perfect season to be playing our youngsters. Sturridge who was excellent on loan at a Premier League side and then was our leading scorer last season can't get into games even though our first-choice striker has been awful. We have no real second striker and we still loan out Lukaku. We have no central midfielders and we still loan out De Bruyne and McEachran. This is the least depth Chelsea are likely to have for years and our youngsters still can't get into the squad in a rebuilding year, what chance do they have down the line when we buy reinforcements? We've been chasing midfielders like Modric and Moutinho. McEachran isn't going to get in ahead of these sorts of players. You think Islam Feruz is going to challenge Falcao or Cavani or whatever world-class striker we buy? You think Roman will panic over poor results but let unproven young players make mistakes? Not a chance. Roman has always spent to buy talent and will continue to do so.

The proof is in the pudding. Until we actually start to give young players a real chance to make the team, I am going to consider the academy a breeding ground for future transfers. There are teams that develop younger players and teams that don't. Last week, ManU had 6 players on their squad that were homegrown. Chelsea had one. If this winter and next summer, instead of spending 80M pounds or whatever, we just rely on our youngsters, I'll agree with you. I'm not holding my breath.

Our youngsters simply aren't ready yet. That crop I'm talking about are still a season away from being ready at least. In my view we're in uncharted territory because we've never had a crop like this, which makes sense because the academy is relatively new in it's current form.

Chucking youngsters into a team that is struggling in some areas but still needs to qualify for the Champions League would be a big mistake. We aren't Liverpool who aren't targeting a top four finish.

We're essentially in a holding pattern. That's why we sent so many kids out on loan, so they could come back next season with some experience under their belts. From what I've seen, read and heard about them, a few of them will be straight into the squad.

I absolutely believe McEachran has the skill and vision to be our Modric. It's the physical side of the game he struggles with, but at Boro he's improved on these elements.

Chalobah looks to have everything he needs to be a Premier League player. He's stepped up to meet every challenge he's had in his short career and could be something very special indeed. Feruz has everything too. There's no guarantee with any young player but let's not pretend this is Jody Morris, Mark Nicholls, David Hopkin and Doooooobs.

And as for the first part, it's pertinent. You don't need to get a manager who has managed a big club before. You just need a manager who wins. Our only to visits to the CL finals were under Di Matteo and Grant our two least experienced managers. All managers start somewhere and feeling like you need to get a big name is just insecurity.

Clearly our owner does need a 'name'. He wants another Mourinho, and he sees Guardiola as that guy.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

The understanding here needs to be that plainly this: The board and Roman never wanted Di Matteo to lead this rejuvenation for this squad. It was a mere obligation for them to hire Di Matteo because of his successes last season, and I think that's something we should've seen in hindsight. It's basically putting it this way, had Avram Grant won the Champions League in 2008 the same thing would've happened.. The sequence would've been identical.

Of course we have the right to be angry, frustrated and disappointed at the complexity of these issues at our club. This club's been through the brink of liquidation to vast wealth that some of us never fathomed. We've been through the heartbreak of Moscow to the jubilation of Munich. From the heartbreak of waving Mourinho away to the joy of the potential of Villas-Boas.

My point is, a lot changes in football. Finances, players, management even ownership.. But the fans must be the ones who unite and stick with the club through all that. The fans still make this club, irrespective of the board's decisions. The fans have a large say on club's dealings (case & point: CPO saga). We have to believe in this club, believe in the owner & believe in ourselves as fans to get us through all this.

Carefree wherever we may be.