🇧🇷 Oscar

[didierforever 7,349]

Ball control definitely mata.

Controlling the match is definitely not mata... Both cesc and oscar are better by a wide margin.

Creating chances is cesc, mata than oscar.

With Mata, both matic and cesc would of been exposed more as would of the whole backline. LVG plays mata on the wings, because like Jose, he views mata as a weak player. This season, United plays ultraconservative football, which is why guys like Smalling is getting recognition as the best cb in the league... If you think we play like shit, you haven't seen United games...

if we had mata, cesc would not have been brought. we would have had a real, proper CM. someone like rakitic/schneiderlein.

LVG plays mata on the wing cos they have rooney. and mata has been quite successful there.

creating chances is cesc? really? when was the last time he created anything? i am sorry, but this myth about cesc is too much for me to handle.

lets not even talk about oscar when talking about controlling the match. the only time cesc can control the game is when he is given ample time and space on the ball. first signs of pressing and cesc is as good at controlling the game as zouma would be.

[Spike 12,049]

Dictating the temp of a match isn't something I'd ever attribute to Juan Mata.

[Oscar 441]

if we had mata, cesc would not have been brought. we would have had a real, proper CM. someone like rakitic/schneiderlein.

LVG plays mata on the wing cos they have rooney. and mata has been quite successful there.

creating chances is cesc? really? when was the last time he created anything? i am sorry, but this myth about cesc is too much for me to handle.

lets not even talk about oscar when talking about controlling the match. the only time cesc can control the game is when he is given ample time and space on the ball. first signs of pressing and cesc is as good at controlling the game as zouma would be.

Rakitic went to barcelona even when xavi was there and was willing to play a different role. Highly doubt, he would of came here....

Morgan been dropped a few times by LVG already this season... Top of my head, he was dropped for both arsenal and liverpool...

Mata has not been consistent at all. He's been better than rooney and depay though, but marital has been the best out of the 4.

Your personal hate doesn't change the fact that cesc creates chances. Due to his position, cesc can definitely create more than mata unless mata. Set peices, longball, through balls, flicks, etc.

Mata never control matches, both Cesc and OScar did.

[Oscar 441]

Dictating the temp of a match isn't something I'd ever attribute to Juan Mata.

Yea, it's very weird when someone says he actually dictates tempo, which is the complete opposite of Juan Mata.

[didierforever 7,349]

Rakitic went to barcelona even when xavi was there and was willing to play a different role. Highly doubt, he would of came here....

Morgan been dropped a few times by LVG already this season... Top of my head, he was dropped for both arsenal and liverpool...

Mata has not been consistent at all. He's been better than rooney and depay though, but marital has been the best out of the 4.

Your personal hate doesn't change the fact that cesc creates chances. Due to his position, cesc can definitely create more than mata unless mata. Set peices, longball, through balls, flicks, etc.

Mata never control matches, both Cesc and OScar did.

rakitic went to barca as a cesc replacement if i remember correctly.

cesc was just dropped for the pool game. morgan been dropped for those games means nothing. we have seen how he plays in the last 2 years and he is a much better player than cesc as a CM.

lets not even talk about consistency when comparing any X, y, Z player with either of cesc or oscar. yes, martial has been the best of the 4 but mata has been quite good too and that too as a RW. also, we as chelsea fans are testament to exactly how good mata can be through the center.

my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that for the last 11 months now, cesc has been shit. my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that cesc , a CM, has to be given defensive protection from a CAM. as for creating, again, when? wjere? am i watching the same chelsea matches you are for the last 11 months?

[lucio 5,418]

i've seen mata "dictating" a little more , now he is at utd, coming deep and spraying the ball around the OT pitch. but i haven't watched him much

[Oscar 441]

rakitic went to barca as a cesc replacement if i remember correctly.

cesc was just dropped for the pool game. morgan been dropped for those games means nothing. we have seen how he plays in the last 2 years and he is a much better player than cesc as a CM.

lets not even talk about consistency when comparing any X, y, Z player with either of cesc or oscar. yes, martial has been the best of the 4 but mata has been quite good too and that too as a RW. also, we as chelsea fans are testament to exactly how good mata can be through the center.

my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that for the last 11 months now, cesc has been shit. my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that cesc , a CM, has to be given defensive protection from a CAM. as for creating, again, when? wjere? am i watching the same chelsea matches you are for the last 11 months?

Man United have carrick, herrera, bastian and morgan. All that hype in their cms, yet, they are so ultraconservative as a team. Read on redcafe, how boring united fans think they play. Morgan played well at southampton. So did our own ryan betrand. So, did llalana, lovren and lambert. At United, he has already been dropped in 2 big games and their so called super midfield have been very underwhelming.

Football has changed now in terms of positions. Cesc has been bad since the new year, but he still create chances even though he is getting cut through easily. Cesc was never a fast guy and never a good defensive cm ever. You cannot expect him to be that.

Way I see it if JT went to barcelona, he would of failed hard under their tactics. However, he stay in England in a team that matched his skillset.

[didierforever 7,349]

Man United have carrick, herrera, bastian and morgan. All that hype in their cms, yet, they are so ultraconservative as a team. Read on redcafe, how boring united fans think they play. Morgan played well at southampton. So did our own ryan betrand. So, did llalana, lovren and lambert. At United, he has already been dropped in 2 big games and their so called super midfield have been very underwhelming.

Football has changed now in terms of positions. Cesc has been bad since the new year, but he still create chances even though he is getting cut through easily. Cesc was never a fast guy and never a good defensive cm ever. You cannot expect him to be that.

Way I see it if JT went to barcelona, he would of failed hard under their tactics. However, he stay in England in a team that matched his skillset.

u could have done the same on TC last year, we ended up winning the league.

are we talking about the same bertrand who every chelsea fan is currently pining for?

again, being dropped for 2 games means nothing. also, united have 4 proper attackers. we play oscar mainly for the purpose of being a "defensive" CAM and the last season, it looked like we played willian simply because he had the workrate to "cover" for iva. cesc and hazard are the only 2 players you can easily say that had the most freedom in this team. a situation totally unlike of morgan's.

also, morgan played 90 minutes against spurs, soton, everton, man city. why is that not being discussed.

807 minutes in 11 PL games is hardly a thing to be mocked at.

again, what chances are you talking about?

exactly, football has changed a lot. there is no place in football, specially for a team like chelsea, to have cesc playing as a CM. someone who is not just slow (carrick is slow), but has no defensive sense, wont put in a shift for his team.

fair enough, JT would not have been successful at barca, cos of their tactics. and cesc was never going to be successful at chelsea and that too under jose. go to the cesc thread and just this morning i posted expressing my surprise again about jose actually buying cesc (for the 100th time). but come to think of it, for which team was cesc successful? barca - hell no, arsenal - LOL. hardly a surprise that where ever he goes, the teams have to deal with the massive baggage that comes with him.

[didierforever 7,349]

should we have another pre-season or something for him?

:lol:

[DYC. 7,542]

He was good today. Sloppy (who wasn't?) but good overall.

[Parky 739]

He doesn't seem to have a very good football brain & I don't know how he was considered a potential brazilian #10 wonderkid. Loves to slow down any momentum in the final third or choose the worst option pass and space to run into.

The problem with him is that he doesn't really have a natural position in our team that he excels in. I think he would suit MR in a 4-4-2 formation but even this is still not a perfect for him.

[stroey 2,525]

Gave 100%. Not super talented but good enough to be a squad player, as long he gives his all on the pitch I will support him.

[didierforever 7,349]

Minutes played since start of Oscar's career

Messi - 16921

Oscar - 20664

and Oscar hasnt had a pre-season for 4 straight years.

so how are these stats working out?

how is the pre-season working out?

[Pacquiao 1,834]

how is the pre-season working out?

lets see shall we, he was our best player in our opening match against Swansea, then got injured and was out for over a month, came back against Maccabi and scored then followed it up with a good display against Arsenal, a game where you voted for him as MOTM. last night he was also one of our best players, he has had a stop start season so far and has done well under the circumstances of how bad Chelsea are functioning right now.

[didierforever 7,349]

lets see shall we, he was our best player in our opening match against Swansea, then got injured and was out for over a month, came back against Maccabi and scored then followed it up with a good display against Arsenal, a game where you voted for him as MOTM. last night he was also one of our best players, he has had a stop start season so far and has done well under the circumstances of how bad Chelsea are functioning right now.

he was out MOTM vs arsenal and then lets take a look

newcastle - awful

soton -awful

villa - benched

whu - benched

pool - awful

stoke - awful

kiev -average at best. no creativity, poor passing, no vision, no link up play. if he was one of our best players then ramires was our MOTM ( ).

he has had a season exactly like his other seasons where after one good performance, he goes AWOL in the next 5. and that was the point - his consistency.

also, how well is that pre-season working for him?

[Pacquiao 1,834]

he was out MOTM vs arsenal and then lets take a look

newcastle - awful

soton -awful

villa - benched

whu - benched

pool - awful

stoke - awful

kiev -average at best. no creativity, poor passing, no vision, no link up play. if he was one of our best players then ramires was our MOTM ( ).

he has had a season exactly like his other seasons where after one good performance, he goes AWOL in the next 5. and that was the point - his consistency.

also, how well is that pre-season working for him?

Newcastle he was poor, Southampton was an awful team performance no one played well in that game, against Liverpool he was far from awful! he was played on the left so he could track Clyne, he made more tackles then anyone else on the pitch! as well as 3 clearances and 1 interception, if only the rest of the team defend as well as he did we may have got something out of the game! and against Stoke he was far from awful and would have scored the winner if it wasnt for a great save from Butland.

So are you going to continue embarrassing yourself in here and the Matic thread or nah? :lol:

[didierforever 7,349]

Newcastle he was poor, Southampton was an awful team performance no one played well in that game, against Liverpool he was far from awful! he was played on the left so he could track Clyne, he made more tackles then anyone else on the pitch! as well as 3 clearances and 1 interception, if only the rest of the team defend as well as he did we may have got something out of the game! and against Stoke he was far from awful and would have scored the winner if it wasnt for a great save from Butland.

So are you going to continue embarrassing yourself in here and the Matic thread or nah? :lol:

and yet milner and clyne kept on pissing on us. how surprising. can you tell me how pool scored their goal? was it through their attack on the left and the ball passed to coutinho from their left. watch the neville analysis and he gives 2 more instances of the same. brilliant tracking.

and since he was played half a match as a LW and half a match as a CAM, i would expect there to be assists, through balls, key passes. oh wait, we are talking about oscar, so his "tackles and interceptions" are the most important thing of his game.

oh wow!!! he took a shot, so he had a brilliant match.

these are some of the comments after the stoke game

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170315- "

Did his best disappearing act in that second half.....not good enough.

More useful than Fabregas though."

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170318- " Why did he even bother getting out of bed?"

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170410- "

Was good in the first half, afterwards i don't know i didn't see him on the pitch, maybe he got substituted and i didn't notice."

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170446- "

Do people really think he is fit enough to lace Willian's boots? Like I said before, you take goals and asissts out, Willian is twice the player Oscar is. Only difference now is that Willian is improving on the stats statistics and his true quality is showing. Oscar needs to improve a lot. This is based on a lot of games, not just a few. Starting back from last season, he just is not offering enough and needs to improve."

and i can go on and on.. no lack of comments on here. just go back to 28th october and read for yourself to jog your memory.

but since he took a shot, he was far from "awful". embarassing indeed.

so basically -

newcastle - awful

soton -awful

villa - benched

whu - benched

pool - awful

stoke - awful

kiev -average at best

the pre-season has really worked wonders for him, i can see that...

[Rhino's Skin 972]

What happened to Maureens number 10?

wish you would cut out the Maureen malarkey..not big or clever.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

Oscar has had in the past spells for just a few matches at a time where he is the hardest working and best player in the team.

The amount of 'off camera' work he used to do was amazing and this covering of space and pressing use to open up other areas of the pitch for others to exploit.

For some reason this has become more sporadic recently and whether its down to fitness, bad form or just lack of effort.....who knows!!!!

But if he can regain the levels mentioned above he would once again be one the crowd favourites like before

[Pacquiao 1,834]

and yet milner and clyne kept on pissing on us. how surprising. can you tell me how pool scored their goal? was it through their attack on the left and the ball passed to coutinho from their left. watch the neville analysis and he gives 2 more instances of the same. brilliant tracking.

and since he was played half a match as a LW and half a match as a CAM, i would expect there to be assists, through balls, key passes. oh wait, we are talking about oscar, so his "tackles and interceptions" are the most important thing of his game.

oh wow!!! he took a shot, so he had a brilliant match.

these are some of the comments after the stoke game

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170315- "

Did his best disappearing act in that second half.....not good enough.

More useful than Fabregas though."

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170318- " Why did he even bother getting out of bed?"

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170410- "

Was good in the first half, afterwards i don't know i didn't see him on the pitch, maybe he got substituted and i didn't notice."

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14112-8-oscar/?p=1170446- "

Do people really think he is fit enough to lace Willian's boots? Like I said before, you take goals and asissts out, Willian is twice the player Oscar is. Only difference now is that Willian is improving on the stats statistics and his true quality is showing. Oscar needs to improve a lot. This is based on a lot of games, not just a few. Starting back from last season, he just is not offering enough and needs to improve."

and i can go on and on.. no lack of comments on here. just go back to 28th october and read for yourself to jog your memory.

but since he took a shot, he was far from "awful". embarassing indeed.

so basically -

newcastle - awful

soton -awful

villa - benched

whu - benched

pool - awful

stoke - awful

kiev -average at best

the pre-season has really worked wonders for him, i can see that...

Oscar wasnt playing on the left when Liverpool scored their 2nd and 3rd goals, So that is a joke of an excuse to blame Oscar! and Milner was pissing on us??? what game did you watch? Milner was awful! he was dispossessed 5 times in the match more then anyone else, Oscar had him in his back pocket.

so lets see.

Swansea - MOTM

Maccabi - Good

Arsenal - MOTM

Newcastle - Poor

Southampton - Bad team performance

Stoke - Decent

Liverpool - Good

Kiev - Good

so i would say it hasnt been too bad for him at all so far.