🇧🇷 Oscar

[lionsden 4,689]

It's a cycle.

Lionsden posted. didier/stroey likes

Didier posts. Lionsden/stroey likes

Stroey posts. didier/lionsden likes

The only cycle i see here is the "Oscar boom burst cycle" i.e he starts the season well, creating a false dawn and leads to people claiming he's finally achieving his potential and overhyping him to no ends only for his form to drop significantly as the season wears on which is then accompanied by series of excuse from his devoted fans as to why he tailed off at the second half of the season.

[yuvala 2,167]

For someone that's 22 and could be deliver for a period of 10 years?

I have to strongly disagree. The market has been inflated for several years now, so that has to be taken into consideration as well.

Yes, in today's market - I agree.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

People talk here about other teams's talents that they have potentials and are still young etc, but when it comes to Oscar; all its hears is he had 2 years to prove, he didnt do much.

Oscar is 23 years old, has quite big potential, so why not just give him time? How many 23 years old play regular football in teams that won their domestic leagues last year?

Barca: Neymar

Juve: Pogba, Morata

Bayern: Alaba, Gotze

---

Chelsea: Courtois, Oscar

Oscar found himself in quite nice company. Im sure if he was playing for another team, appreciation for him would be similar to players above. But since he is here, no one gives two flying f*ucks about him.

Unless offer for 40m comes in, I wouldnt sell him for any price below. Market is overpriced already, no need to sell for less. And we should learn that from KDB.

[didierforever 7,349]

The only cycle i see here is the "Oscar boom burst cycle" i.e he starts the season well, creating a false dawn and leads to people claiming he's finally achieving his potential and overhyping him to no ends only for his form to drop significantly as the season wears on which is then accompanied by series of excuse from his devoted fans as to why he tailed off at the second half of the season.

where have i seen this before? thats right. arsenal.

false dawn, excuses. lather, rinse, repeat.

[TheIceMan 596]

where have i seen this before? thats right. arsenal.

false dawn, excuses. lather, rinse, repeat.

Are you comparing Oscar to Arsenal?

[didierforever 7,349]

Are you comparing Oscar to Arsenal?

why not? the similarities are there for all to see. some players/teams never live upto their "potential", arsenal and oscar seem to be in that category

[JaKstone 307]

why not? the similarities are there for all to see. some players/teams never live upto their "potential", arsenal and oscar seem to be in that category

Could you please avoid this thread from now on? You're really annoying, some days ago you wished him luck and hoping he plays to his potential and now again ranting.

[JaKstone 307]

It's a cycle.

Lionsden posted. didier/stroey likes

Didier posts. Lionsden/stroey likes

Stroey posts. didier/lionsden likes

10x

[Barbara 15,149]

Things certain in life: death, taxes, Oscar's thread being filled with hatred and hatred to the hatred. Except when we go off topic, that had been the case of at least the last 100 pages here with little change.

We all got it already at this point, so some he's good for nothing, some are skeptical, others think his main problem is physical, others mental, others ability, others consistency.

There isn't one single aspect of him that hasn't been put under the microscope here, both by groups that support him, that don't like him and that are giving him one last chance to prove his worth.

I know this is a forum and we come here to discuss stuff, but those posts had been done a thousand times (if not more) on this thread. We don't need to keep repeating it endlessly. We've heard you.

[Mechromancer 262]

In my opinion: is pretty much everything. If i need to describe his problem, well, he's is just average. Or average plus x2. Can't be more simple, actually.

[Peace. 4,352]

If one naively reads throughout this debate, he would end up believing that the pre-season is the bread and butter of the professional footballer — if anyone were unfortunate enough to miss one, he would suffer from inconsistency and tiredness for the forthcoming seasons. In the same way, one would come to believe that Oscar is a modern slave footballer and that he plays twice as many as other players.

One counter example : Neymar. Oscar played the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Okay. Neymar played the Copa America in 2011, the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Let's compare the minutes played by both players since 2012 — i.e. Oscar's last season in Brazil —, the result is (excluding friendly games with their club and their national team) :

Oscar : 13 123

Neymar : 14 582

Neymar has roughly played 1 400 more minutes than Oscar, which equates to 15,5 games (roughly four games per seasons). Moreover, Neymar has played 3 248 minutes in friendlies with Brazil while Oscar 2 153 — in other words, 1 100 more minutes, i.e. 12 games on four years / three games a season.

Basically, Neymar has played some seven full games in more than Oscar, and this in the last four seasons/years. Furthermore, he did all that while being the Star of Brazil and Santos and basically carrying Brazil during the World-Cup (and to some extent Santos in the Libertadores). On top of that, if my informations are correct, then he has only played one friendly game when he joined them two years ago. Yet, it did not stop him to be the joint top-scorer of the Champions League with Messi and Ronaldo — and if I am not mistaken, also the first player in history to score in the quarters, the semis and the final of the same competition.

Regarding Messi and Cristiano, they amounts to a little more than 15 000 minutes each, in the last four season — and that is solely including their appearances in La Liga and in the UCL... Another reference : Fabregas — he played in the last four seasons 14 032 minutes for in club (La Liga, PL, Fa Cup, League Cup, Copa del Rey) and 2109 for Spain (professional and friendly games). Hazard with 14 903 in club (only including BPL/Ligue 1 and UCL/EL) and 2 720 with Belgium, also in the last four seasons.

To conclude, yes Oscar has played a huge amount of football since 2012. But he is not the only one in this case ! Albeit these players have never suffered continuously from a second-half-of-the-season-disappearance. I am agree to say that in 2012/2013 he played too much as he had like one and a half year of continuous football. Nonetheless one cannot attribute eternally his huge inconsistency to too much football (he is not the only one) and no pre-season. We need to admit that he is an inconsistent player and that it is his nature — he is not the first to be like that and neither will be the last. No need to hide his problems behind unsound excuses as tons of players were like this, are like this and will be like this.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

If one naively reads throughout this debate, he would end up believing that the pre-season is the bread and butter of the professional footballer — if anyone were unfortunate enough to miss one, he would suffer from inconsistency and tiredness for the forthcoming seasons. In the same way, one would come to believe that Oscar is a modern slave footballer and that he plays twice as many as other players.

One counter example : Neymar. Oscar played the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Okay. Neymar played the Copa America in 2011, the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Let's compare the minutes played by both players since 2012 — i.e. Oscar's last season in Brazil —, the result is (excluding friendly games with their club and their national team) :

Oscar : 13 123

Neymar : 14 582

Neymar has roughly played 1 400 more minutes than Oscar, which equates to 15,5 games (roughly four games per seasons). Moreover, Neymar has played 3 248 minutes in friendlies with Brazil while Oscar 2 153 — in other words, 1 100 more minutes, i.e. 12 games on four years / three games a season.

Basically, Neymar has played some seven full games in more than Oscar, and this in the last four seasons/years. Furthermore, he did all that while being the Star of Brazil and Santos and basically carrying Brazil during the World-Cup (and to some extent Santos in the Libertadores). On top of that, if my informations are correct, then he has only played one friendly game when he joined them two years ago. Yet, it did not stop him to be the joint top-scorer of the Champions League with Messi and Ronaldo — and if I am not mistaken, also the first player in history to score in the quarters, the semis and the final of the same competition.

Regarding Messi and Cristiano, they amounts to a little more than 15 000 minutes each, in the last four season — and that is solely including their appearances in La Liga and in the UCL... Another reference : Fabregas — he played in the last four seasons 14 032 minutes for in club (La Liga, PL, Fa Cup, League Cup, Copa del Rey) and 2109 for Spain (professional and friendly games). Hazard with 14 903 in club (only including BPL/Ligue 1 and UCL/EL) and 2 720 with Belgium, also in the last four seasons.

To conclude, yes Oscar has played a huge amount of football since 2012. But he is not the only one in this case ! Albeit these players have never suffered continuously from a second-half-of-the-season-disappearance. I am agree to say that in 2012/2013 he played too much as he had like one and a half year of continuous football. Nonetheless one cannot attribute eternally his huge inconsistency to too much football (he is not the only one) and no pre-season. We need to admit that he is an inconsistent player and that it is his nature — he is not the first to be like that and neither will be the last. No need to hide his problems behind unsound excuses as tons of players were like this, are like this and will be like this.

Think this is one of best posts I've seen in this thread. Absolutely nailed it regards to the minutes comparison with Neymar and you can do it with so many other guys.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

The way Iook at it is a) Oscar needs to prove he's worth a place in the upcoming season or

b ) Willian and RLC absorb his minutes and he gets sold this time next summer, and we use the money to buy Reus or x massive emerging player.

but c) Jose likes players like him, Willian because of their defensive proficiency. Which is why I see a physical but still technically proficient midfielder like RLC or maybe MvG next season coming in as false number 10s so we do not lose Cesc's playmaking presence that he does so well from deep and to improve ball recovery high up the pitch and therefore pressing ability - Oscar is not a perfect fit for the position, I recognise that. We need somebody physical there, which Oscar certainly is not and therefore would be better for his individual career if he moved to a team like Juve, where he will turn out a better player. But, currently, along with Willian he is the best defensive number 10 available on the market.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

If one naively reads throughout this debate, he would end up believing that the pre-season is the bread and butter of the professional footballer — if anyone were unfortunate enough to miss one, he would suffer from inconsistency and tiredness for the forthcoming seasons. In the same way, one would come to believe that Oscar is a modern slave footballer and that he plays twice as many as other players.

One counter example : Neymar. Oscar played the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Okay. Neymar played the Copa America in 2011, the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Let's compare the minutes played by both players since 2012 — i.e. Oscar's last season in Brazil —, the result is (excluding friendly games with their club and their national team) :

Oscar : 13 123

Neymar : 14 582

Neymar has roughly played 1 400 more minutes than Oscar, which equates to 15,5 games (roughly four games per seasons). Moreover, Neymar has played 3 248 minutes in friendlies with Brazil while Oscar 2 153 — in other words, 1 100 more minutes, i.e. 12 games on four years / three games a season.

Basically, Neymar has played some seven full games in more than Oscar, and this in the last four seasons/years. Furthermore, he did all that while being the Star of Brazil and Santos and basically carrying Brazil during the World-Cup (and to some extent Santos in the Libertadores). On top of that, if my informations are correct, then he has only played one friendly game when he joined them two years ago. Yet, it did not stop him to be the joint top-scorer of the Champions League with Messi and Ronaldo — and if I am not mistaken, also the first player in history to score in the quarters, the semis and the final of the same competition.

Regarding Messi and Cristiano, they amounts to a little more than 15 000 minutes each, in the last four season — and that is solely including their appearances in La Liga and in the UCL... Another reference : Fabregas — he played in the last four seasons 14 032 minutes for in club (La Liga, PL, Fa Cup, League Cup, Copa del Rey) and 2109 for Spain (professional and friendly games). Hazard with 14 903 in club (only including BPL/Ligue 1 and UCL/EL) and 2 720 with Belgium, also in the last four seasons.

To conclude, yes Oscar has played a huge amount of football since 2012. But he is not the only one in this case ! Albeit these players have never suffered continuously from a second-half-of-the-season-disappearance. I am agree to say that in 2012/2013 he played too much as he had like one and a half year of continuous football. Nonetheless one cannot attribute eternally his huge inconsistency to too much football (he is not the only one) and no pre-season. We need to admit that he is an inconsistent player and that it is his nature — he is not the first to be like that and neither will be the last. No need to hide his problems behind unsound excuses as tons of players were like this, are like this and will be like this.

yet again talking about minutes but not acknowledging 4 straight seasons without a pre-season, during which time he has moved team and country.

Oscar has played around 20,000 minutes in his first 6 years as a pro, compare that Messi who played around 15,000 minutes in his frst 6 years as a pro, and then factor in Oscar's lack of pre-season and you can see what Mourinho was talking about

and the Neymar comparison isnt very good as Neymar also suffered from inconsistency in the 2013/14 season, and if you watched him last season you would see his performances were far from impressive, yes he scored many goals but how many were put on a plate for him and how many did he make himself?

[The Skipper 20,609]

If one naively reads throughout this debate, he would end up believing that the pre-season is the bread and butter of the professional footballer if anyone were unfortunate enough to miss one, he would suffer from inconsistency and tiredness for the forthcoming seasons. In the same way, one would come to believe that Oscar is a modern slave footballer and that he plays twice as many as other players.

One counter example : Neymar. Oscar played the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Okay. Neymar played the Copa America in 2011, the JO in 2012, the Confederation in 2013 and the World-Cup in 2014. Let's compare the minutes played by both players since 2012 i.e. Oscar's last season in Brazil , the result is (excluding friendly games with their club and their national team) :

Oscar : 13 123

Neymar : 14 582

Neymar has roughly played 1 400 more minutes than Oscar, which equates to 15,5 games (roughly four games per seasons). Moreover, Neymar has played 3 248 minutes in friendlies with Brazil while Oscar 2 153 in other words, 1 100 more minutes, i.e. 12 games on four years / three games a season.

Basically, Neymar has played some seven full games in more than Oscar, and this in the last four seasons/years. Furthermore, he did all that while being the Star of Brazil and Santos and basically carrying Brazil during the World-Cup (and to some extent Santos in the Libertadores). On top of that, if my informations are correct, then he has only played one friendly game when he joined them two years ago. Yet, it did not stop him to be the joint top-scorer of the Champions League with Messi and Ronaldo and if I am not mistaken, also the first player in history to score in the quarters, the semis and the final of the same competition.

Regarding Messi and Cristiano, they amounts to a little more than 15 000 minutes each, in the last four season and that is solely including their appearances in La Liga and in the UCL... Another reference : Fabregas he played in the last four seasons 14 032 minutes for in club (La Liga, PL, Fa Cup, League Cup, Copa del Rey) and 2109 for Spain (professional and friendly games). Hazard with 14 903 in club (only including BPL/Ligue 1 and UCL/EL) and 2 720 with Belgium, also in the last four seasons.

To conclude, yes Oscar has played a huge amount of football since 2012. But he is not the only one in this case ! Albeit these players have never suffered continuously from a second-half-of-the-season-disappearance. I am agree to say that in 2012/2013 he played too much as he had like one and a half year of continuous football. Nonetheless one cannot attribute eternally his huge inconsistency to too much football (he is not the only one) and no pre-season. We need to admit that he is an inconsistent player and that it is his nature he is not the first to be like that and neither will be the last. No need to hide his problems behind unsound excuses as tons of players were like this, are like this and will be like this.

Peace has spoken. /closethread

[Gilvorak 3,734]

https://youtu.be/Tp9MmWIND4w?t=65

Who remembers this bit of genius by Oscar in that Juve nightmare game? One of the best individual runs I've seen any Chelsea player make. I have complete faith in him.

[Clockwork 1,794]

It showed be obvious to anyone at this point, that Oscar has stamina issues and he is quite clearly physically undeveloped. No point arguing that, hopefully this is a focus of his.

But when i see Oscar minutes compared to extraordinary fit players like Alexis, Willian, Messi, and Ronaldo. I am like oh so what is your point? Those players are extremely fit they can handle those type of minutes and work load. Those players are extremely fit and i knew that, Oscar can not handle those minutes i already knew that too. It is just stating the obvious, everyone and their mothers knows that.

But it is not really applicable argument against why Oscar wouldn't benefit from a summer rest. It should be obvious no that a player that lacks good stamina/endurance would benefit from a good amount of rest?

Btw Neymar 2013/2014 season was kinda like Oscar's to an extent. In fact Barca fans will tell you that, and some believed that he was saving himself for the World Cup. Also Neymar injury in the world cup gave him some appropriate rest, just to be clear on that.

Anyway the season starts in just over a month, we will see what would be the case.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Why would you even compare Neymar to Oscar? Physically the former is streets ahead, same thing with Hazard. Not to mention neither put in the kilometres Oscar does in games.

[The Skipper 20,609]

https://youtu.be/Tp9MmWIND4w?t=65

Who remembers this bit of genius by Oscar in that Juve nightmare game? One of the best individual runs I've seen any Chelsea player make. I have complete faith in him.

This is my problem with Oscar. This game which was almost 3 years ago now is still his best ever in a CFC shirt, by quite some distance as well. He hasn't performed anywhere near that level consistently enough.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

This is my problem with Oscar. This game which was almost 3 years ago now is still his best ever in a CFC shirt, by quite some distance as well. He hasn't performed anywhere near that level consistently enough.

He's always been very good in the 1st half of the season. The problem is he keeps disappearing in January. I think fatigue is the main culprit here. Funnily enough, Hazard is the complete opposite, he's usually average at the start of the season but always saves his best for the 2nd half.