Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Sorry but we can't seat and watch the rockets flying over our heads,

No, but apparently you can sit and watch REAL rockets from warships and F16 planes rain down on civilians (with a big bucket of popcorn!):

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Mohammed Seif Watch it:

Your point?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And? You think those few people are present the all country?

No. You think Muslim extremists represent all Palestinans? You want to get rid of extremism? Why do you start with those people? Eliminate the extremism in your own population and the extremism on the other side will be A LOT less. It must be easier than bombing Hamas and killing civilians instead.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

They want to many things they don't gonna get

Did anyone say on this thread that they are rational people? I don't think so. But you said before that there is no difference between Hamas and Fateh ( who have been for decades seeking a diplomatic solution). I believe Stingray, Fulham and Chalou have suggested that if Israel would make some REAL peaceful actions, the likes of Hamas will just dissolve. That is 100% true as the Palastenians will clearly see that diplomocy is making their lives better, and they themselves will end Hamas without you having to fire a single bullet. It will definitely take time as it is not an on/off switch. Other countries like Egypt,Lebanon, Jordan will start cooperating in order to make the lives of the Palestinians better. But that is not the Israeli approach. As a matter of fact the Isreali approach to the problem only invites more hostility to the region and less cooperation from your neighbors. Sooner or later, the U.S will fail to support Israel as their economical crisis is jsut increasing along with the rate of social injustice. You will have to face this on your own. That will not turn out well for the both parties. So you have to start thinking more strategically and rationally for the sake of the future of Israel and Palestine. But if you keep the arrogance and denial of the others right for a human living, education, health and economy, I am afraid the future will be troubling.

[jasonlol 154]

zzzz are there people on this thread that are still defending people who have this as their charter http://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

this thread bores me.

[Kieran. 6,317]

zzzz are there people on this thread that are still defending people who have this as their charter http://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

this thread bores me.

And you clearly haven't read a word of the thread.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

And you clearly haven't read a word of the thread.

LOOOOL. I was about to type that.

[jasonlol 154]

And you clearly haven't read a word of the thread.

Tbh just glanced through but felt the need to remind everyone what a horrid group hamas is . Carry on fellow tekkers!

[jasonlol 154]

Not a single person here denied Israel to defend itself. But you have to be level headed. Hamas "rockets" are useless without your iron dome. They are even more useless with your iron dome. It would have been understandable if you carried out operations to take out their leaders specifically. For crying out loud one Khaled Mishal is living safely in Qatar and all you can do is take it out in the Palestinian civilians. That says a lot about the effectiveness and morality of the the Israeli military.

I think I understand your post, but I have a different philosophy to the morality of war. As a country your main job is to protect the rights of your individuals and if say a group like hamas fires from a civilian area on your civilians(no matter how strong or not the rocket is), it is indeed nice to avoid casaulties but if you do fire back the blood the casaulites is on their hands since they were the aggressors. Now I know on this thread there will be disagreements as to who fired first blah blah, but I was more saying this to illustrate how I see the morality of war.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I think I understand your post, but I have a different philosophy to the morality of war. As a country your main job is to protect the rights of your individuals and if say a group like hamas fires from a civilian area on your civilians(no matter how strong or not the rocket is), it is indeed nice to avoid casaulties but if you do fire back the blood the casaulites is on their hands since they were the aggressors. Now I know on this thread there will be disagreements as to who fired first blah blah, but I was more saying this to illustrate how I see the morality of war.

Seriously? You are justifying that 80% of the dead are civilians and only 20% "might be" Hamas. Even the Some of the Israelis here on this thread don't like that. That demonstrates how incompetent a military is. It shows they can not pick their targets with their latest state of the art technology. Not to mention, it raises other questions about the intentions of the attack mate.

[jasonlol 154]

Seriously? You are justifying that 80% of the dead are civilians and only 20% "might be" Hamas. Even the Some of the Israelis here on this thread don't like that. That demonstrates how incompetent a military is. It shows they can not pick their targets with their latest state of the art technology. Not to mention, it raises other questions about the intentions of the attack mate.

I doubt the 80-20 ratio but even if true; yes, blood still on hands of aggressor (hamas in this case). If IDF has Intel on a certain building(storage of weapons or w/e), its their responsibility to defend their civilians. Tragic as it sounds.. next time don't vote terrorists(they are fighting egypt to!) in.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I doubt the 80-20 ratio but even if true; yes, blood still on hands of aggressor (hamas in this case). If IDF has Intel on a certain building(storage of weapons or w/e), its their responsibility to defend their civilians. Tragic as it sounds.. next time don't vote terrorists(they are fighting egypt to!) in.

Don't doubt, just read the UN reports and the American news regarding the civilian casualties. And go back and read the thread, no one votes for Hamas. I think I know much more about what is going on in Egypt than you do. Simply because the western media does not report much. And no, the blood is not on Hamas, it is as equally on Hamas as it is on the IDF.

[jasonlol 154]

Don't doubt, just read the UN reports and the American news regarding the civilian casualties. And go back and read the thread, no one votes for Hamas. I think I know much more about what is going on in Egypt than you do. Simply because the western media does not report much. And no, the blood is not on Hamas, it is as equally on Hamas as it is on the IDF.

im not accusing you of supporting hamas(im well aware of your correct opposition to such a group). and yes you do know more about egypt than I do, and we will just have to disagree on last point. Like the way I see it is if you say its idf fault as well; thats saying that if someone fires on you and you try to neutralize threat your at fault cause they fired from civilian area? For me all blood on hands of aggressor in such a scenario. Tragic nonetheless, but to add to this, from what I read the idf does do robo calls; drop leaflets and sometimes use a dummy bomb first (a dud that makes noise to warn people) to reduce this.

[jasonlol 154]

Don't doubt, just read the UN reports and the American news regarding the civilian casualties. And go back and read the thread, no one votes for Hamas. I think I know much more about what is going on in Egypt than you do. Simply because the western media does not report much. And no, the blood is not on Hamas, it is as equally on Hamas as it is on the IDF.

http://ari.convio.net/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6418

This was written in 02 but this explains the philosophy im coming from when it comes to war. (not a long read)

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

im not accusing you of supporting hamas(im well aware of your correct opposition to such a group). and yes you do know more about egypt than I do, and we will just have to disagree on last point. Like the way I see it is if you say its idf fault as well; thats saying that if someone fires on you and you try to neutralize threat your at fault cause they fired from civilian area? For me all blood on hands of aggressor in such a scenario. Tragic nonetheless, but to add to this, from what I read the idf does do robo calls; drop leaflets and sometimes use a dummy bomb first (a dud that makes noise to warn people) to reduce this.

I think Cholou posted this video and you have missed it. Here is how they are being warned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VheYOMyjTg0

This was also reported on different medias.

You can blame hamas for being fanatics, extremists, radicals, terrorists, stubborn or whatever. But you can't ignore the ones who pull the trigger buddy.

FYI: The Egyptian government hates Hamas and holds it responsible and just issued a new statement with this regards. And as for us Egyptian citizens, we hate them too since the days of Mubarak, when they used to snipe our soldiers who had no contact with them.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

http://ari.convio.net/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6418

This was written in 02 but this explains the philosophy im coming from when it comes to war. (not a long read)

Please don't do that. This throws away your arguement. Talking about Iraq and Afghanistan and Bush. Even American soldiers realize it was a failure and unethical.

[jasonlol 154]

Please don't do that. This throws away your arguement. Talking about Iraq and Afghanistan and Bush. Even American soldiers realize it was a failure and unethical.

it wasn't justifying the war; it was saying how you fight a war. Use it 4 the illustration.

[jasonlol 154]

I think Cholou posted this video and you have missed it. Here is how they are being warned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VheYOMyjTg0

This was also reported on different medias.

You can blame hamas for being fanatics, extremists, radicals, terrorists, stubborn or whatever. But you can't ignore the ones who pull the trigger buddy.

FYI: The Egyptian government hates Hamas and holds it responsible and just issued a new statement with this regards. And as for us Egyptian citizens, we hate them too since the days of Mubarak, when they used to snipe our soldiers who had no contact with them.

well that dud rocket is better than nothing, but the point I was making is idf is justified in netralizing launch sites or suspected holding sites regardless wether it takes warning measures.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

it wasn't justifying the war; it was saying how you fight a war. Use it 4 the illustration.

I understand perfectly, but I wouldn't refer to a failure of a war as an illustration guide. We do have casualties in Sinai btw. Casualties are going to happen. But you can approach it through controlled operations using your intelligence and military force to make it as minimal as possible. Even the families of the fallen innocent civilians understand that and are still helping out. We have killed captured much more terrorists than we have killed innocent civilians through precise tactical operations. Not just bombing the crap out of people living in Sinai. We have Hamas, Alqaeda, Ansar bayt el Makdes and other militant groups. Some are Egyptians, some are Palestinians some are Sudanese, some are Syrian and some from other nationalities. We don't have the technology Israel has. We don't get annually 30 billion dollars like Israel gets. Our economy are bad, yet we have more awareness of the value of human life as a military and we are tactically efficient. I am quiet sure Israel can do the same if it chooses to. What is the point of technology and intelligence if you can't use them properly?

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

well that dud rocket is better than nothing, but the point I was making is idf is justified in netralizing launch sites or suspected holding sites regardless wether it takes warning measures.

That is just inhuman.