🇧🇪 Eden Hazard

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

41 minutes ago, Vesper said:

The thing is, as much as I prefer right-footed LWers and left-footed RWers (aka inverted), Pulisic has mostly always played as a RW, despite his right-footedness.

I therefore cannot conclude that Pulisic is a replacement for Hazard at LW. I list him as such in my projections (after we buy 2 legit left-footed RWers like Pepe or Malcom or Suso or Bailey or David Neres, pick two of the five), but not sure if we will play Pulisic there (at LW).

Assuming we lose both CHO and Eden

My LW preferences would be (given that my top choices are not doable and/or not available, ie. Mbappe, Sane, Dembele, Sancho,  Vinícius Júnior, Anthony Martial (although really want him as a CF) and Lorenzo Insigne) would be:

Hirving Lozano, Thomas Lemar, Ismaïla Sarr, Thorgan Hazard, Kingsley Coman, Mikel Oyarzabal, Steven Bergwijn, and finally Marco Asensio (obviously would be part of a RN swap deal, zero chance we drop close to the £90 to £100m (or more) on him as a standalone all cash deal that RM would demand).

Wild card would be Coutinho, who can play at LW (I would think we would use him as our AMF though, ie the Hamsik role), but he is £100m.

If we are going (doubt we would) pure WC-potential youth buys route

by far the best ones (not counting the few I put in above)

would be

LW     Willem Geubbels, Paulinho, Alphonso Davies (Bayern just bought him, lolol,), Rodrygo (RM just bought him this summer from Santos, he joins next year, so they will have FOUR (counting Eden) WC or potential WC LWers, they surely would have to sell one, I think they are cray to buy Hazard, as they are LOADED with 3 YOUNG potential superstars,Vinícius Júnior is blowing up as we speak) , Justin Kluivert,  and Javairô Dilrosun

RW       Ferrán Torres, Reiss Nelson (super tough pull as he is on loan from Arsenal, who would never sell him to us), and Samuel Chukwueze

 

I mean more like a role to be filled. Pulisic will do imo. To win the heart of Chelsea fans.

We all know Willian will be taking the LW, if we sell Hazard and Cho . Kidding.

Think Pedro will be our LW and Cho as the backup next season, if Hazard leaving.

Well it is interesting you mention Sancho as an option for the LW while assuming that Pulisic more like a RW, as Dortmund fans always saying that he is the one who single handedly benching Pulisic.

Anyway, wingers in this modern era of football should be able to play in both flanks though.

[Vesper 30,172]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Talking about the bigger picture here. Him playing as the false nine has nothing to do with this.

Oh, yes, for sure, but his being forced to play the false nine surely isn't helping his 'consistency' this year. Just my 2 quid worth of thought.

[Clockwork 1,794]

39 minutes ago, Jason said:

The bigger point here is that Hazard has never pushed himself, like Messi/Ronaldo, to be even better, to elevate himself to the next level. He's good but it feels like he's just stuck at the same level year in year out. And the consistency has been a big issue as well. 

Hazard is more like Ronaldinho than Messi and Ronaldo, give the guy a break he has been surrounded by less than superb players for majority of his Chelsea career especially in attack. 

[Vesper 30,172]

1 minute ago, RoyalBlues said:

 

Well it is interesting you mention Sancho as an option for the LW while assuming that Pulisic more like a RW, as Dortmund fans always saying that he is the one who single handedly benching Pulisic.

That RW/LW thing at Dortmund is hard to quantify. Sancho is now backed to being listed as a LW (which is what I think his best position is at the end of the day) but yes, absolutely, he has benched Pulisic at RW. Almost all his games in the Bundesliga have been as a RW, with his LW starts coming in other cup ties and CL.

I think he is good enough to play either wing (obviously), but could so see him being our starting LW (pipe dream!).

Dortmund has been using a LB (Raphaël Guerreiro, who is now listed as a LMF) at LW a lot. Their formations are so complicated it makes positional categorisation a tad difficult. They also have another great young LW in Jacob Bruun Larsen, who may soon join AC on the Danish national team) and another young decent RW in Marius Wolf.

IF CHO (and it looks like he is) hellbent on going to play in the Bundesliga, I would so much rather see us sell him to Dortmund, with the same sort of 'right of first refusal/price match' deal that Shitty has on Sancho. Bayern will never agree to that I fear, AND I think CHO would get more time at Dortmund than at Bayern. Bayern now has 2 other potentially WC LWers since they bought Davies, plus Kingsley Coman and already have Serge Gnabry, who is hardly chopped liver, at LW as well. With Robben retiring, they have NO real RW. Either Davies or CHO (unless they buy another RW) will have to play there. I cannot buy into the spin that CHO will be happy at RW, he is all about the left.

Dortmund could just shift back Raphaël Guerreiro to his natural LB slot, and let CHO and Bruun Larsen fight it out for LW (I think CHO would win).

[Vesper 30,172]

6 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Hazard is more like Ronaldinho than Messi and Ronaldo, give the guy a break he has been surrounded by less than superb players for majority of his Chelsea career especially in attack. 

 Ronaldinho had superb teammates in his 5 years at Barca. Far beyond anything Hazard has ever had.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

22 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 Ronaldinho had superb teammates in his 5 years at Barca. Far beyond anything Hazard has ever had.

This Hazard hasn't had good team mates shit is ridiculous in all fairness. Same with the proper overlapping LB crap. We didnt win 2 PL titles or whatever else we have won when Hazard has been here by luck.

He has had good/very good team mates in his spell here. Very very good ones like Mata, Fabregas, Matic (who ironically enough, some on here regarded as the best DM in the world for a time before deciding Bakayoko was 100 times better 😂), Kante, Costa.... fair enough not a massive list but in 6 or 7 years there has been very good players around him and even others.

Its just another excuse, you would think he was playing with Marko Marin and an aged out Malouda all the time in attack. Fair enough Willian and Pedro arent amazing but until the club signs somebody better they cannot be directly blamed or the false 9 position or Mourinho/Conte/Sarri, for Edens inconsistencies and poor performances at times. The buck stops with him.

Ronaldinho at his best was just ridiculous and had an unbelievably natural talent where he could virtually do anything he wanted on a football pitch and it would come off perfectly. Like Messi has got. Like Neymar as well.

[Clockwork 1,794]

47 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 Ronaldinho had superb teammates in his 5 years at Barca. Far beyond anything Hazard has ever had.

That is my point, i mean he is similar to Ronaldinho in that sense he is not as ruthless as Messi and Ronaldo. A player who loves to enjoy the game and let the game come to him.  

Accept Hazard for who he is a superb player, one of the finest players with the ball at his feet. 

 

[Vesper 30,172]

19 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

This Hazard hasn't had good team mates shit is ridiculous in all fairness. Same with the proper overlapping LB crap. We didnt win 2 PL titles or whatever else we have won when Hazard has been here by luck.

He has had good/very good team mates in his spell here. Very very good ones like Mata, Fabregas, Matic (who ironically enough, some on here regarded as the best DM in the world for a time before deciding Bakayoko was 100 times better 😂), Kante, Costa.... fair enough not a massive list but in 6 or 7 years there has been very good players around him and even others.

Its just another excuse, you would think he was playing with Marko Marin and an aged out Malouda all the time in attack. Fair enough Willian and Pedro arent amazing but until the club signs somebody better they cannot be directly blamed or the false 9 position or Mourinho/Conte/Sarri, for Edens inconsistencies and poor performances at times. The buck stops with him.

Ronaldinho at his best was just ridiculous and had an unbelievably natural talent where he could virtually do anything he wanted on a football pitch and it would come off perfectly. Like Messi has got. Like Neymar as well.

I have never said Hazard isnt world class because of his teammates, I was only addressing the Ronaldniho teammates versus Eden's teammates subject.

[Vesper 30,172]

23 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

That is my point, i mean he is similar to Ronaldinho in that sense he is not as ruthless as Messi and Ronaldo. A player who loves to enjoy the game and let the game come to him.  

Accept Hazard for who he is a superb player, one of the finest players with the ball at his feet. 

 

Somehow I stumbled into thsi is Eden world class or not argument. ALL I was saying was a very narrow point, in that Ronaldinho had better teammates at Barca than Eden has had at Chelsea. I made no comment as to whether Eden is world class or not and if that (the teammates thing) had anything to do with it.

Let me now address THOSE things

1 Yes, Eden is world class, easily so.

2 No, although Ronaldinho had better teammates, that (not having as good as teammates) is not an excuse for anyone to say it had an effect on Eden's being world class.

3 Peak Ronaldinho was better than peak Hazard, irregardless of teammates

Hope this clears it all up to where I stand.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

15 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

This Hazard hasn't had good team mates shit is ridiculous in all fairness. Same with the proper overlapping LB crap. We didnt win 2 PL titles or whatever else we have won when Hazard has been here by luck.

He has had good/very good team mates in his spell here. Very very good ones like Mata, Fabregas, Matic (who ironically enough, some on here regarded as the best DM in the world for a time before deciding Bakayoko was 100 times better 😂), Kante, Costa.... fair enough not a massive list but in 6 or 7 years there has been very good players around him and even others.

Its just another excuse, you would think he was playing with Marko Marin and an aged out Malouda all the time in attack. Fair enough Willian and Pedro arent amazing but until the club signs somebody better they cannot be directly blamed or the false 9 position or Mourinho/Conte/Sarri, for Edens inconsistencies and poor performances at times. The buck stops with him.

Ronaldinho at his best was just ridiculous and had an unbelievably natural talent where he could virtually do anything he wanted on a football pitch and it would come off perfectly. Like Messi has got. Like Neymar as well.

Very good teammates huh let's see shall we.

RW :In the 7 years that Hazard has been here only Mata has ever been close to Hazard's quality and he only played with Mata in his first year, second year Mata was 4th choice and left mid season. That's the closest Hazard has ever gotten to another superstar sharing the load.

The rest he's had to play with average players such as Moses, Willian, Oscar, Schurrle and Pedro.

ST :He's had to play with Torres for his first 2 years and his last 2 years with Morata. 

He played with Costa for 3 years. Not a coincidence that those 2 PL titles were won in the only three years he actually had a proper striker to play with. 

LB: Then there's also the left backs he's had to play with. A past his prime A Cole, a right footed Azpi and Alonso. 

[Vesper 30,172]

36 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

That is my point, i mean he is similar to Ronaldinho in that sense he is not as ruthless as Messi and Ronaldo. A player who loves to enjoy the game and let the game come to him.  

Accept Hazard for who he is a superb player, one of the finest players with the ball at his feet. 

 

I accept Hazard always, and hope to fuck he stays, but I doubt it.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Could not care less about a player who is not committed and wants out. Good luck... not!

Quick example: second half against Arsenal, Eden drops back and attempts go past two Arsenal players; beats the first and is fouled by the second and goes to the ground. No question, clear foul. Meanwhile, Giroud was completely unmarked a few yards to the left waiting for a pass that never came. The result is that our attack was slowed down by his decision to favor dribbling, which he does quite often. Whether Giroud would've been able to continue the play is also irrelevant, because you got to play with your teammates.

In tough games, like against Arsenal, (not all games against big clubs are tough) he will get fouled often. Same in single-elimination CL matches. He will never be able to consistently influence tough games unless he learns how to deal with that: mostly with quick passes and movement (on and off the ball).

Regarding whether he is world class or not, yes of course he is. On the other hand, you've got to pick one: either he's that good and therefore will very often play alongside players who are much less than him, or he is not that much better and requires more support to play well. I personally think he belongs in the latter category. So, while I think he may achieve more success at Madrid if they fix their shit (it's the richest club after all), his influence will be largely the same. 

[Vesper 30,172]

9 minutes ago, Robchels said:

So, while I think he may achieve more success at Madrid if they fix their shit (it's the richest club after all), his influence will be largely the same. 

3rd richest. Shitty and PSG could blow them (and all others) away if there were no FFP.

[robsblubot 3,595]

30 minutes ago, Vesper said:

3rd richest. Shitty and PSG could blow them (and all others) away if there were no FFP.

fair enough, but the point stands.

Make it the "biggest" club then, if you count structure, youth system, franchise, and silverware.

[Vesper 30,172]

11 minutes ago, Robchels said:

fair enough, but the point stands.

Make it the "biggest" club then, if you count structure, youth system, franchise, and silverware.

Oh yes. Absolutely Real is the 'biggest' club in the world. No one else is close.

[Unionjack 7,531]

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

That he will frustrate any manager that tries to convert him into a shoot on site player because that isn't the way he plays.

Or that he is just a frustrating sit on the fence kinda guy that can never make up his mind what to do!

[BlueLyon 9,359]

5 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

This Hazard hasn't had good team mates shit is ridiculous in all fairness. Same with the proper overlapping LB crap. We didnt win 2 PL titles or whatever else we have won when Hazard has been here by luck.

He has had good/very good team mates in his spell here. Very very good ones like Mata, Fabregas, Matic (who ironically enough, some on here regarded as the best DM in the world for a time before deciding Bakayoko was 100 times better 😂), Kante, Costa.... fair enough not a massive list but in 6 or 7 years there has been very good players around him and even others.

Its just another excuse, you would think he was playing with Marko Marin and an aged out Malouda all the time in attack. Fair enough Willian and Pedro arent amazing but until the club signs somebody better they cannot be directly blamed or the false 9 position or Mourinho/Conte/Sarri, for Edens inconsistencies and poor performances at times. The buck stops with him.

Ronaldinho at his best was just ridiculous and had an unbelievably natural talent where he could virtually do anything he wanted on a football pitch and it would come off perfectly. Like Messi has got. Like Neymar as well.

Mate two things.

Dont ever compare Neymar with Ronaldinho. Ronnie at his best was just pure filth, he could do absolutely anything. Neymar is great, but nowhere near. Talent wise yes, but he just doesnt have that grace and magic Ronnie had. And his diving is a disgrace.

Hazard, Neymar,...these players are all great but Ronaldinho, Zidane, Messi are goats.

Secondly I agree with Hazard part. Its bs that he needs better players to deliver. He had world class games with current lot and then had shit games with current lot. Its up to him to turn up. 

BUT that said he would be better in team (here or somehwere else) with more stability. If he played with same good players that wouldnt be as inconsistent as ours for several years, he would enter next level, Im pretty sure of that.

[Unionjack 7,531]

Chelsea's Eden Hazard: Maurizio Sarri and I share 'same footballing ideas'

http://www.espn.co.uk/soccer/chelsea/story/3756249/chelseas-eden-hazard-maurizio-sarri-and-i-share-same-footballing-ideas

 

This says a lot!!!

Quote

But Hazard claimed he is more interested in entertaining than money or even winning, citing the recent 1-0 Carabao Cup semifinal first-leg defeat to Tottenham as a match in which he "wasn't happy, because we had lost but deep down inside, I was happy with my performance and our performance."

 

[Unionjack 7,531]

ONE thing I did like in that interview was when he said he wouldn't go to Manure even if ZZ took over!

[Special Juan 28,141]

I didn't think anyone could talk more than wife.