The Benitez Thread

[Sheva. 5,373]

may be not... but u do expect the players to turn up with way more fire than we did in his first 2 games which are actually the toughest opposition he has faced so far.

also tell me precisely what we are arguing about because as far as i can remember i quoted u on " we are surely and slowly getting our confidence back" which seemed to me to take our last 2 performances (infact as i said before, our last 135 minutes) in a too big way, when just 2 matches ago (against corianthians) we were horrible. so my point was not to jump the gun.

I'm not jumping the gun, i realize the level of opponent's we have been playing. But the players have been looking more confident over the past 2 games, when really they could have been excused for under-performing due to jet lag and what not.

I just hope we can build on the past 2 results as we go into this tough festive period.

[didierforever 7,349]

I'm not jumping the gun, i realize the level of opponent's we have been playing. But the players have been looking more confident over the past 2 games, when really they could have been excused for under-performing due to jet lag and what not.

I just hope we can build on the past 2 results as we go into this tough festive period.

precisely that was my point... the last 2 games and not "surely and slowly"... anyways i get the feeling that we are saying the same things but u r saying it being pro-rafa while i am saying it being anti.

[Rmpr 8,977]

I can't disagree with this.

FINALLY!

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Talk about taking things totally in the wrong way. RDM was great the start of the season, we fucked up in November and he was sacked for this, whether anyone agrees with it or not.

I've forgotten the amount of league points we had in November, but i'm sure the 8 in 15 we have now is not that bad in comparison.

In our last 5 games with RDM, we had 5 points BUT, the schedule was very difficult. Away at Spurs, home to ManU (where we got screwed), at WBA and Swansea and the easiest game of the bunch which is really not that easy, at home to Liverpool. That's the #1, 6,7,8, and 11 teams in the table and 3 of them away. Compare that to what Rafa's faced? City at home, Fulham and Villa at home. Sunderland and West Ham away. The #2, 12, 13, 15, and 16. teams and 3 of them at home The second most difficult game Rafa has managed has been easier than the easiest RDM had to get through in that period. But as I said in another thread, people love narrative and this narrative of "Rafa turns Chelsea around" was 100% predictable when you saw the schedule we had.

[bluesman2610 1,341]

Talk about taking things totally in the wrong way. RDM was great the start of the season, we fucked up in November and he was sacked for this, whether anyone agrees with it or not.

I've forgotten the amount of league points we had in November, but i'm sure the 8 in 15 we have now is not that bad in comparison.

to your point in the month of november we gained 4 points

[bluesman2610 1,341]

In our last 5 games with RDM, we had 5 points BUT, the schedule was very difficult. Away at Spurs, home to ManU (where we got screwed), at WBA and Swansea and the easiest game of the bunch which is really not that easy, at home to Liverpool. That's the #1, 6,7,8, and 11 teams in the table and 3 of them away. Compare that to what Rafa's faced? City at home, Fulham and Villa at home. Sunderland and West Ham away. The #2, 12, 13, 15, and 16. teams and 3 of them at home The second most difficult game Rafa has managed has been easier than the easiest RDM had to get through in that period. But as I said in another thread, people love narrative and this narrative of "Rafa turns Chelsea around" was 100% predictable when you saw the schedule we had.

he would have had to win the games before that narritive could be made fact.. for all his faults in the past against us he has the team defending better granted we haven't played the strongest competition since his appointment but the ground work is there..from where we were when we unfortunately got rid of RDM he could only go up no?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

he would have had to win the games before that narritive could be made fact.. for all his faults in the past against us he has the team defending better granted we haven't played the strongest competition since his appointment but the ground work is there..from where we were when we unfortunately got rid of RDM he could only go up no?

But the winning was inevitable. We weren't doing all that badly under RDM. We were in the same spot in the league despite a harder run of schedule. We had a very bad run of 8 games in all competitions, only winning once and drawing twice, but the competition there was ridiculous. Shakhtar and Juventus away, ManU twice, Liverpool and two away games to Swansea and WBA. It was the hardest part of our schedule all season (including the game we played Spurs before and City the game after). The last three games we played against weak sides under RDM we won 4-1, 4-0, and 6-0. There is no reason to believe that we wouldn't have kept beating the Villas, Sunderlands and Montereys of this world under RDM.

And the team defending better thing drives me crazy. We are defending better but that's because Roman was insisting on attacking football from RDM. That's what his demand and RDM's failure to deliver that was ostensibly why he fired him. RDM started out the season with fantastic defensive football (4 clean sheets in our first 5 league games) and then Roman wanted Oscar to start and demanded Chelsea play more attacking. Then Benitez comes in, defends more and takes Oscar out to give us better balance and people give him credit for doing exactly what Roman ordered RDM not to. It's like ordering a chef who you know can bake good apple pie, to make cherry pie and then firing him when he doesn't only to hire someone to make apple pie.

[bluesman2610 1,341]

But the winning was inevitable. We weren't doing all that badly under RDM. We were in the same spot in the league despite a harder run of schedule. We had a very bad run of 8 games in all competitions, only winning once and drawing twice, but the competition there was ridiculous. Shakhtar and Juventus away, ManU twice, Liverpool and two away games to Swansea and WBA. It was the hardest part of our schedule all season (including the game we played Spurs before and City the game after). The last three games we played against weak sides under RDM we won 4-1, 4-0, and 6-0. There is no reason to believe that we wouldn't have kept beating the Villas, Sunderlands and Montereys of this world under RDM.

And the team defending better thing drives me crazy. We are defending better but that's because Roman was insisting on attacking football from RDM. That's what his demand and RDM's failure to deliver that was ostensibly why he fired him. RDM started out the season with fantastic defensive football (4 clean sheets in our first 5 league games) and then Roman wanted Oscar to start and demanded Chelsea play more attacking. Then Benitez comes in, defends more and takes Oscar out to give us better balance and people give him credit for doing exactly what Roman ordered RDM not to. It's like ordering a chef who you know can bake good apple pie, to make cherry pie and then firing him when he doesn't only to hire someone to make apple pie.

I see your point about the fixtures the wins would come but he still had a job to do... and the tactics of rdm to an attacking style of football changed at Arsenal away.. that was the first game he started and played the trio.. but what i mean is not the clean sheets its the pressuring players filling in when a player vacates a spot to press thats what we didn't have more often when we did get caught out it was because no one filled the gap that was left when a player changed position in our attempt at free form football..

take for example super cup 2 of the goals conceeded were because when luiz pushed up the pitch mikel nor lamps dropped into CB to until luiz was back and athleti played the ball into the holes and we all know what happened after that.. maybe as a defender myself im reading to much into the differences but they are there

[Rupert 130]

Let me begin by saying, firstly, Mourinho took a Porto team to Champions League glory, then came to Chelsea and got us to be the best team in the league for 2 years and if it weren't for the Luis Garcia ghost goal or the 2007 shootout loss, we would have been within touching distance of a CL back then.

he went to Inter, got the players performing. Eto'o for Ibra + 56mil. what a masterstroke. Sneijder - world beater then. Got Cambiasso, Lucio etc dig deep and pull off Another Champions League win

Just because he's stuck with a Madrid team full of players who are not playing for the team, doesn't mean that he suddenly turned into a bad manager.

Compare him to Rafa and you've got a total mismatch. Plus, Rafa - never accepted by fans. Plus, Jose would get total control of transfers.Plus Rafa would just be a puppet strung by Gourlay and Emenalo. Plus, Mourinho will have the burning desire to win the CL at Chelsea. that'll keep him going.

You don't know the facts. Mourinho didn't go to Inter and got the boys playing, he went to Inter after Mancini had buiit a fine team and he demanded another 97 million pounds to buy players who were at or just beyond their peak. He then played them to death (65 games, some of them) in order to win the League knowing that he had already done a deal to go to Real Madrid. He left the Inter team knackered -15 first team players with long term fatigue related injuries and financially broke - (Rafa was allowed one purchase of 7 million). Not satisfied with that Mourinho then kept meeting the players from Inter, even when he was with Real Madrid encouraging them not to work with Rafa. He does this or something like it at every club. As for Porto - do you remember him flinging his CL medal into the crowd and walking off the pitch instead of celebrating? He had finished with them. Some delusional Chelsea supporters think - well good on him to treat clubs and teams like that because he really loves Chelsea. He is a whore - he doesn't love anybody except himself and money. He was whoring himself to Manchester United when he was at Chelsea. And although it might hurt your pride he did apply for the LFC job but was rejected. LFC selected Rafa instead because they felt he was the type of manager who would build a club and not use it. He is despised in Madrid and Spain and he will get the sack just as soon as they figure out the cheapest way of doing it (probably in June). Abramovich won't touch him and neither will Manchester United.

[Sheva. 5,373]

And the team defending better thing drives me crazy. We are defending better but that's because Roman was insisting on attacking football from RDM. That's what his demand and RDM's failure to deliver that was ostensibly why he fired him. RDM started out the season with fantastic defensive football (4 clean sheets in our first 5 league games) and then Roman wanted Oscar to start and demanded Chelsea play more attacking. Then Benitez comes in, defends more and takes Oscar out to give us better balance and people give him credit for doing exactly what Roman ordered RDM not to. It's like ordering a chef who you know can bake good apple pie, to make cherry pie and then firing him when he doesn't only to hire someone to make apple pie.

You don't know this though. What drives me crazy is people saying "Roman wants this" or "Roman wants that" when it's all just assumptions.

It's funny though that the same Roman who wants attacking football hires a manager believed to be conservative and defensive.

And i also wonder why he didn't 'demand' Rafa to start Oscar.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

You don't know this though. What drives me crazy is people saying "Roman wants this" or "Roman wants that" when it's all just assumptions.

It's funny though that the same Roman who wants attacking football hires a manager believed to be conservative and defensive.

And i also wonder why he didn't 'demand' Rafa to start Oscar.

It's not all assumptions. It's very widely known what Roman wants in a broad sense. There are enough leaks out of Chelsea that have all said the same thing. (In fact, one person in the know at Chelsea was clarifying it earlier this year in an article I read. He said something like "people say Roman wants to play a certain style of attacking football, but he really just wants someone to develop their own attacking style and to take it to the other clubs" (rough paraphrasing.) As for Oscar, I don't know. I really don't want him to be micromanaging at all. As is the key with all management. You hire the person you think is best for the job and you let them do the job. Roman's "visits" to training are not helpful IMO.

[bluesman2610 1,341]

It's not all assumptions. It's very widely known what Roman wants in a broad sense. There are enough leaks out of Chelsea that have all said the same thing. (In fact, one person in the know at Chelsea was clarifying it earlier this year in an article I read. He said something like "people say Roman wants to play a certain style of attacking football, but he really just wants someone to develop their own attacking style and to take it to the other clubs" (rough paraphrasing.) As for Oscar, I don't know. I really don't want him to be micromanaging at all. As is the key with all management. You hire the person you think is best for the job and you let them do the job. Roman's "visits" to training are not helpful IMO.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I see your point about the fixtures the wins would come but he still had a job to do... and the tactics of rdm to an attacking style of football changed at Arsenal away.. that was the first game he started and played the trio.. but what i mean is not the clean sheets its the pressuring players filling in when a player vacates a spot to press thats what we didn't have more often when we did get caught out it was because no one filled the gap that was left when a player changed position in our attempt at free form football..

take for example super cup 2 of the goals conceeded were because when luiz pushed up the pitch mikel nor lamps dropped into CB to until luiz was back and athleti played the ball into the holes and we all know what happened after that.. maybe as a defender myself im reading to much into the differences but they are there

I don't actually mind what Rafa has done to the side. I have a feeling that his starting XI would be similar to the one I'd prefer (and I was certainly never liking either starting Hazard , Mata, and Oscar up front together nor the atrocious and childish nickname given to them as a result and thankfully that's been mostly stopped by Rafa.) I just don't think we can give credit to Rafa for winning the exact sort of games RDM was winning. (and part of me thinks that RDM was sacked because there was window of opportunity. Chelsea had a game no one would blame them for losing coming up followed by an exceptionally easy schedule. Chelsea could still have qualified for the CL as well. If they did and if Chelsea rebounded which was almost a certainty given the competition, then Roman wouldn't have been able to fire RDM. He saw his window and he took it.)

[Rmpr 8,977]

It's not all assumptions. It's very widely known what Roman wants in a broad sense. There are enough leaks out of Chelsea that have all said the same thing. (In fact, one person in the know at Chelsea was clarifying it earlier this year in an article I read. He said something like "people say Roman wants to play a certain style of attacking football, but he really just wants someone to develop their own attacking style and to take it to the other clubs" (rough paraphrasing.) As for Oscar, I don't know. I really don't want him to be micromanaging at all. As is the key with all management. You hire the person you think is best for the job and you let them do the job. Roman's "visits" to training are not helpful IMO.

Yeah, I have said this many times...

I do think he let the manager do his job, I highly doubt he demands for anyone to get a starting position.

Also, we really dont know what he does in his visits, so we cant judge. Maybe he just comes to give some talks and see how things are going and making sure everyone is doing their job, it could be viewed as a routine CEO visit to one of its offices.

Anyways, this has nothing to do with Benitez.

[Fulham Broadway 16,831]

Have to say he was spot on with the team and substitutions Sunday. Luiz in the middle, Moses starting, Piazon etc.

However the room Villa gave, coupled with the fact they are the worst team to descend on SW6 in a while, leaves Rafa still being a cunt

[Sheva. 5,373]

It's not all assumptions. It's very widely known what Roman wants in a broad sense. There are enough leaks out of Chelsea that have all said the same thing. (In fact, one person in the know at Chelsea was clarifying it earlier this year in an article I read. He said something like "people say Roman wants to play a certain style of attacking football, but he really just wants someone to develop their own attacking style and to take it to the other clubs" (rough paraphrasing.) As for Oscar, I don't know. I really don't want him to be micromanaging at all. As is the key with all management. You hire the person you think is best for the job and you let them do the job. Roman's "visits" to training are not helpful IMO.

It's not all assumptions, but what you said about Oscar is. I don't believe RDM was forced into starting anyone, he made the decision himself and couldn't see or stop the problems that came along with that.

[bluesman2610 1,341]

I don't actually mind what Rafa has done to the side. I have a feeling that his starting XI would be similar to the one I'd prefer (and I was certainly never liking either starting Hazard , Mata, and Oscar up front together nor the atrocious and childish nickname given to them as a result and thankfully that's been mostly stopped by Rafa.) I just don't think we can give credit to Rafa for winning the exact sort of games RDM was winning. (and part of me thinks that RDM was sacked because there was window of opportunity. Chelsea had a game no one would blame them for losing coming up followed by an exceptionally easy schedule. Chelsea could still have qualified for the CL as well. If they did and if Chelsea rebounded which was almost a certainty given the competition, then Roman wouldn't have been able to fire RDM. He saw his window and he took it.)

ok so we are not so different in our views i admitted to that the schedule that RB had did lean in his favour and i also agree rdm could have won these games as well if using similair tactics but that would be assuming he would or wouldn't,

all the extreme hate for rafa and the extreme love is way over board i think as supporters of our beloved club we need to take it a game at a time and when the season is over we then can give a proper assesment of his abilities as the manager of Chelsea Football Club!

[Kojo 4,676]

One huge benefit about Rafa Benitez, he seems to be obsessed in buying defensive midfielders, well at Liverpool anyway, maybe that means he's going to invest in strenght down the middle, which is exactly what we need.