Victor Moses

[ZanSnake 1,211]

Has potential, but nothing more then a glorified squad player, wouldn't mind him here though.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I don't think we should buy him because we won't be doing him much good if we do unless we loan him straight back. For his own good he should stay at Wigan for a couple of seasons.

[SeB 1,281]

What I like about this guy is that he isn't diver. He has good dribbling ability, which often makes oposition defenders tackle him. He could dive and make bad reputation among the refs as Drogba did at his beggining of his career in England.

But there are also few things which question me about this possible transfer. First of all is his passing ability. He has only 1 assist in 38 PL appearances. That's quite mediocore for winger, which main duty should be delivering crucial passes. He makes average 24 passes per game with 81,2% success. This means he produces 19 succesful passes per game. To make this more clear to you - Anton Ferdinand from QPR has 16 succesful passes per game and Florent Malouda has 22 succesful passes per game. So, in terms of passing this guy is slightly better than Ferdinand and is worse than Malouda. That's really big minus for the winger.

I also question his ability to help in the defence. He has total of 6 clearances in whole season, 28 interceptions (0,7 per game) and makes only one tackle per game. With the likes of Hazard, Mata and Torres in attack whose defensive contribution is also poor, we need a winger who can help at the back.

He also isn't aerial threat and gives a ball away too easily.

As I said before, I would like us to buy only Hulk for a winger position or keep our Ramires.

Haha, another WhoScored addict

I don't know if you saw my message (top of the 3rd page) but I noticed that the main thing Moses lacks is the end of his actions. He's quite incredible athletically but lacks logically lucidity at the end of his runs. That's why he's poor in terms of finishing and last choices. You can also rely that to the fact Wigan strikers are just awful, last season (2010/2011) Di Santo and Boselli scored on overall 2 goals (one in Mickey Mouse Cup), Connor Sammon isn't Premier League level (off topic but I've not lost faith about him performing in PL one day) because he's weak in every domains (worst rated player by WhoScored, even if he presses a lot).

This season it's not very different, I read a very interesting piece on the clear cut chances last week:

http://www.eplindex.com/13384/clear-cut-chances-hits-misses-opta-stats-analysis.html

As you probably saw, Di Santo goals are for most, very spectacular. The article shows Wigan created the 2nd bottom less of clear cut chances (a goalscoring chance which is considered dependent only of the finishing ability of the striker because he's completely free in the 6 yard box by example). And they're the worst in terms of finishing those chances. We see it when we look at the goalscorers, Jordi Gomes, Franco Di Santo's wonder goals, some set pieces etc...

On passing: I don't take that much importance on it, especially for a player like Moses who is the complete opposite of a possession player (I don't know if you use "rupture" in english, that's the term we use in french to mean that...). One doesn't expect from him to keep possession and pass backward if space seem closed in front of him. At the contrary, his dribbling and his runs with dribbling sequences is what makes his stock in trade.

You shall have seen that Jermaine Pennant (18 per game), Etherington (18.7), Matthew Jarvis (22.6) have also not a huge amount of average passes per game. Though if you go to the European stats rubric, you see this alleged weak passing game does not prevent them to be 2nd, 15th and 17th best crossers in Europe.

You can see Ben Arfa (though I'm surprised he can think almost 20 times per game to pass the ball to a team mate), Gervinho (stupid player though), McClean or Balotelli.

Jarvis is even Premier League best crosser, he's the most accurate crosses (73) with a very good ratio of 27%.

You really can't compare such different roles like that, it depends of the role given to those players and of course their role on the pitch

I don't agree with Torres being poor defensively, at the contrary I think he deserves credit for the intensity of his pressing, even this season when he was often lonely to press the whole defense (hello Mata and Sturridge !). Hazard's not weak defensively, he played at Lille in the system Villas Boas wanted to implement at Chelsea: 4-3-3 with high team and possession football, requiring high pressing from the forward line, including Hazard. Mata cannot be regarded as "lazy", it's a bit controversial decision he took to keep his lucidity to attack and not to defend (when you look at his brilliant off-ball movement you just cannot imagine he sorts his efforts) because he isn't able yet to press high, as well as he isn't really able to weigh literally on the play, he's decisive but sometimes he seems invisible for periods of the game.

But I understand your concern, I must admit I share it too. Finding a balance with such a system including the likes of Mata, Hulk, Marin etc... is very risky considering every one has his stone to provide to the building (awful translation, sorry) and has to press. I think I already said that elsewhere but the brilliant formations we make at the moment may not be the one with whom we'll end the season (with the caretaker boss... hahaha *sarcastic laugh*).

I'm kidding but there's a cause of concern there, if we can avoid a ridiculous remake of Argentina vs Germany at the 2010 WC or Bayern-City of this season with a lonely DM behind 5 offensive players, it really would please me

[Melanicus 5,208]

Brilliant analysis SeB as always. Thanks for sharing your opinion, I learnt a lot again.

I believe and I always will that balance is one of the most important elements in choosing starting eleven. I quite agree with you about Torres. I was a bit harsh with him by saying he's not helping in the defence and doesn't do his defensive duties. With him being poacher (well he used to be ) you can't expect him staying in his own half. About Mata, he is classic trequartista. He does far less defensively and simply drifts around looking for space when the team is not in possesion. To be honest I really don't know much about Hazard, but I got the feeling (just the feeling) that he doesn't help in defence a lot. By what I read on the web and heard from my mate who watches Ligue 1 he is pretty much advanced playmaker and this is why I question his abilites. But firstly I really need to see our formation for next season, to see where all of these players I mentioned will play.

In my opinion, buying right winger is not as necessary as getting new creative midfielder. We could easily play the "Christmas tree" formation with both Mata and Hazard having roles of attacking midfielder. They should constantly change their sides to completly confuse opostion. Understanding between those two will be crucial in our success in attack next season and ammount of scored goals. Let's just hope they click good with each other.

But if Roberto (which I'm pretty sure) will play his prefered 4-2-3-1. I want to see the same rotating between Hazard and Mata on the left side of the pitch, but it's a little bit different on the right. I want to see player who will also help in defence. This player should have great stamina (yeah, I also think of Ramires) and be good technically and have solid pace. The only thing I'm worried about with Ramires is his crossing ability. He didn't enthuse me with it this season.

So basically I will now rank wingers we are looking at by my standarts.

1. Hulk

2. Ramires (more like wide midfielder not real winger)

3. Moses

4. Ben Arfa

[SeB 1,281]

Mata's movements are brilliant. But like Torres after he scored again, he wasn't that influent on the play. This season Mata is a bit the anti-Torres, Mata was hugely decisive but not that influent on the play whereas Torres spent 24 hours without scoring but with brilliant performances in the play.

I think that Mata will gain some volume and some stamina after a first year in Premier League and that's what makes me wonder if he isn't going to be another player next season. Less decisive but more present in the play. And I also think Mata will evolve that way considering that Hazard is also hugely decisive

I think Mata should best be used like Young against Swizerland at Wembley one year ago: central attacking midfielder in front of a double pivot who feeds and launches him from the midway line ; Mata would then launch counter attacks by asking the ball pretty deep before orientating on the wings or searching Torres through space. I also think Di Matteo will use that system, with Mata to launch the counter attacks, Hazard on the left and probably Ramires on the right.

I agree with you about Ramires, in fact he's an inconstant crosser, able to give terrific deliveries like pure shite at times... But he can balance the team because his zone of play is rather central/right than the wing so he may be crucial there.

I'm convinced that Ramires will be the key next season and that we'll be forced to come back to a system where he can play centrally.

The 4-3-2-1 is a very difficult system to play: on a complete season it's impossible to play it due to the incredible amount of pressing expected from the two attacking midfielders which is crucial in that system. And except Carrick, no player is able to play like Pirlo in front of the defense (due to the need to have a DM to purely regain the ball).

It's a good system to use on one game against teams who use to start their play with their full backs, Swansea is one example with Vorm's always short distribution through Ashley Williams or the right back Angel Rangel. The difference between the 4-3-2-1 is the positionning of the two attacking midfielders and then the pressing orientation.

In 4-3-3 the wingers are expected to press from the touchline through the middle of the field in order to left for the full back the only option of a pass toward a midfielder back to the adverse goal, so then it's easier to regain the ball.

In 4-3-2-1 the pressing is in the opposite sense, the attacking midfielders are expected to press from the center toward the touchline to left the full backs (who can come higher than against a 4-3-3) as only distribution solutions. Then the flank midfielder can press the full back whereas the attacking midfielder comes closing the pass angle toward the axis of the field. Then, the full back can only pass backward to his goalkeeper (under pressure from the striker) or clear (or loose) the ball.

The other consequences of that system is that your full backs are forced to defend and has no offensive impact. The midfield would implode with adverse players leaving their position and playing between the lines as well.

So then the two "attacking midfielders" of a 4-3-2-1 aren't two ball wankers, you are virtually expected to choose players with the ability to press strongly for a whole game and often they are central midfielders put higher rather than attacking midfielders who only waits their team to have the ball.

Mata and Sturridge were already completely useless and threatened the team in a 4-3-3! (when the adverse first distribution can be done without being attacked, it makes even harder to the team to regain the ball)

That's why 4-3-2-1 at Chelsea couldn't be used except than punctually in a specific context with the proper players suited to the system

[Stats 7,046]

Victor Moses agent has reportedly said that he will try to make Moses move to Chelsea as much as he can. He also is stated as saying that it is nothing do with money reasons. He says that he advised Moses from moving to City few seasons ago to ensure he stayed at Wigan, before anyone says he is just looking for money. Wouldnt mind Moses but he would benefit with another season at Wigan, especially if we get another winger even though the facilities are not that great he will improve there.

Mceachran has been touted as a possible exchange (on loan presumably). Would not be a bad move but if it is a Swansea situation with Josh I would advise against it, although I do see him making a few starts if he goes there but as many others have said I reckon getting a solid season at a Championship club would be beneficial either way. He has age on side

[MIDOKA 28]

Di Matteo to capture £10m man Victor Moses in next 24 hours

http://www.mirror.co...ransfer-1134243

[MIDOKA 28]

Chelsea ready to ramp up bid for Wigan's £10m-rated forward Moses

Read more:

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1znx5OBPn

...

I think we will end this market with Maicon and Moses

[Kojo 4,676]

Moses for 12 million?, i feel sick. He's a huge gamble, much bigger than Hulk even if you pay 38 million for him, that's in all honesty.

And i've been wanting Moses for 2 seasons now. Even check my old threads.

[Henrique 9,133]

Too much talk. We lost Didier, Kalou and Anelka. 3 strikers. This guys is coming as a squad player, right now we only have Torres and Sturridge. Its only 10m (7m + bonus). Better than pay 18m for some kid with no experience in PL, and that will need 2 or 3 seasons on load to become a player good enough for Chelsea.

[Rahul Haque 57]

why are we after him honestly? he is not good enough. he seems distinctly average. he seems more like aston villa quality.

[Stats 7,046]

Increasing reports are that we are closing in on a £10m move for him. While I feel he is not needed, I will welcome him with open arms and hope he becomes an even better player if he joins here

[Ollie 4,400]

This is the kind of deal that excites me. Very quick, talented and young player who will hopefully develop into a very good player. Everyone's a gamble, he has prem experience so let him prove his worth. I like that we're going for young players that can be together even in 6-7 years. My only fear is that he, Marin, Lukaku and De Bruyne will end up leaving because of lack of playing time. It's ok signing them, but play them Robbie.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

IF true, it is Horrible. An Utterly horrible signing. Showing the same level of ambition as Liverfools.

[We Hate Scouse 10,286]

IF true, it is Horrible. An Utterly horrible signing. Showing the same level of ambition as Liverfools.

Not every player we sign is going to be an incredible world class player. He is clearly not going to be a first team player and will be used as back up. We're playing in 7 competitions this year we need young decent players that aren't going to set us back too much.

[Ollie 4,400]

He's 21 years old. This is nothing like their epic signing of Stewart Downing.

He missed a penalty against Chelsea on 8 May just before half time. He also became the first player in seven years to miss three consecutive penalty kicks in the Premier League. Downing managed no league goals and no assists over the entire league season, even after taking one penalty and 72 shots. Despite this, Roy Hodgson called Downing up to the England team for Euro 2012, which was held in Poland and Ukraine.

Give the guy a chance and see how he does if we sign him. Whoever decided to want him obviously saw something in him and we're not the only ones interested.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

Hulk would be the ideal option but Moses is a far more cheaper alternative.He had a good season with Wigan and if RDM plays him regularly then I am sure he can be a great asset to the club.If the club thinks that Moses is one for the future and would be given very few chances to shine then 10m is not the amount we should spend for such a criteria.Give Kakuta that role if really required.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

Not every player we sign is going to be an incredible world class player. He is clearly not going to be a first team player and will be used as back up. We're playing in 7 competitions this year we need young decent players that aren't going to set us back too much.

Why go out and buy squad players? We need a very good RW.