🇧🇷 Oscar

[remains of the day 564]

No big club would make Mata their centerpiece....... However, swansea city would be a good fit with the spanish contigent and Landrup there.

Interesting comment. It seems like there's this undervaluing of Mata that's becoming the norm on here. The bemusing thing is, we're talking about a player who, let's be real, was among the best no. 10 in Europe last season. A player who was shortlisted for PFA, produced 12 goals,12 assists in the league, had 28 assists in all comps last season, created 95 chances in the league.

Basically this is someone who in the past two seasons has emerged as one of the best in his position, someone who is the source of envy from our rival fans, who many neutrals would describe as 'genuine world class'. But despite all of that, for some reason many on here believe that we're too good for him, that he's not the type of player that a "big club would build a team around." I mean Mata, Swansea calibre? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm actually starting to believe that the main reason why Mata is so undervalued by some sections of fans has nothing to do with any of his limitations as a footballer but rather more of the fact that he's not the star of the Spanish NT unlike our younger more 'hotter' talents who are for their respective national teams. The truth is, some fans on here have a problem with Mata being our best player because (in their eyes) he's only a benchwarmer for Spain and that just doesn't fit with their narrative of the type of player a title-challenging club like chelsea should build a team around. If we're being honest, that's really what this undervaluing of Mata is about.

Yeah Oscar has a fantastic work-rate and he's a talent, but what in actuality makes him more favourable as the "main man" to some fans on here is that he's also a young prospect who's an undisputed starter in the number 10 position for Brazil.

[Korea 734]

Interesting comment. It seems like there's this undervaluing of Mata that's becoming the norm on here. The bemusing thing is, we're talking about a player who, let's be real, was among the best no. 10 in Europe last season. A player who was shortlisted for PFA, produced 12 goals,12 assists in the league, had 28 assists in all comps last season, created 95 chances in the league.

Basically this is someone who in the past two seasons has emerged as one of the best in his position, someone who is the source of envy from our rival fans, who many neutrals would describe as 'genuine world class'. But despite all of that, for some reason many on here believe that we're too good for him, that he's not the type of player that a "big club would build a team around." I mean Mata, Swansea calibre? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm actually starting to believe that the main reason why Mata is so undervalued by some sections of fans has nothing to do with any of his limitations as a footballer but rather more of the fact that he's not the star of the Spanish NT unlike our younger more 'hotter' talents who are for their respective national teams. The truth is, some fans on here have a problem with Mata being our best player because (in their eyes) he's only a benchwarmer for Spain and that just doesn't fit with their narrative of the type of player a title-challenging club like chelsea should build a team around. If we're being honest, that's really what this undervaluing of Mata is about.

Yeah Oscar has a fantastic work-rate and he's a talent, but what in actuality makes him more favourable as the "main man" to some fans on here is that he's also a young prospect who's an undisputed starter in the number 10 position for Brazil.

It's not really undervaluing...

If anything, people here overrate Chelsea players to the max... Similar to a lot of English clubs.. Coutinho is god. Carrick is world class CM. Jack is world class. etc

Also, Swansea play fantastic football, probably the best football outside of Arsenal and a system of play that Mata would probably be very fond with. I don't get why you guys took negatively, but I never said Swansea calibre. I said he would fit in Swansea with their style of play and the team makeup. Also, Michu got called up to Spain NT even though he plays for Swansea.....

Please name me a big team that would use Mata as their centerpiece right now...

PSG want him, are they big enough?

PSG wanted him, but never went into negotiations for him. In addition, when you have Cavani who starts sometimes and plays on the wings a lot of games, you really think Mata would be featured when Zlatan is like the hybrid number9-10.

How about PSG, United, AC Milan, Inter, Arsenal - a fully fit and firing Mata is a better all-round player than Ozil or Cazorla, their two best players..

PSG- nope

United- have a Mata clone rotting the bench right now

Milan- revolves around Mario Balotelli (which is exactly why SES stats dropped when Balo came onto the team)

Inter- for a team that had Coutinho and sold him for scraps, you really think Mata would fare better on that team...(Is Inter considered a big team now?)

Arsenal- NO

[Korea 734]

They say he's not creative.

They say he's not a adequate goalscorer.

After this season, all of this will be put to rest in Europe...

[Special Juan 28,141]

What a player.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Bullshit. We did for two years. Many other clubs would have done too.

We finished 6th and 3rd and got eliminated at the group stage of the Champions League.

Yes we won the Champions League but Mata was fairly anonymous in both the final and the semi-final.

Interesting comment. It seems like there's this undervaluing of Mata that's becoming the norm on here. The bemusing thing is, we're talking about a player who, let's be real, was among the best no. 10 in Europe last season. A player who was shortlisted for PFA, produced 12 goals,12 assists in the league, had 28 assists in all comps last season, created 95 chances in the league.

Basically this is someone who in the past two seasons has emerged as one of the best in his position, someone who is the source of envy from our rival fans, who many neutrals would describe as 'genuine world class'. But despite all of that, for some reason many on here believe that we're too good for him, that he's not the type of player that a "big club would build a team around." I mean Mata, Swansea calibre? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm actually starting to believe that the main reason why Mata is so undervalued by some sections of fans has nothing to do with any of his limitations as a footballer but rather more of the fact that he's not the star of the Spanish NT unlike our younger more 'hotter' talents who are for their respective national teams. The truth is, some fans on here have a problem with Mata being our best player because (in their eyes) he's only a benchwarmer for Spain and that just doesn't fit with their narrative of the type of player a title-challenging club like chelsea should build a team around. If we're being honest, that's really what this undervaluing of Mata is about.

Yeah Oscar has a fantastic work-rate and he's a talent, but what in actuality makes him more favourable as the "main man" to some fans on here is that he's also a young prospect who's an undisputed starter in the number 10 position for Brazil.

Apart from the stats you've pasted in there, I don't think a single word of that is true. I don't think any supporters give a fuck whether or not a player is their national team's star man or whatever.

Mata is a great player but he can blow hot and cold sometimes and he can disappear in matches. Oscar is always working hard for the team and that's what a lot of people appreciate - he also happens to be scoring goals and providing bits of magic in each game.

[Rmpr 8,977]

The posts in this thread are ridiculous!

Both Oscar and Mata play for Chelsea, it is not a fight to see who is 'better'...

[The Mak 4,459]

Interesting comment. It seems like there's this undervaluing of Mata that's becoming the norm on here. The bemusing thing is, we're talking about a player who, let's be real, was among the best no. 10 in Europe last season. A player who was shortlisted for PFA, produced 12 goals,12 assists in the league, had 28 assists in all comps last season, created 95 chances in the league.

Basically this is someone who in the past two seasons has emerged as one of the best in his position, someone who is the source of envy from our rival fans, who many neutrals would describe as 'genuine world class'. But despite all of that, for some reason many on here believe that we're too good for him, that he's not the type of player that a "big club would build a team around." I mean Mata, Swansea calibre? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm actually starting to believe that the main reason why Mata is so undervalued by some sections of fans has nothing to do with any of his limitations as a footballer but rather more of the fact that he's not the star of the Spanish NT unlike our younger more 'hotter' talents who are for their respective national teams. The truth is, some fans on here have a problem with Mata being our best player because (in their eyes) he's only a benchwarmer for Spain and that just doesn't fit with their narrative of the type of player a title-challenging club like chelsea should build a team around. If we're being honest, that's really what this undervaluing of Mata is about.

Yeah Oscar has a fantastic work-rate and he's a talent, but what in actuality makes him more favourable as the "main man" to some fans on here is that he's also a young prospect who's an undisputed starter in the number 10 position for Brazil.

Don't forget the fear of disagreeing with José; which then leads to fear of disagreeing with the accepted 'norm' around here.

The whole 'Mata Vs. Oscar' argument is bull anyway. Everyone compares Mata and Oscar in different circumstances, a.k.a. different seasons, different teams, different managers, different systems etc.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Don't forget the fear of disagreeing with José; which then leads to fear of disagreeing with the accepted 'norm' around here.

The whole 'Mata Vs. Oscar' argument is bull anyway. Everyone compares Mata and Oscar in different circumstances, a.k.a. different seasons, different teams, different managers, different systems etc.

There's not a fear of disagreeing with Mourinho, but a few people do consider him to be far more knowledgable about football and the players that he handles on a day-to-day basis.

Not me though...I'm very much of the belief that Mourinho comes on this forum, looks at my views and acts accordingly.

[Special Juan 28,141]

There's not a fear of disagreeing with Mourinho, but a few people do consider him to be far more knowledgable about football and the players that he handles on a day-to-day basis.

Not me though...I'm very much of the belief that Mourinho comes on this forum, looks at my views and acts accordingly.

Post of the year.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

We finished 6th and 3rd and got eliminated at the group stage of the Champions League.

Yes we won the Champions League but Mata was fairly anonymous in both the final and the semi-final.

Apart from the stats you've pasted in there, I don't think a single word of that is true. I don't think any supporters give a fuck whether or not a player is their national team's star man or whatever.

Mata is a great player but he can blow hot and cold sometimes and he can disappear in matches. Oscar is always working hard for the team and that's what a lot of people appreciate - he also happens to be scoring goals and providing bits of magic in each game.

...but the point still stands we built our team around him and carried Chelsea for more or less 2 seasons. Doesn't matter if he didn't perform in the CL final or semi final where we we faced arguably the two best sides in Europe at the time in Barcelona and Bayern Munich. You're overlooking his performances against the Arsenals, Man Uniteds, Man Citys, Tottenhams etc of the PL since he came here and the likes of Juventus, Napoli, Valencia, Bayer Leverkusen, Shakhtar in the Champions League. He was burned out at times too but he still did a lot more than some of his team mates in that two seasons. Sure his form was and still is streaky but still he was class for us over those two years. Hazard has still to set the world alight here after a 'decent' debut season and Oscar is finally hitting a high level of consistency.

I agree with you about the national team thing though, if they are regulars for their country or not I couldn't give a shit, thats why I'd like to see Courtois back here competing with Cech for the GK spot next season or even this season could have been good competition if we didn't sign Schwartzer. If they are good enough they will continue to be picked like De Bruyne has been recently and what Italy do with players under Prandelli who perhaps aren't regulars or haven't played well like what happened with De Rossi last season.

[tapa 11]

FIRST SEASON: shit

SECOND SEASON : good

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

FIRST SEASON: shit

SECOND SEASON : good

Shits a bit harsh, obviously he had never played in Europe so he had to take longer to accustomize to the league than Ramires or Luiz because they had previously played in Europe. There is a big jump from South American football to any sort of European football never mind going straight to the Premier League, obviously he took to the CL instantly but he gradually improved in the PL and got better and better but was very inconsistent.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Not me though...I'm very much of the belief that Mourinho comes on this forum, looks at my views and acts accordingly.

Shhh...Dont blow my cover!

[Korea 734]

I dont really understand this getting accustom nonsense..

He played out wide in the PL rather than through the center...Shit, if Rafa was still the manager, we would still being saying how Oscar is subpar -decent as a rw.

Please tell me how Mata is doing out wide this year.... I guess he needs to get accustom to the PL as well.

[Sheva. 5,373]

I dont really understand this getting accustom nonsense..

He played out wide in the PL rather than through the center...Shit, if Rafa was still the manager, we would still being saying how Oscar is subpar -decent as a rw.

Please tell me how Mata is doing out wide this year.... I guess he needs to get accustom to the PL as well.

I truly wonder what Mata did to you, because you seem to have some weird hatred for one of the best players in the league, who also plays for the team you support.

This isn't like Kalou where people hated on an average player, Mata on and off the pitch has only done good things since he came here, yet he's now no longer relevant to some people and should be playing for Swansea, lol.

If he leaves Chelsea, he will join another top club and maintain his place as one of the best play makers in Europe for a while yet.

[Korea 734]

I truly wonder what Mata did to you, because you seem to have some weird hatred for one of the best players in the league, who also plays for the team you support.

This isn't like Kalou where people hated on an average player, Mata on and off the pitch has only done good things since he came here, yet he's now no longer relevant to some people and should be playing for Swansea, lol.

If he leaves Chelsea, he will join another top club and maintain his place as one of the best play makers in Europe for a while yet.

I like how you degrade swansea when we lost to them in the CC (With our first team guys) and drew a game as well last season.

In addition, I don't hate Mata. I just dont think he's as good as you guys make him out to be... Similar to my opinions on Lampard...

Also, if he can't play as a cam, he's not better than Schurrle and Willian as a rw....Please tell me what top club would make him their primary man on their team.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

I dont really understand this getting accustom nonsense..

He played out wide in the PL rather than through the center...Shit, if Rafa was still the manager, we would still being saying how Oscar is subpar -decent as a rw.

Please tell me how Mata is doing out wide this year.... I guess he needs to get accustom to the PL as well.

Lol what? You think because Mata isn't playing well its because he isn't accustomed to the PL at the start of his third season in it?

Anyway Oscars first season was good enough for coming straight in from South American football I feel. I was anxious, we were paying 25m for a largely unproven player but after seeing him in the Olympics he looked a good buy. Oscar played out on the wing 9 times out of 10 for us but played as a wide #10 more than anything, similar to what Cazorla has done on the left wing for Arsenal. Hes better in the #10 position but we can also say so is Mata, so is Hazard, so is De Bruyne and so is Willian, thats where they have the best stats in their careers.

From a team point of view, Oscar is better in the #10 role, especially when we go to press off the ball as he is more mobile and can apply pressure to the opposition double pivot quicker but he is also better at creating space for himself and linking the play. Mata is back in the team though so I am more than glad, his creativity was sorely missed.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

I dont really understand this getting accustom nonsense..

He played out wide in the PL rather than through the center...Shit, if Rafa was still the manager, we would still being saying how Oscar is subpar -decent as a rw.

Please tell me how Mata is doing out wide this year.... I guess he needs to get accustom to the PL as well.

I hate double posts

[Sheva. 5,373]

I like how you degrade swansea when we lost to them in the CC (With our first team guys) and drew a game as well last season.

In addition, I don't hate Mata. I just dont think he's as good as you guys make him out to be... Similar to my opinions on Lampard...

Also, if he can't play as a cam, he's not better than Schurrle and Willian as a rw....Please tell me what top club would make him their primary man on their team.

I don't degrade anyone, Swansea are a good midtable side with a formidable home record, nothing else. I'm talking of top clubs and you're talking of Swansea, who were just in Championship 2 seasons ago lol.

Mata is a very good player with some flaws, but his strengths are among the best in his position and this is why his weaknesses can be worked around by most teams and managers.

If Mata plays as RW or RB, he is still the most creative player on the pitch, but he doesn't have the pace for this position. Especially not now with Mourinho's counter attacking style, but he doesn't complain and still tries to do what the manager wants.

[Barbara 15,149]

and here I thought I clicked on Oscar's thread...