The Benitez Thread

[robdog 2,084]

wonder why Esk doesn't post on here anymore? His academy reports were so good to read.

Contact him on twitter or on his blog.

[communicate 2,703]

How did Jose's leaving halt our dominance? Mourinho was our manager in 2006-2007 when we had IMO our most talented team ever and we didn't win. We blew it in the last weeks of the season. The next year, still with an extremely talented team, we got off to a terrible start and Mourinho was fired. We played much better under Grant. Next year, we had elite talent but some very serious injuries and bad form. Still, we finished third and made it to the semi-finals of the CL. The next year, we still had an elite team but had not spent much money and the money we were spending was wasted, so we had a distinct lack of depth. We lack dominance because we never replaced our core. That's all. Nothing to do with managers.

Good post. For me players are far more important than manger. We are a little bit late in term of rebuilding our core. We should have started before ance was hired but we did won double with him.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

How did Jose's leaving halt our dominance? Mourinho was our manager in 2006-2007 when we had IMO our most talented team ever and we didn't win. We blew it in the last weeks of the season. The next year, still with an extremely talented team, we got off to a terrible start and Mourinho was fired. We played much better under Grant. Next year, we had elite talent but some very serious injuries and bad form. Still, we finished third and made it to the semi-finals of the CL. The next year, we still had an elite team but had not spent much money and the money we were spending was wasted, so we had a distinct lack of depth. We lack dominance because we never replaced our core. That's all. Nothing to do with managers.

No, we actually finished 2nd and made it to the CL final with Grant if u mean that year. If not, your last "next year" would be 2009/10 were we actually did waste a bit money in summer (Zhirkov), but we had great depth, that is why we won the double and had one of our best seasons ever.

Also the rest is rather inaccurate. In the 2006/7 season ManU were off with a 9 goal lead since February. In the sequence of some bad injuries most notable Robben an Terry we had a torrid Winter. We had to play with players like Boulahrouz in CB in crucial games. Though of course we should have done beter. Also Shevchenko's arrival meant a Torres-like situation, we were forced to play two strikers instead of 4-3-3 (best system ever). I don't think we had our most talented team then, I honestly think we got it now, but in terms of players and names only we probably got our best team then.

Mourinho's last acquisitions were all shit, maybe he tried to be extra clever, but Mous big fault always was to buy too many average players instead of one great one. We actually spent on Anelka, Deco and Bosingwa which all were IMO quite good signings at that time. We actually had real great depth in that season (2008/9), the problem was, Scolari is a shitty manager. Hiddink turned it around in the end. So it really depends on the manager. A brilliant manager can turn a good side into a great one and win titles, bad managers are at fault, that we did not win more titles in the seasons we had the best squad in the league. So, of course players are the basis, but the manager is the one who should bring the best out of them. If u got great players, who "coach themselves alone" the manager does not matter that much, but only if he leaves them freedom. But when the manager always wants to win over the players and is wrong with his ideas, the best squad is useless.

But get our overall point. We did not replace our core in time. It all could have been worse, if Lamps and Drogs had not performed for us tremendously in spite of their advanced age. We still do not have a real "new" core now and our squad is quite raw, we got some quality players, but not enough of them to merge them into a system that would make us a world-class side again. Also Benitez is no one you can aim high with. This season is also not "transition". Benitez is at best a freeze for our development, he got no clue how to develop the talent we got. There is nothing changing unless we actually bring some new players in adn get rid of the ones that do not provide. Next season, with some returning loanees and maybe some new signings we will have more of a squad and the job at our hands to merge them into one system, but what we got now is only the remainings of the old core and some random signings thrown into a a stiff standard system playing with Rafa's off the rack tactics. Nothing great, nothing new and nothing better to expect.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Summary of benitez accomplishments

1. getting title run back on track - fail

2. world club cup - fail

3. finals of league cup - fail

4. finally getting Torres firing - fail

5. improving fitness due to squad rotation -fail

6. putting david luiz in midfield

7. improved defensive stability

[zolayes 14,489]

Summary of benitez accomplishments

1. getting title run back on track - fail

2. world club cup - fail

3. finals of league cup - fail

4. finally getting Torres firing - fail

5. improving fitness due to squad rotation -fail

6. putting david luiz in midfield

7. improved defensive stability

so 5 2 down before HT

[Laylabelle 9,534]

Uusally when a Manager comes in half way everything turns around,becomes amazing and roses..this time the complete opposite!!

[Tomo 21,751]

I think Rafa has done ok.

Ok there is the bad home form but the away form is as good as it's been since the early Scolari days. If the home-away form was reversed would any one being batting an eyelid?

Our inconsistent form is nothing to do with Rafa, we let experience go with young talent invested, if Rafa had this record with our 04-09 squad's then fine but this is a working progress and i think the general consensus in the summer was 3rd place with genuine positive signs for the future would be a good season, something that we are well on course to do.

The difference between Rafa and Robbie is our good/bad games under Rafa seem to be spread out where with Robbie it was a run of great form followed by a run of horrible form.

Taking the emotion and the contrasting feeling to both blokes by Chelsea fans,there has been an improvement under Rafa, we are dominating games a lot more than what we did under RDM and if the Spaniard can keep us in 3rd place as far as im concerned he has done what he needed to do.

[robdog 2,084]

I think Rafa has done ok.

Here is a http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2264430/Rafael-Benitez-makes-worst-start-Chelsea-manager-Roman-Abramovich-era.html'>lil' stat from the Daily Fail to support your argument

[Tomo 21,751]

Here is a lil' stat from the Daily Fail to support your argument

AVB and Robbie aside, all those managers had superior squad's. Jose and Claudio had shitloads to spend on whoever they wanted, Avram, Phil, Hiddink and Carlo inherited the squad in the peak cycle. Rafa had neither of those luxury's.

Jose, as far as i am aware, had the worst end out of all the managers.

Brendan Rodgers oversaw Liverpool's worst league start for over 100 years, does that make him the worst Pool manager in that period?

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

AVB and Robbie aside, all those managers had superior squad's. Jose and Claudio had shitloads to spend on whoever they wanted, Avram, Phil, Hiddink and Carlo inherited the squad in the peak cycle. Rafa had neither of those luxury's.

Jose, as far as i am aware, had the worst end out of all the managers.

Brendan Rodgers oversaw Liverpool's worst league start for over 100 years, does that make him the worst Pool manager in that period?

Can You rate our managers from the past 10 years?

[Tomo 21,751]

Can You rate our managers from the past 10 years?

In terms of what they contributed

1. Mourinho

2. Ancelotti

3. Di Matteo

4. Hiddink

5. Clarke

6. Ranieri

7. AVB

8. Scolari

Ill judge Rafa on the scale when he leaves.

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

In terms of what they contributed

1. Mourinho

2. Ancelotti

3. Di Matteo

4. Hiddink

5. Clarke

6. Ranieri

7. AVB

8. Scolari

Ill judge Rafa on the scale when he leaves.

[zolayes 14,489]

In terms of what they contributed

1. Mourinho

2. Ancelotti

3. Di Matteo

4. Hiddink

5. Clarke

6. Ranieri

7. AVB

8. Scolari

Ill judge Rafa on the scale when he leaves.

you undervalue Ranieri's contribution considerably

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

you undervalue Ranieri's Grant's contribution considerably

[Rmpr 8,977]

In terms of what they contributed

1. Mourinho

2. Ancelotti

3. Di Matteo

4. Hiddink

5. Clarke

6. Ranieri

7. AVB

8. Scolari

Ill judge Rafa on the scale when he leaves.

1. Mourinho

2. Ancelotti

3. Di Matteo

4. Ranieri

5. Hiddink

6. Clarke

7. AVB

8. Scolari

Fixed